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RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 5:46:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
I do need to be treated like a fellow human being who is worthy of caring, consideration and respect . The way I usually ask to be treated is like a friend, which may seem counterintuitive to some male subs who want to get to know a dominant woman. But that's the "getting to know you" type of relationship that works for me.

PS - anyone who is calling professional dommes "two bit whores" and stating that women are not capable of love is revealing far more about himself and his emotional issues than about women or pro dommes.

righty. do you feel like you need to be treated as a fellow human being that needs to pick up the check every other time ?

You seem to fixate on "courting" meaning the same thing as paying for things, wining and dining, etc. Sure, that might be ONE form of it, but in reality, it's about intent. Someone *investing* in their interest in another person and demonstrating that interest and affection. For a rich guy it's far easier to send materialistic things - but it might not be sincere. For a poor guy, a hand written note, a cd of her favorite songs, or something that shows he is paying attention and cares -- THAT is courting.

I've been the "financial superior" (for lack of a better word) in every one of my relationships, and I have been courted by the best of them. It's not about cash flow or how much they spent, it's about how they made an effort to show they are pursuing me and would like to get to know me.

Ever heard of writing a poem? Not even by email, even? But actually on a piece of paper?

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 6:23:10 PM

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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

There are very few businesses that cater as EXACTLY to customer specs as Pro Dommes.

It's a wonderful alternative for toppers from the bottom-most free Fem doms would bounce your ass to the curb for doing that.

\
Medicine for one. Orthotics.. Space travel..

(in reply to Frank01)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 6:54:52 PM

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exactly why people seek out pros. when you can find what you need in the free dommes you can always get it by paying for someone give you what you desire.....nothing wrong with that. As long as it makes you happy it's money well spent.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 6:57:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
You seem to fixate on "courting" meaning the same thing as paying for things,

to be fair, i seem to fixate on "femdoms for hire" as the same thing as paying for things. which, i hold, it is.

now, to reciprocate. spare me the stories about hand scribbled poems you inspired. tell me instead, how many did you send ? just to show that you made an effort, to show you'd like to get to know 'em.

but anyway, the gist of the question remains.

men dominate for free and women dominate for a fee. does this show a lack of the female eros, or not ? and if not, why not ?

< Message edited by zenofeller -- 9/29/2006 7:03:02 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:03:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
righty. do you feel like you need to be treated as a fellow human being that needs to pick up the check every other time ?

Depends completely on the dynamics of the situation and the individual. In the past, I've primarily been in D/s relationships where I strongly preferred to be the one paying for everything, because I'm the domme and that was the dynamic. Aakasha will remember those years; I was pretty adamant about that philosophy at one time.

A few years later I got burned by a situation where I felt that my desire to be the dominant provider and caretaker was taken advantage of in a way that made me feel very uncomfortable. I lost some of my taste for this dynamic and started negotiating who paid for what in a way that didn't empty my pocketbook in unfair proportions or set me up for domme abuse. For instance, I might insist on buying all of a sub's clothes (other than his business wardrobe), but he might always be the one picking up the check when we went to dinner. He might drive us places and pay for the gas and food, while I would pick up hotel costs and event admission. Or vice versa; doesn't really matter as long as each side of the split fits each person's budget.

If the sub in question was a broke student then I'd step up to assume a much bigger share of the financial responsibility. If the sub in question made a lot more than I did, I would expect him to pick up a bigger share of the tab for things we did together. Usually I date subs who are more or less on the same or slightly lower income level as me, so it ends up as maybe a 30-70 to 40-60 split with me spending slightly more on him than he does on me.

Now, if a guy has a lot more disposable income than me and is not willing to spend as much of it as I am on the fun things we do together, I'm going to be very annoyed. I really don't mind picking up more of the tab for someone who is genuinely giving what he has to give, even if financially that is a very small amount. But someone who is stingy with what he does have, whether that is money, time, energy or affection, is a whole different ballpark.

I'd also have a problem dating a guy who was broke because of significant personal failings in character and work ethic. I'm just not into guys who are not mature, responsible, self supporting adults. Been there done that, not going there again. Wouldn't matter if I had millions of dollars to throw around; I still wouldn't want to spend my time with a guy who couldn't keep his own shit reasonably together.

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:07:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
now, to reciprocate. spare me the stories about hand scribbled poems you inspired. tell me instead, how many did you send ? just to show that you made an effort, to show you'd like to get to know 'em.

Quite a few actually. But I don't generally get inspired enough by a complete stranger to write them a poem or a song. It takes a bit more time to get to know someone well enough to write something that is genuinely for and about them. But yes, I do it.

quote:

men dominate for free and women dominate for a fee. does this show a lack of the female eros, or not ? and if not, why not ?

Er, let me introduce you to some of the pro male doms I know. They do exist; their clientele is overwhelmingly male.

Males who reproduce indiscriminately maximize their chances for genetic survival. Females who reproduce indiscriminately minimize them. The female drive for sex is not necessarily less powerful than that of the male. It is merely more discriminating of evolutionary necessity.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 9/29/2006 7:08:59 PM >

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:11:15 PM

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In the past, I ran a Dominatrix business. I handpicked a half-dozen
Dommes. I interviewed hundreds upon hundreds.   I placed want
ads in legitimate publications.  Very few had any interest in bdsm.
Those who did have an interest, actually preferred to be subs and
bottoms in their real relationships.

The vast majority would rather suck and fuck than whip a guy.   They
all just cared about money, and nothing else, unless they had a
drug or alcohol addiction. They all had selfish, miserable personalities.
A few were gay.

Pro Dommes see themselves as giving their johns pleasure or
fullfiling their sexual or emotional needs.   They are there for one
purpose and one purpose only to satisfy their client's sexual
needs and make the maximum amount of money possible from
their client's sexual needs.  They get nothing at all from being
sadistic, from whiping guys, from torturing guys, from any of
it. It is all nasty to them, and just a job like raking leaves or
shoveling snow. They get less than zero sexual gratification
from it, and think of their clients as sick perverts. If my clientelle
knew how Pro Dommes viewed what they did, they would never
go to them.   I've often had business dinners with five or six
Pro Dommes, and hear how they talk shop.

I am also friends with the owner of a very famous Pro Domme
establishment, and for the most part their Pro Dommes are
no different.  They are just women looking to make a fast buck
from men's sexual needs. They have zero interest in bdsm.

Every single one of the Pro Dommes I have ever known have
just cared about one thing in their entire lives: "money. " Their
sessions were all about how to make the most money. There
was less than zero interest in the bdsm aspect to it.

The fact that Pro Dommes are only interested in torturing
men they care about, like and love speaks volumes. If your main
interest was in causing pain and being a sadist, you wouldn't
care who the sub was.   If Dommes really got pleasure from
sexual sadism, it is my opinion they would rather inflict severe
unwanted pain on child molestors and sex offenders than
someone they really cared about.

Dommes know subs enjoy being flogged, so they see
themselves as a source of giving an alternative form of
pleasure, not really inflicting unwanted pain

Below you will find the typical hooker mentality, that Johns are
"suckers."  Hookers see themselvs as getting back at Johns by taking
their money.   Many survivors of sexual abuse become prostitutes
to get back at men. They get pleasure by taking money from
them. This is what turns them on.   They fantasize they are taking
financial advantage of their johns, just like johns fantasize they
are giving hookers sexual satisfaction. Actually, some hookers
do like sex.  I know this because I am platonic friends with a few
hookers. I really think they each should write a book.

Most hookers figure money for sex is a waste of money because
sex is just a useless need, that men get nothing out of it except
filling their need.    They view sex as a drug, and see themselves
as heroin dealers selling heroin to heroin users. They see
Johns as fish caught on a line.

They see johns as pathetic victims of their own sexual appetites.
They also get off on controlling men, and conning them. Many
figure out how to separate men from their money without having to
do anything. It is a game with them, to "get over" on men,
because many men in their past got over on them, and stole
their appetite for sex. Pro-Dommes are just business women.
As far as they are concerned there really is no sexual aspect
to what they are doing. They get less than zero sexual
gratification from it. They get as much sexual excitement
from what they do as nurses get from sticking cathetors
up some strange old man's penis.

On the other hand, I've been able to find a few females
who really enjoy torturing men, and will do what Pro-Dommes
do for next to nothing. In fact, I've found these females are
much better than Pro-Dommes in every respect. I've found
these females by going through thousands, but there is one
small catch.

Just one question (maybe two) for the guys...
Could it be that women have figured out your weak spot and therefore have the control in this matter?
The ONE thing a woman has to her advantage is your needs.  All males have them.. the tall, small, bald, hairy, fat, and skinny.
Your "needs" created the market.  How you want things to be handled (i.e. the "no strings" concept).. created the market.
It's your ideal- Women know that and.once again.... YOU have created the market. I see pros as business women. We can't overpower you.. but we have learned to outsmart you. And understanding human nature and what drives it is the cornerstone of marketing. Ever look up the Psychic Sylvia Browne's site? Or Sonia Fitzpatrick's pet communicator's site?  I think I understand the Pros better now reading these threads and seeing the guy's laments and why. I COULD NOT do their job.   The energy drain from you guys must be horrendous. The OP was very well written. But it leaves me to ask:  What then is your PERFECT scenario?

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/29/2006 7:35:15 PM >

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(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:14:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
You seem to fixate on "courting" meaning the same thing as paying for things,

to be fair, i seem to fixate on "femdoms for hire" as the same thing as paying for things. which, i hold, it is.

now, to reciprocate. spare me the stories about hand scribbled poems you inspired. tell me instead, how many did you send ? just to show that you made an effort, to show you'd like to get to know 'em.

but anyway, the gist of the question remains.

men dominate for free and women dominate for a fee. does this show a lack of the female eros, or not ? and if not, why not ?

I have courted, in a huge way, many men. That includes everything from writing things to them to sending surprises in the mail to whisking them away for the weekend unexpectedly. Some things cost money, others did not. Do you want me to give you lists? I'm sure you would think I made it up. Fortunately, the last ten years of my life have been chronicled on my web site and my courting rituals are documented there.

While my approach is far more geared toward "seduction" vs. "courting" (sending of flowers, silly romantic gestures), it includes lots of that; however, men tend to respond better to gestures that are less flowery than women. I have a long history of giving men *food* as a romantic gesture, rather than roses. It just works better, is more appreciated, and less embarrassing.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:25:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

In the past, I ran a Dominatrix business. I handpicked a half-dozen
Dommes. I interviewed hundreds upon hundreds.   I placed want
ads in legitimate publications.  Very few had any interest in bdsm.
Those who did have an interest, actually preferred to be subs and
bottoms in their real relationships.

The vast majority would rather suck and fuck than whip a guy.   They
all just cared about money, and nothing else, unless they had a
drug or alcohol addiction. They all had selfish, miserable personalities.
A few were gay.

Yeah, yeah. And I have met many, many femdoms who were lifestylers, and enjoyed what they did

You admit right up front YOU hired them, YOU interviewed hundreds and hundreds, and YOU employed them. Gee, why not seek out addicted, money hungry "whores" who would bring in more cash for you, vs. women who liked what they did, did not have a habit to support, but did not make as much cash?

Sort of makes sense who you went after to bring in the bucks, doesn't it? It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Also, the type of ad, and what YOU have to offer will impact the type of people you attract. Your personality here and reputation lead me to believe that you attracted dysfunctional people, and sometimes intentionally.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:29:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

In the past, I ran a Dominatrix business. I handpicked a half-dozen
Dommes. I interviewed hundreds upon hundreds. I placed want
ads in legitimate publications. Very few had any interest in bdsm.
Those who did have an interest, actually preffered to be subs and
bottoms in their real relationships.

I used to own a dungeon too. The ladies who came to work for me who met your description were asked to go work somewhere else.   We couldn't have that type of energy in our House.

The closest thing we had to an operations manual would be Spider Robinson's Callahan books, specifically the ones about Lady Sally's Place. Folks who have read them will understand. Folks who don't, should.

I'm truly sorry you agreed to employ people who didn't like their clients, didn't like what they did with their clients, and by definition probably didn't like themselves much either. There are unhealthy people in the sex industry for all the wrong reasons. It really is possible to sift through them and to find the people who can create a House with a heart.   At one point owning a professional dungeon and making effective career moves became incompatible and I had to pass it on, but I miss the extended family that was born there. The caring and acceptance that place had for everyone who passed through its doors as client, employee or friend was incredible. We liked ourselves, we liked our clients and we liked what we did together. That made for a very positive atmosphere.

The ethical pro domme is not just a sex worker, but a healer, a shaman, a priestess and a counsellor of sorts. Part of the job is to model a healthy, happy acceptance of alternative sexuality and to send clients home feeling genuinely better about themselves and their sexuality.   Some very good things happened at that House both for the BDSM community and for a lot of individual people who experienced positive personal growth, healing and self-acceptance.   I'm very proud of what we did there and always will be. And no, I'm not doing it any more, as my primary career no longer leaves me the leisure time (or political advisability, in this state) to do anything else.

I can't say as I ever *needed* to work in the adult industry to make a living. I have a good education and extensive specialty skills in my professional field. But it surely was fun and rewarding to own a dungeon and do some sessions. All of the ladies who were allowed to work out of my space, no exceptions, had to be in the same boat as me - well educated, employable in the mainstream sense, genuinely involved in the BDSM lifestyle and community, and looking for fun and adventure in a safe woman-owned BDSM space. Drugs and alcohol were absolutely out of the question on the premises. I had no problems whatsoever finding such ladies to populate my dungeon.

Geography probably has something to do with it as I was in a major metropolitan area noted for its liberal freethinkers, but who you are personally as the owner of the House also has a lot to do with the kind of people you attract to work for you. Just something to think about.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 9/29/2006 7:43:50 PM >

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:32:02 PM

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From: Indianapolis, Indiana
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For "WhipTheHip: You posted this same exact story before (although it's become slightly lengthier and more bitter). You obviously hate pro dommes, but yet still brag about running a service that YOU put together with dommes YOU hand picked. You hated their company sooo much that you went out to dinner with them and talked in great detail about their private life. YOU feel the customers were getting ripped off the entire time, yet YOU continued to run the business and rake in the profits. Sounds to me like YOU hold waaay more culpibility than your "employees" did.
Mistress Scarlet
And yes, I do enjoy my job VERY much thank you.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:36:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I have courted, in a huge way, many men. That includes everything from writing things to them to sending surprises in the mail to whisking them away for the weekend unexpectedly. Some things cost money, others did not. Do you want me to give you lists? I'm sure you would think I made it up.

no, i wouldn't think you made it up necessarily. i run my own veracity tests, and they aren't a variation of "contradiction must be a lie". shocking, isn't it.
so, i'll take your word for it without reservations, but do observe that what we were discussing originally wasn't women that seduce men, it's women that charge them.

quote:

While my approach is far more geared toward "seduction" vs. "courting" (sending of flowers, silly romantic gestures), it includes lots of that; however, men tend to respond better to gestures that are less flowery than women. I have a long history of giving men *food* as a romantic gesture, rather than roses. It just works better, is more appreciated, and less embarrassing.

so, chocolate over roses. interestingly enough, my experience points the same way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
Wouldn't matter if I had millions of dollars to throw around; I still wouldn't want to spend my time with a guy who couldn't keep his own shit reasonably together.

we are starting to come to an understanding then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
Males who reproduce indiscriminately maximize their chances for genetic survival. Females who reproduce indiscriminately minimize them. The female drive for sex is not necessarily less powerful than that of the male. It is merely more discriminating of evolutionary necessity.

not a bad point, except a few things

firstly, there's no good reason to be driven by "evolutionary necessity". in a sense, civilisation is nothing more than diverging from evolutionary necessity. like, for instance, the evolutionary necessity of killing rivals and abusing weaklings.

secondly, i wasn't discussing sex per se. i was discussing erotics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip
In the past, I ran a Dominatrix business. I handpicked a half-dozen Dommes. I interviewed hundreds upon hundreds.

allow me to be skeptical.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: The problem with pro Femdom - 9/29/2006 7:37:42 PM

Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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No one has yet addressed the last question in my post..

"What do men consider the perfect scenario then? If a woman is not to make a living and you don't want to court.. you don't want to put any effort other than getting what you want done to you with no strings..

Really.. What's the ideal for you? (addressing the guys here)

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:41:00 PM

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Shrugs, the funniest part of this is that the femdoms see this as something unique to them. There are plenty of female submissive types who do not care one wit who is beating them. You see them around all of the time, jumping from Dom to Dom just trying to get their fix of what they want.

ProDoms?, it should be ProSubmissives instead. No matter how you try and slice it or pretty it up, you get paid X to do Y, try doing Z instead and see how quick things turn.

But in the end who cares? Certaintly not I, if someone wants to pay you to (insert kink here) collect his money and go on with life.

K

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: The problem with pro Femdom - 9/29/2006 7:41:38 PM

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the ideal, quite simply, would be a woman that doesn't expect. in general, i find the less people expect, the more palatable they are.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: The problem with pro Femdom - 9/29/2006 7:54:37 PM

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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

the ideal, quite simply, would be a woman that doesn't expect. in general, i find the less people expect, the more palatable they are.

So I take it we are to just be in awe and bask in the male's glory and go home. He is not to expect us to care about him or desire him for sex.. interesting concept. That's what you sort of make it sound like.. Please be more specific. Give me an example of your "perfect date" Where no one expects anything.

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro Femdom - 9/29/2006 7:55:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

the ideal, quite simply, would be a woman that doesn't expect. in general, i find the less people expect, the more palatable they are.

Well, that's the crux of the matter really.

I'm dominant. You're submissive. Our session will consist of you painting my house, handing over all your money, and leaving. Oh wait, is that unpalatable to you? Do you actually have expectations that you should also get something you want and need out of an interaction with another person? Why yes, as a matter of fact you probably do.

Everyone has expectations, and part of learning basic social skills is figuring out how to negotiate with other people so that both of your expectations are at least minimally met in an interaction. Some people may have unrealistic or unfair expectations of other people. Eg, "I want you to dress in sexy clothes and DO ME, right now, exactly the way I wanna get done." Or, "I want a slave who will serve me with no-strings housework, give me all his money and then go away." Unrealistic expectations. Until these people learn to wake up to the fact that other people have expectations and basic needs also, they probably won't get any of what they want since they do not have the skills to fairly negotiate for it.

Realistic and reasonable expectations are healthy and normal. In my opinion, a healthy BDSM relationship is very much based on honest communication and negotiation, and on the needs and desires of two people, no matter which one of them is the dominant. If your relationship or your immediate interaction does not meet BOTH of your needs and expectations, it's going to fail. That's just how it works for human beings in real life.

The fantasy of course is the ideal domme who has no expectations of the sub and exists only to fulfill his fantasies, or the ideal sub who has no expectations of the domme and who exists only to fulfill her fantasies. But ya know what....neither of these mythical creatures actually exists, and what we have left is human beings who need to learn how to negotiate and communicate with each other in the real world.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 9/29/2006 7:56:47 PM >

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 7:58:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Yeah, yeah. And I have met many, many femdoms who were lifestylers, and enjoyed what they did

You are allowed to have a different experience than me. By the way, you
didn't say if they were ProDommes or not.

quote:

> You admit right up front YOU hired them, YOU interviewed hundreds and hundreds, and
> YOU employed them. Gee, why not seek out addicted, money hungry "whores" who
> would bring in more cash for you, vs. women who liked what they did, did not have a
> habit to support, but did not make as much cash?

Huh????? You must have misread what I wrote. I picked out the ones
most interested in bdsm, because that is what my clientelle sought. I
didn't open and run the business to make money, I opened and
ran the business to see if I could find any sadistic females. I
opened and ran the business as an experiment to see if any
female would show up that really had an interest in bdsm. I took
a very small percentage from each session, an amount which didn't
even cover the cost of my want ads.

quote:

> Sort of makes sense who you went after to bring in the bucks, doesn't it?
> It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Hmmmmmm. LOL. I guess you sure hit the nail on the
head this time.

By the way, I was a rocket scientist in my junior high school days
to the everlasting dismay of all my science teachers. In 7th
grade, I launced a rocket from one side of our science lab
to the other. It took two minutes to gain enough power to
shoot across the room. During that time, it set the wood
floor on fire even though it was facing sideways away from
the floor. All the students stood ducking below the lab tables.
The whole school had to be evacuated as it filled the entire
school with smoke. The next time they made me launch
the rocket outside in the school yard, but it just blew-up on
the launch pad, and made a big crater in the outdoor
concrete school basketball court. This made me very
popular with the jocks.

I used to build three-stage rockets from scratch.

I seem to have had better luck than N. Korea's "Howe Long Dong"
Or is his name Sun Man Moon? I always get confused. Or is it
Kim Jong Dong Silver?

Who do you sue when your dong gets dinged?

quote:

> Also, the type of ad, and what YOU have to offer will impact the type
> of people you attract.

"Do you think you would enjoy whipping the crap out of
naked men?"

"Would you like to work as a Dominatrix?"

quote:

> Your personality here and reputation lead me to believe that you
> attracted dysfunctional people, and sometimes intentionally.

Right! You sound like a wonderful person yourself.

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/29/2006 8:46:00 PM >

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RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 8:02:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
what we were discussing originally wasn't women that seduce men, it's women that charge them.

Shall we also discuss authors that charge for their books? Surely if you were a Real Writer, and truly loved the craft of being a writer, you would not be so shamefully charging money to your readers?

Now what was that you were calling pro dommes? Two bit whores? What, then, is an author who sells his creative erotic work?

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/29/2006 8:18:33 PM

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From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

I think the original post was great. I think there have been some interesting responses.

As suggested, there are two aspects, the personal and the professional. Chefs still have to eat, carpenters still need chairs to sit in, and Pro-Dommes still need men in their life.

Without going into the why, there simply are a lot more submissive men seeking the company of dominant women, which is no different than men seeking sex without love. The role of dominant women, thus, is often turned into a 'supply/demand' interaction - there is nothing emotional about it, nor should there. Many of the men who are seeking the services of a dominatrix are doing so to fulfill a fantasy that their lover or spouse will not, cannot, or (in their minds) should not. This interaction may fall under the heading of BDSM, but it isn't even remotely related to the relationships that we tend to discuss, analyze, and tear apart on these forums. Quite simply put, Domination Professionals relationships are no more similar to Ds than an escort is similar to a girlfriend. The facade of lumping Professionals and their issues with those in committed relationships is pretty thin.

Of course, the caveat is that professional Dominas sometimes are, in fact, in personal relationships as a Dominant. My own introduction was at the hands of as woman who worked as a Dominatrix, yet also dated submissive men on occasion. She very clearly drew the line between 'friends' and 'clients.' Thus, she thought nothing of placing an advertisement in the yellow pages for her business, yet sharing a bed with a slave. She attended conferences and gatherings for personal enjoyment, and met potential clients there for professional advancement. This intermingling of the two lives sometimes became a tightrope for her, emotionally, but I don't think it ever occurred to her to either separate the two.

This addresses the observations of the FemDom. The OP was quite insightful into the (mis) perceptions of the submissive male, but didn't address the whole host of common mental and psychological baggage that many submissives (especially males, in my experience) tend to carry. This isn't to say that all subs are walking nutcases, but I know that if I had to go through some of the routines that I've seen submales go through, I would already be half crazy by the time I found a Domme that worked for me.

quote:

the ideal, quite simply, would be a woman that doesn't expect. in general, i find the less people expect, the more palatable they are.

Sorry, this doesn't work for me. A person who doesn't expect anything in their life generally bore me. If you don't know where you're going, you never get there. People without dreams, goals, aspirations, and expectations are just plain dull.

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

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