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RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/30/2006 4:49:00 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
hehehehe. professionals eh ? im pretty sure i got better tools than them].


Better than somebody with a doctorate in psychology?  We had not one but two of those working as part time pro dommes at my dungeon.  One of them finished her thesis on the premises and it was published very successfully indeed. 

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/30/2006 6:55:37 PM   
cynthiamarie


Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
Status: offline
quote:

men dominate for free and women dominate for a fee. does this show a lack of the female eros, or not ? and if not, why not ?


*Remembers all the males who have approached with a demanding list of how they wanted to be topped...men who had invested no time nor emotion in me at all, wanted a quick BDSM fix and some sex (out of luck there, laughs) and then no more contact for a month or two or whenever they felt like another fix.*  What's love got to do with THAT?  Are you implying Female Dominats have to respond with love and lust to every male sub who sends an online message and says, "hello, I'm tom, dick, or harry and I expect you to top me, tonight if possible" or else there is something deficient in our hearts or souls?  More of us would want to top for "eros" if that were actually part of the equasion.   Btw, anyone treating me like I'm some kind of programmable whore puppet pisses me off.

Many have approached me with money and I've turned all down, so let's not go into the poor men who have to pay...many do so to set limits on the Domme and make it clear that no real submission will be offered.  Recently someone who was mine in the past wanted the added kink of being "made" to pay for it.  I wanted to beat him when he told me that and started dictating how the scene should go; he was trying to turn a p/t relationship into a product he could take control over.

Money can be something people hide behind, and used to set limits.  Ones who need to do this are welcomed to do so, but they need to seek out Pro-Dommes, and leave the rest of us alone. 

If these "customers" are victims of unfairness of equality between the sexes, how come so many approach me wanting to be serviced, waving money in front of my face or wanting to buy me things instead of wanting a genuine D/s relationship and friendship?  I have never offered Pro-Domme services, yet these "victims"  of mercenary women are trying to convert more Dommes into going Pro. 

Due to the evidence of my own eyes, I agree that men created this market.  When it's a service they're looking for, I dislike to see whining that the services aren't for free and that it's soooo unfair to male customers. 

Feminism would be great if all things could actually be equal, including sexual drives and who pays for what during courting...but until I see pregnant men walking around  and it being the norm for men to be passed over for promotions because they have to put their kids and families first, I won't be the one picking up the tab for restaurants and motels. 

Yeah, I'm burned out again and taking some down time.  If it weren't for certain submissive men I think highly of, I'd accept all the ones trying to use me like a commodity as the rule and walk right out of the lifestyle and never look back. 

*Goes back to reading the posts in this thread*

edited when finished reading to say...
happy birthday, WhipTheHip.   (I hope there's a nice sadistic Domme friend in your area to give you your birthday beating.)  

< Message edited by cynthiamarie -- 9/30/2006 7:45:52 PM >

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/30/2006 9:04:57 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthiamarie
If these "customers" are victims of unfairness of equality between the sexes, how come so many approach me wanting to be serviced, waving money in front of my face or wanting to buy me things instead of wanting a genuine D/s relationship and friendship?  I have never offered Pro-Domme services, yet these "victims"  of mercenary women are trying to convert more Dommes into going Pro. 


In the years I owned a dungeon, my ideal outcome for a client was for him to "graduate" to a being BDSM community member with enough social and negotiation skills to be able to attract (and hopefully keep) a partner.  I counted it a great success when a client "graduated" and found himself some play partners or a regular D/s relationship.   We did a lot of active community recruiting in that dungeon, with flyers for local community organizations and events in every room.

Guess how successful we weren't with the majority of our client base. That's right.  They didn't *want* relationships, they didn't want partners and they didn't want to come to Munches and play parties and workshops and fetish flea markets to meet people on a social or friendly basis.   We introduced them around very happily for free when they did want those things, but mostly they didn't.  They wanted their kink to stay in a neatly compartmentalized part of their lives.  They did not want to share any part of their real lives or offer a hand in friendship.  By their choice, the transaction was limited to their money for our time and skill.  We respected those limits as well, but made it clear that more was waiting when the client was ready.

My choice for each and every one of them would have been to freely offer an introduction to the local BDSM community and a chance to find a play partner or a D/s relationship.  I would never have withheld that from anyone, and I was always really delighted when some timid soul would finally agree to "come out:" with me to a Munch.  I was invited to more than one wedding and collaring during those years as a result. 

I cannot think of a single time when anyone's free offer of friendship and service to our House was refused.  Money was not the only coin accepted there by any means.  Friendship and support of the local BDSM community was very good currency with us.  But it was a currency much more rarely offered. 

(in reply to cynthiamarie)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/30/2006 9:09:16 PM   
Frank01


Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		I think I'm going to wise up, and just ignore these drama threads in the future.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/30/2006 9:13:13 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

I think I'm going to wise up, and just ignore these drama threads in the future.


LOL good idea, they really aren't even worth the extra number that they add to your posts

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to Frank01)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 9/30/2006 10:39:19 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

For the love of god, could we please have a moratorium on Pro threads?

All in favor say "I". 




I agree. I have yet to figure out how to answer one of these threads without pissing somebody off. The whole thread has, as usual, gone so off center from the OPs original post that it now seems as if it's stating something along the lines of "Post your choice of whether you HATE pro dommes, or whether you (to be honest, I don't know what the other extreme has been cause it hasn't really made a lot of sense in this thread)."

I'm a little different than the norm on this whole thing. I don't care that there are pro dommes out there. Good for them if they're making a living off of it. I don't dislike them, and over the years I've been friends with, and sometimes even a slave to, them. I don't get upset when a lot of women into bdsm charge money. I just don't get involved with a lot of those women, mainly because I don't think I have much to offer them. These types of arguments get really bogged down in old arguments that people have been having for years, and every time you interact with people having THOSE arguments, somehow you have to answer for decades of commentary that you've never made or even heard.

For me, I'm a lot more evasive on what I'm seeking these days because at least in the mind of this submissive things have really changed over the last decade, and I still haven't figured out how. I just know that looking for someone is much more of a hostile experience than ever before, and quite often I relegate myself to writing another novel rather than get involved in the negativity that is so much of the community these days (if you can even call it a community anymore).

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/1/2006 7:19:37 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Sarbonn, I have just continued to adopt cute furry babies and finding humour in the human drama. Furry babies have ALOT Less Issues.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/1/2006 8:07:41 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		> *Remembers all the males who have approached
> with a demanding list of how they wanted to be
> topped...men who had invested no time nor emotion
> in me at all,
 
Most of my clientelle did not care were willing to be
topped any way, and were willing to do anything just
to be able to spend time with my Pro Dommes who
wanted nothing to do with these guys unless they
had lost of money to give them.  What surprised me
about my clientele was many of them were young,
and looked like they regularly worked out in a gym.
They drove expensive cars, and dressed neatly.
 
If male tops had the attitudes of ProDommes or
even many non-Pro Dommes, they would not get
a single female bottom or sub.   
 
Obviously, I can't speak for every pro and non-Pro
Domme.
 
 

_____________________________



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 1:30:10 AM   
Mistressnfantasy


Posts: 20
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		well as a pro domme ..Im happy to do it for free.... as long as you bring all the toys and equipment and leave them here for me to use for future "free" clients as at the moment the equipment has cost me more than 10,000 and im still building up more equipment...... the problem with you 'want it for free clients "is you want ust to be elle mc pherson ..with 20000 worth of equipment and nothing else better to do with our lives but do unprotected play sessions with you any time of the day or night and know all the bd plays (a lifetime of knowledge) yet do it just for you for free..... Id love to see you agree to fix someones car for free... or their plumbing or build their house for that matter

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 1:34:47 AM   
Mistressnfantasy


Posts: 20
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		the real problem wirth submissives trhat want everything for free is that they dont realize how much money it costs to get all of the equipment and how long it takes to learn every single fetish in the bd scene... I think they believe we are elle mc phersons with no bills to pay and just there for them day and night waiting to fulfill their fantasies for their pleasure.. at the moment i have 10000 worth of ciostumes and equipment and rising....Id like to see them fix my car or build my house for free.....

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 3:52:04 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		I could be wrong, but when did bdsm become about having $10000 worth of shit?
Damn I and many others better bdsm quit now...

Iskander...






(in reply to Mistressnfantasy)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 4:48:09 AM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline 		Nothing amuses me more than the agenda-driven bile of people who argue against ANY form of "prostitution".  It never seems to occur to the Pro-Domme Hate Club that domination is an art form, and that by paying a dominatrix they are supporting her art.

Guess what, folks:  leather costs money.  Toys cost money.  Corsets, heels, every kind of fantasy clothing costs HUGE money.  Dungeon equipment costs money.  Keeping your hair, nails, skin, and body in perfect condition takes a lot of time and money.  There is no woman on the face of the earth who has the time and the money to maintain herself as an fantasy ideal of physical/sexual perfection unless someone pays her to do it.  I don't give a damn if she's a model, and actress, a dominatrix or a professional athlete--she needs to be supported by a community of people who appreciate her or it is not possible for her to exist.

If you hate pro-dommes?  Go ahead and hate actors, models, television commentators of both sexes as well.  Hell, pour your ridiculous bile on the people who play football, basketball and other professional sports for your entertainment.  Hate the soldiers who need equipment, training and a salary to protect your sorry ass from enemies of the state, while you're at it.  Why should any of those people get paid for being exceptional or gifted?  Why should you support them while they maintain their physical and mental readiness, or pay for the job they do?  Why should they be able to make a living for the PRIVILEGE of doing something they love or believe in?  Those goddamn whores!

Lol...I don't get paid to domme, and have never sought a financial relationship with a sub, but that's not because I think there's anything wrong with it.  Quite frankly, it's because I don't have the time, the energy or the strength of character to devote myself to the profession.  Professional domination, by EITHER sex, takes all three in spades--plus a healthy measure of skill, experience and talent.  And being exceptional in the physical sense doesn't hurt either, from what I've seen.

--M

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 4:49:26 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iskander

I could be wrong, but when did bdsm become about having $10000 worth of shit?
Damn I and many others better bdsm quit now...


It isn't.

As a lifestyle domme, consider my perspective:

It is not unusual to be approached by boys who expect me to have a house and a dungeon filled to the rafters with toys and equipment that magickally coincide with all of their fetishes and have multiple thousand dollar outfits for me to wear that fit into their fantasies.  That type of scenario represents an investment of thousands of dollars...all of which should be laid out for their use with no personal or financial investment of their own. 

Fortunately there's quite a few subs out there with a far more realistic view of BDSM and relationships.  

The 10,000 isn't actually all that out of line.   If you add up what you spend in one year on lifestyle oriented materials - go to a couple munches, pay the dues to your local BDSM group, go to the local club a couple times, buy a few new toys or the materials to make them, buy a new book/magazine/DVD or two, go to a weekend convention, buy a corset or pair of shoes or splurge on a new outfit while you're there - and multiply that by number of years in the lifestyle, it's easy to see how fast it adds up. 

Again - this is from  a completely lifestyle perspective.  

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 10/17/2006 5:01:53 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to Iskander)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 5:01:46 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

However, it is not unusual to be approached by boys who expect me to have a house and a dungeon filled to the rafters with toys and equipment that magickally coincide with all of their fetishes and have multiple thousand dollar outfits for me to wear that fit into their fantasies.  That type of scenario represents an investment of thousands of dollars...all of which should be laid out for their use with no personal or financial investment of their own.
 


I hear that! The "could you get me this? I'll pay you back later - and have it delivered to your house? (so my wife doesnt hear about it)", types annoy me too. Only made that mistake once - I say mistake, because these types turn up and dont pay you back, promising "next time" when of course there is no next time. The next time the situation came up (another person) and I refused to get it for them - they lost interest for some reason.

Admitted thats only two out of 3 billion males on the planet, but still, its a 100% record so far at least.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 5:23:56 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Edited because I didn't realize this was an old thread and I had already put my two cents in.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 10/17/2006 5:27:24 AM >

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 5:40:12 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		Excellent post, one that needed to be told I think...
I did think along those lines when I wrote my earlier tongue in cheek post, and the other thing I was thinking was, do you (general you) keep work items/inventory seperate from personal items used in personal relationships...
Which is where the thought of 'well playing with someone doesn't need to have all those costs involved' comes from...
But I imagine that would be hard to do when  your  image is your life or vv...

Regardless, I'm only posting out of curiosity, and don't understand what all the fuss is about. It shits me that I can't get a woman to come clean my house once a week for free (since mum stopped that over a decade ago), but I wont be starting any angry threads about pro cleaners...

Iskander...


(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 5:49:54 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistressnfantasy
Id love to see you agree to fix someones car for free... or their plumbing or build their house for that matter

 
I fix people's car for free.  Last night a stranger fixed my car for free.  I fix plumbing for free all the time.
No, I have ever built a house.   I find it a bit absurd that you would compare getting sexual pleasure for
free with building a house for free.   In fact, there is a difference between getting and giving sexual pleasure,
and working most other jobs.  That is why plumbers are not called prostitutes, because there is a big
difference between charging someone for installing a new sink, and charging them for mutual sexual
gratification.   
 
Actually, I am not against prostitution, nor am I against pro-dommes.  I feel sorry for them, because I
know they wouldn't be doing this if they hadn't been mistreated and abused by some male at some
point in their lives.   
 
The truth is most prostitutes don't enjoy sex, and most pro-dommes don't enjoy bdsm.  It is just a job
to them.  Why would anyone risk turning sexual burnout, if they didn't care about personal relationships?

_____________________________



(in reply to Mistressnfantasy)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 5:58:41 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline 		Thanks.

It's a little irritating to be told by those whose big investment in the lifestyle is spending lots of time online finding as many free BDSM oriented sites as possible that if a Domme so much as expects to be courted by a male sub including paying for dinner that we're somehow "just in this for the money".



_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to Iskander)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 6:09:59 AM   
gypsylee


Posts: 293
Joined: 9/18/2006
From: Melbournia, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

Actually, I am not against prostitution, nor am I against pro-dommes.  I feel sorry for them, because I know they wouldn't be doing this if they hadn't been mistreated and abused by some male at some point in their lives.    
 


are you serious?

_____________________________

You're one twisted fuck... Nup, I'm just an ordinary girl with nothin' to lose.


(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The problem with pro femdoms - 10/17/2006 6:15:04 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I fix people's car for free.  Last night a stranger fixed my car for free.  I fix plumbing for free all the time.
No, I have ever built a house.   I find it a bit absurd that you would compare getting sexual pleasure for
free with building a house for free.   In fact, there is a difference between getting and giving sexual pleasure,
and working most other jobs.  That is why plumbers are not called prostitutes, because there is a big
difference between charging someone for installing a new sink, and charging them for mutual sexual
gratification.   
 
Actually, I am not against prostitution, nor am I against pro-dommes.  I feel sorry for them, because I
know they wouldn't be doing this if they hadn't been mistreated and abused by some male at some
point in their lives.   
 
The truth is most prostitutes don't enjoy sex, and most pro-dommes don't enjoy bdsm.  It is just a job
to them.  Why would anyone risk turning sexual burnout, if they didn't care about personal relationships?


I am lost for words.

Maybe when I've calmed down

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 80
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