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Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 4:34:58 PM

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Joined: 8/21/2004
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In your experiences, what do you think drives someone to submission or slavery? Do you think some are born like that. Is it a learned behavior? Or something more?
Without sounding to tounge-in-cheek. I have found with me. It is something deeper. Like I am a wild animal that seeks to be tamed. It also feels like I am looking for a piece of divinity here on earth. Maybe that is why I seek a Mistress.
Thoughts on the subject?

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 4:49:07 PM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 23TampaMsub

In your experiences, what do you think drives someone to submission or slavery?

As many submissives and slaves that there are .. that's how many reasons there are.

quote:

Do you think some are born like that. Is it a learned behavior? Or something more?

Yes and no to all three of those questions. Some feel they are born and compelled, some don't. Some feel they learn it, some want to learn it to fulfill a sexual desire, others do not and for many, it is something much more and in asking them, they, themselves, cannot explain it to you.

quote:

Without sounding to tounge-in-cheek. I have found with me. It is something deeper. Like I am a wild animal that seeks to be tamed. It also feels like I am looking for a piece of divinity here on earth. Maybe that is why I seek a Mistress.

I don't think you sound tongue-in-cheek at all. You come across as very sincere and seem to be in touch with yourself.

quote:

Thoughts on the subject?

I know when I first started, I wanted it all 'now'. The thrills, the chills, the excitement, the mystery and it would have been nice to have it wrapped up in a nice big bow and brought to me by a dashing dom, but that's not the way things worked out. I was willing to settle for superficial and that's exactly what I got .. a couple of times in fact. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast doing it, but the one that lasted, the one which has gone long term, that took time and effort. It took a lot of patience and years of self-reflection and understanding before I found it. I'm a woman and I admit it's much easier for a woman to find than a man just because the odds are better for us, but don't give up hope and don't give up on yourself. Improve yourself for yourself and when the time is right, it will happen. In the meantime, have some fun, get involved in your local groups, offer to volunteer to work the parties whether as a monitor, target, what have you and network. Let it be known you are looking for someone. That's how I met Himself, through a friend, so tell your lifestyle friends and expand your network. Tampa is a huge area with lots of people in the lifestyle there. There are a lot of opportunities if you seek them out.

I wish you wellness and good fortune in your quest ... but do be patient.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to 23TampaMsub)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 6:53:26 PM

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Joined: 8/17/2006
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Patience is a virture, one very well liked by many Dom/Dommes ... learn it, live it, seek it, be it, feel it. If you find it inside yourself, what you seek will find you.

Did I say all that? *lol* ...

Anyways, find an IRL group and network. Everyone is very different. You may believe you were meant to be a slave, but after consideration and some IRL experience, you may see that a subbie is what you are. Everyone is different.

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 7:38:58 PM

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Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Hi, below are some of my inclinations.

Some like authority and discilpline (maybe they never had a mother/father figure or maybe they did and miss having that authoritive figure), some like control and structure (maybe they are not self-discilplined and need someone else to get them going), some like to let it all go and have someone else take over, some love to worship someone they idealize, some are Givers and feel complete when GIVING, some are VERY dominate in their vanilla lives and need a change, some like to be the center of attention, etc etc.

BTW, Dom and Dommes are giving people as well - they spend a lot of time, energy and thought into their subs. Bet you didnt know that! wink.

Anyway, not to digress ... I'm sure there are millions of reasons why someone likes to play or be the sub or slave role.

One thing to remember is just becuz a person submits behind closed doors, that doesn't necessarily mean they are submissive people.

I love to switch once in a while but I truly get my rocks off MORE in the Domme role.

(in reply to 23TampaMsub)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 7:53:57 PM

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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As a confirmed sub I just love to get a real beating at least once a month. Why, who knows ?
For some reason the Domme has to be a woman. I would never be a sub for another man. My impression is that most self styled "Masters" are frauds anyway. Self styled "Goddesses" are in the same league, as far as I am concerned. But I know that many subs do love to crawl and grovel, but these subs are usually scared stiff of pain. If that suits them , fine.
A good Domme knows how to make her session progress from warm up, to whips, and finally to the king of toys, the cane.
Trouble is many (most ) Dommes just dont know how to use the cane. After a really good hard caning, I feel ready to take my sore , bruised, butt back to the office and be the boss again. May be its some kind of atonement , perhaps.?
If anyone replies I'll be happy to post some guidlines on canes and caning .

(in reply to MistressDolly)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 8:04:10 PM

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Thank you legalbrit! I appreciate your interesting and enlightening input.

Ah yes, the cane is the queen of all toys, imo.

Yes, please send me some info on canes and canning, I would love that.

Get to it, cane slut!

(in reply to legalbrit)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/4/2006 11:38:13 PM

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: legalbrit
Trouble is many (most ) Dommes just dont know how to use the cane.

And how many dominas have you gone through to make this determination?

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to legalbrit)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 12:13:22 AM

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

This is from an article I wrote a few years back:

Why Submission by littlesarbonn

There are times when I find myself wondering why it is I became a submissive. There are even more times when I find myself wondering why it is I became a slave. Then there are even more times when I wonder how I could have ever thought of being anything but one or the other.

To put it simply, I've spent most of my life moving towards this type of relationship where I am owned by a woman whom I love very much. For years, I explored the ideas of S&M where I thought that the kinky aspect of it was the end all of everything I was looking for. I submitted to a good deal of woman before I finally figured out that just submitting meant very little to me if there wasn't someone to whom I was submitting who could use that submission in a way that would make me better for it in the long run.

Someone asked me recently if I could expand upon one of my statements when I mentioned that I was pretty much introduced to the concepts of servitude while attending the US Military Academy at West Point. At that time, I was a young man who was intending to serve his country and had miniscule thoughts of ever wanting to serve a woman in a D/s capacity. But as the forces of dominance are known to act, my cadet basic training squad leader (the person who pretty much controlled my entire life that first summer) was a woman who liked the idea that her position offered her a lot of power. As much as I would like to say that I started off as a star cadet, I couldn't be any further from the truth if I stated such. I was a pretty good mess up at the discipline thing and I seemed to get a perverse pleasure out of goofing off and getting in trouble when I should have been learning to follow orders and do the "cadet" thing. But I was a bit of a rebel, being from California and all (we automatically got a reputation from being from there, and my attitude probably didn't help any), so I was always getting into trouble with my squad leader, and I think she took a sinister pleasure in being the one who had to punish me, although it was almost always mentally because physical punishment was disallowed at this time in the Academy unless someone could really get away with it. I've given this situation a lot of thought, and I do remember she often spared me from a lot of punishments that could have been very disastrous to my natural state of affairs, and I can only assume that she did this because she either liked me, or she liked to make sure that I was still around so that she could harass me even further.

When I used to have to report to her room, a lot of the times she wasn't even there, so her two roomates took great pleasure in harrassing me until she did return, already used to seeing me all of the time. There was this box that was kept in my squad leader's room that she kept underneath her desk, and it was a punishment to be placed in it for lengths of time, and it was only recently that I actually focused on the feelings I used to have when placed in there, because I truly believed that they understood that I was feeling something strange, and I have to believe that they were feeling it as well.

Unfortunately, at the time, I didn't understand what these feelings were, so I didn't get a chance to really enjoy that experience as I would enjoy it today if it were ever to happen again. For years, when I remembered West Point, I remembered that I learned discipline there (yes, I eventually did go the straight and narrow, although I still took great pleasure in solving problems the unofficial way rather than going through channels and practically made a career of it), but I rarely focused on the fact that I had learned something new, something I would not appreciate until many years later.

I've spent a number of years experimenting and exploring this thing called D&S, and it was only in the last couple of years that I gained a true understanding behind what it was I was really looking for. At one point, I realized that I wanted to be controlled, to live my life for another and to experience the feelings that such control would bring forth. Believe this when I always assumed that such control was something I would never achieve, and if I ever achieved the experience of such control, I always assumed that I would run screaming the other direction, meeting my intolerance point that I would not be able to surpass. But as I experienced more and more of this, falling deeper and deeper into the reality of a total lifestyle submission, I found myself wanting more and more of it until I began to suspect that I would want nothing but a life that was no longer my own. And yet, I kept saying to myself, if I ever reached such a point, it would be too much for me, and I would have to turn my back on this and the lifestyle I had grown so much to love. I truly believed that once I reached that point, I would forsake everything about the lifestyle because I would realize that the goal of my life is not what I dreamed it would be, and therefore, everything I have sought would have been for nothing. But that's a problem to be worried about when you're nowhere near fulfilling what is basically your ultimate fantasy.

I have learned through this journey that sometimes you run into stumbling blocks that make it seem impossible to reach the next step down the submissive ladder, and sometimes, you find yourself climbing back up because the journey down doesn't look as promising as it did only a short time ago. I think what I have often forgotten about such journeys is that I have not embarked on them alone, and it is because of one's guide that a submissive can be helped to find that inner demon within is worthy of unleashing if one is willing to let it live long enough to breathe.

I have taken numerous journeys in my past, and this has been the one journey to which I have both dreamed of and feared at the same time as well. Several years ago, I never would have imagined that I would be at the state I am today; several years ago, I never would have even tried to pursue that which I have experienced to this day. By the same token, I often wonder where I will be several years from now as I experience more of being a submissive, a slave, in a world that just keeps taking more and more control over my very essence. Right now, I can't imagine where I would be. Several years from now, I may look back and wonder how I could have imagined anything less.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me

http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to 23TampaMsub)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 5:51:57 AM

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Nurture vs. nature...I tend to think there is likely a mixture of both. The ratio of the primary influence may vary between people. That was a long way around saying I don't know. I think if you ask every submissive why, you will get a different answer. Likely there is some deep seeded desire to start off with that grows with cultivating based on outside stimuli. Then you get into all the facets of each submissive and that goes even deeper. Why does one submissive desire x, y and z while another wants a, b and c most of all? Interesting thread, I will enjoy hearing from others.

littlesarbonn, excellent post :)

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to 23TampaMsub)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 5:57:24 AM

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Joined: 10/2/2006
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no mistress can find if u r sub or slave you have to find it yourself .. past incidences in your life will let you know if u r sub or not ... for example when i was in school i was spanked almost daily by school ladies (teachers) ... i hate that punishment very much but when i gone to college i missed it so thats who i find i am sub...

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 6:21:56 AM

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Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
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There are so many types of submissives. That’s a fact. I’ve met some who had a difficult time accepting it and it drove them into depression. Sometimes I wondered if this was the burden they carried and plant a seed making them feel worthless and weak. Maybe something they realized very young and always tired to escape. We’ve all heard about the great purge where a submissive collects hundreds of magazines, masturbates daily, attempts to find a mistress then becomes angry/depressed and decides to throw everything away and try being “normal”. After a while he begins having fantasies again and he’s back in the spin. I can imagine that this would become very emotional.

Then you have the subs who are sexually driven and dominant in every other area of their life. In fact most control how they will be submissive.

I’m not going to go into all of the definitions here. We’ve heard them all. I have a point (I think- lol)

The best submissive for me is one who is naturally submissive but has learned to channel it as strength. They relinquish control only to me. The submissive thread is realized and treated as sacred just as my dominance is sacred and shared only with a select few. Sure it may dribble into our day today because it’s the essence of who we are, however its purest essence is shared with our counterparts.

I use to know a woman who I thought was pretty dominant naturally but she enjoyed having submission taken. She too referred to herself as wild animal who wanted to be tamed. I admit that the times I really did try submitting there was a sense of well being and it gave me a different insight I hadn’t had before. I don’t have the draw to that desire any more but when I did it was quite hot. I love exploring new things.

Your desires will evolve over time. As you explore new things you’ll continue to climb higher. Its an exciting journey if you allow it to be.

_____________________________

(in reply to stillexploring)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 7:04:32 AM

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Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
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Legal ... I like the idea of attonement..whether for real or make believe.. I love playing with guilt... and I love debasement and making someone feel less than they are just because I can. I have so much respect for someone who can see me like that, knowing that beyond a greeting, I don't give a rats how their day was or how many people they've kicked butt or had kiss arse .. they're a nothing in my eyes and they take and do whatever is necessary for them to forget that they are somehow important in the grand scheme of things.

Peace, love and mungbeans

Jasmyn

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to legalbrit)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 7:59:49 AM

MistressMelissa

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Joined: 11/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
I submitted to a good deal of woman before I finally figured out that just submitting meant very little to me if there wasn't someone to whom I was submitting who could use that submission in a way that would make me better for it in the long run.

Greetings,

This is the money shot as they say. One submits because their submission makes them more that what they can be on their own. It's a symbiotic relationship. While each might be good, together they are greater than the sum of their parts. Unless the instrument yields to the skills of the musician neither are anything.

If the "little one" does not grow or mature through their submission, then it is meaningless and the relationship will die. Both owner and property become intertwined in a dance that feeds the other until both become complete.

It does not matter if its genetics, or nurture. One need but embrace who they are and experience life. You may discover you are someone totally different then who you think you are now.

_____________________________

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. - Ancient Wisdom

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 12:43:31 PM

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OK folks, here it is Legals Guide to Caning .
Read , Mark, Learn and practice, practice . Then next time you have a sub who can take the cane, (not all can of course) show him/her, that you are a real expert.
"

CANING

Much is written on Caning. Most of it is inaccurate. Take it from one who knows.
I went to school in England.   English schoolmasters were expert and made no mistakes!

Almost all the BDSM web sites, offering so called caning pics, are fakes.
In most of them the canes are shown being used in entirely the wrong way.

         Technique
For a right handed top;
Cane should strike both cheeks at the exact same time, for maximum pain,
also for the pleasure of the sub ??.
the Tip must fall in middle of right cheek. NO further.
Do NOT attempt to Awrap@ around the cheeks, It cause over flexing of the cane and the cane will break.
Most important, overreaching or Awrapping@ will reduce the pain of the stroke on both cheeks.   The reason is explained below.

         Arm movement
A full arm swing   is a complete mistake.
The cane stroke comes mainly from the wrist. The forearm may also be moved but only a short distance.
The shoulder and upper arm should never move
Compare the cane stroke with the sports of squash and tennis.
In squash the stroke is a snappy movement of wrist and forearm only.
There is little or no shoulder and upper arm movement.
Caning strokes should be like squash. Forearm and wrist only. For almost all BDSM canings it is best to go for accuracy rather than extreme force.
For accuracy , here is a tip from the English Schoolmasters.
Keep the right elbow firmly touching your right side at about your waist line.
Tap the cane lightly on the target. Then make a short back swing with the forearm . At the same time snap the wrist back, to make the cane flex back. Then swing the forearm forward again and snap the wrist sharply forward.
Your cane will land on target every time, after a little practice.
The force (and pain) come from the snap of the wrist, backwards then forwards.

REFINEMENT
Test each cane for Bending.
This is vital. Each cane must be tested , maybe on cushions,
( or a friendly and patient sub ??) to check for its bending .
ALL canes, except Aclubs@, will bend somewhat , during the stroke.
If you want to check this, make a video of yourself swinging your various canes on a cushion.
A thin cane bends more than a thicker one.
A strong or swift stroke will bend the cane more than a light stroke.

The amount of bend is important.
When the cane strikes the cheeks, it is STILL bent back.
With most Tops, this means that the cane will strike the left cheek first and then the right cheek.

This is NOT what you want.
WHY. Because as it strikes the left cheek , the cane will straighten out.
This will make the cane Abounce@ from one cheek to the other.
The stroke is Auneven@.
Also the flexing of the cane as it strikes the cheeks will cause the cane to vibrate .
This will use up much of the energy in the stroke and your sub will feel you do not know what you are doing.
You must allow for the backwards bending of the cane during the stroke, and be sure that the cane strikes both cheeks while the cane is still bent back.
After impact, hold the cane pressed firmly on the cheeks for a moment. This causes the pain to develop in waves from the stroke. The sub will know he/she has been caned by an expert..

The expert Top has tested the cane for flex. She has estimated the amount of bend in the cane for the stroke she is delivering.
To prepare for the actual stroke she first touches the bottom, on the right cheek only .
She aims the cane at an angle while it is still straight.
It touches only the right cheek.
The cane at this point does not touch the left cheek. The amount of Alift off@, depends on the flexibility of the cane and the speed of her intended stroke.
To make the stroke she swings her forearm and wrist back .
The cane is swinging and arcing behind her back.
She then swings her forearm quickly (sharply etc) forwards.
During this part of the stroke, the cane bends back still more.
At the last minute she snaps her wrist forwards to increase the speed of the cane.   This will bend the cane still more.
Given the right amount of bend   then the cane lines up with both left and right cheeks at the same time.

The cane strikes both cheeks at once , while still bent back , and does not bounce or vibrate.

On impact the cane is still bent back. There is no bouncing from one cheek to the other.
The full force of the stroke is transferred directly to both cheeks at the same moment.

By keeping the cane pressed firmly for a moment , while still bent, on the line of impact, the full pain will develop , in waves from the cheeks , throughout the subs bottom.

To get the cane to strike both cheeks at the same time requires knowledge of your various canes, and an accurate touch to gauge the amount of bend in each cane at the speed of stroke you are using.
One way to test the flex of the cane, before the stroke, is by pressing it against the subs bottom and making it bend.
This will give him/her an added thrill of anticipation !

Another benefit. Your canes will last much longer, when used correctly."

email me if you want, I have the full text, it is much longer. I also have sketches showing incorrect and correct techniques .
And have a wacking good time one and all !!

(in reply to MistressMelissa)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 3:15:00 PM

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Joined: 5/4/2004
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Well I can only speak for myself in this regard.... and I will tell my long and possibly boring story (lol). I have had at least two revelations:

The first:
I was in puberty when I found out....at first I thought I was going insane. I think we were discussing slavery in a history class and I began with these extremely intrusive fantasies. Anyway, I felt guilty as hell that I could possible be turned on by something as barbaric as slavery. I surpressed for as long as I could, all the while the desires grew stronger.

Second revelation:
by the time I was legally an adult I had accepted that these were my desires and there were many people out there who had similiar ones. I was finally begining to accept it and began researching the subject.

One night while thinking about it, something was triggered in my mind and I had what I would best describe as a flashback. I was 8 years old and had been whipped for something or other. No, I am not whining or wanting sympathy here...I just believe this was a straong factor in my developing my submissive desires. Anyway, as a kid I would usually get a whipping once a week at least regardless if I had done it or my sibblings did. In our house, and since I was the oldest,I was expected to set an example. When my sibblings got into trouble I took the whipping for it for failing to have set the example.

Anyway, I was 8 and crying in the bathroom with my mother rubbing my welts on my legs after having been belted for something.

This is the key to me.... the reason I have submissive fantasies to women was because I had been nurtured by my mother after I was whipped by my father.

At first I was angry at my fatherwho was much older when I connected the dots and realised what had happened. I felt like running into the living room and yelling at him for "freakish" desires I had due to repressing these memories. I then realised that it wasnt his fault. I developed naturally and every child is dubject to discipline in one form or another.

If you want to know where these desires are rooted I suggest you try remembering your pre-teen and early childhood years. With some of the other people I have talked to, this seems to be a MAJOR factor.

(in reply to legalbrit)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 4:23:25 PM

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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: legalbrit

OK folks, here it is Legals Guide to Caning .
Read , Mark, Learn and practice, practice . Then next time you have a sub who can take the cane, (not all can of course) show him/her, that you are a real expert.

What does this have to do with the opening post?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to legalbrit)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 5:26:02 PM

Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: legalbrit

OK folks, here it is Legals Guide to Caning .
Read , Mark, Learn and practice, practice . Then next time you have a sub who can take the cane, (not all can of course) show him/her, that you are a real expert.

What does this have to do with the opening post?

Celeste

I'm not sure if it had ANYTHING to do with the original post. It appears that someone who considers himself an expert on caning wanted to slide it in. I must admit that one person did ask for it though. I doubt she realized he was going to publish an entire novel on the message board explaining the "correct" method.
Now I realize that most of you don't know me from...say...legalbrit. However, I have used the cane quite extensively and I don't recall a single sub/slave EVER asking me if I used the correct method when I used the cane. I have one techniqe and one result...."S**t that hurt!" Not rocket science. You're hitting someone's ass with a stick people! There is no real secret to getting the marks straight and even. It's simply a matter of practice.
Mistress Scarlet

_____________________________

"Say, that hurts a little bit" "And you don't like to be hurt do ya?" "I don't know...kinda fun sometimes if it's done in the right spirit."
Jean Harlow in The Beast of the City

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 5:45:17 PM

Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Status: offline

I am now hopefully returning you to your previous program......
Mistress Scarlet

_____________________________

"Say, that hurts a little bit" "And you don't like to be hurt do ya?" "I don't know...kinda fun sometimes if it's done in the right spirit."
Jean Harlow in The Beast of the City

(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 7:54:44 PM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

For different people, there are different reasons. For Descartes, it was cogito ergo sub.

;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

RE: Why do you think one is a Sub/slave? - 10/5/2006 8:03:56 PM

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

oh Sea, that should be your new sig...

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to undergroundsea)

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