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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:38:27 AM

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Your points may be valid, but we are talking about the US.
Mastered-prepared social workers here sometimes make about the same or a little more than someone who has completed a six month nursing assistant training course.
You want fries with that?
Paper, or plastic?

< Message edited by justheather -- 10/19/2006 9:40:07 AM >

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:42:25 AM

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That's probably the market value of nursing assistants compared to social workers. I have a masters but no one owes me a living above and beyond my market value.

(in reply to justheather)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:47:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

That's probably the market value of nursing assistants compared to social workers. I have a masters but no one owes me a living above and beyond my market value.

I was merely pointing out to you that your statistics regarding what social workers make and do in the UK do not reflect what social workers make and do in the US.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:01:53 AM

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Not to mention that social workers often help children from abusive homes, help people get placed in jobs and act as liasons to help people get treatment for drug problems and mental health problems. I call that necessary... but that is just my opinion

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(in reply to justheather)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:10:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

This thread appears to be getting anti-immigrant reactions from all the same people that are against illegal immigrants, yet these immigrants will be legal. One senses its any immigrant who isn't white that is the real problem for these people.

Meat, I wouldn't want 10,000 "refugees" from Ireland or England comming here either.
Twenty or thirty years ago I'd get questionaires from my congressman and senators asking me what I thought of certain things.
"Would you be in favor of x, y, or z?"
Even when I was in the military I'd get those questionaires.
My mother once even got a call from Ted Kennedy's office asking her opinion on certain issues and which way she'd like the senator to vote on them.
That kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore!
Now we're "told" what our government is going to do, not consulted by our government anymore!
It's like the government does whatever it and big business want to do and the people be damned!
Is it just me or doesn't anyone else in here see anything wrong with that?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:11:59 AM

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...in the UK, just as in the US......when daddy fancies his 12 year old more than mummy, and when mummy turns a blind eye because it takes the pressure off her......thats a social workers job............when the 78 year old is living alone, because no-one in the family is prepared to take responsibility....thats a social workers job............when the teenager is sleeping rough and developing a serious substance abuse issue because home is, incredibly, worse......thats a social workers job.

None of that has a market value, none of that creates wealth. The only reason that work gets done is because some of us value humanity above net material worth. Anyone who thinks work like that ought to only be paid at minimum wage needs an empathy implant.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:13:51 AM

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I agree with you philosophy. It is like teachers are not paid much either, nor are nannies, nor are children daycare workers... why? Because they do not have a market value....

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:21:30 AM

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Id like to just throw out there than anybody who is complaining about not having a job should get off their bum right now and go to the nearest hospital and ask about programs to fund a nursing education.
We are desperate for nurses.

Now, this means you are going to have to work all day or all night, sometimes with no meals and minimal time to go to the bathroom. You will have to give care to people you don't like, who don't like you, who have in many cases caused their own illness through lifestyle choices, who are angry, in pain, and often nasty, laying in bodily fluids that may or may not contain organisms that cause horrible diseases. And you can't say "that's not my job" about most things.

But, you'll get paid up to three times what a social worker makes and you won't be able to complain any more about all the immigrants taking away your job... and this job isnt going to be outsourced to India any time soon.

So, all whining from here on out should cease, as everyone is going to be out applying for nursing school.

"Problem solved."

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:24:12 AM

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popeye, I think that we're all (or at least the majority of us) are frustrated with the current state of our government. But I can't be so frustrated by my government that I can no longer see or feel for the plight of human beings (let's not forget that part) who are living in conditions so abhorrent that if it were my dog in their place, I would euthanize him to end his suffering. I am far from a bleeding heart...but I do still have one.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:34:22 AM

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Unbelievable!
I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. (Rep. Henry Brown 1st -S.C.)
THEY don't know anything about this!
"We haven't heard anything about this."
So not only are the American people unaware of this our congress is also unaware of this?
It looks like the U.S. State Dept is doing this all on their lonesome without consulting the People or even the congress!
Can this govt get anymore disfunctional?
Funny, I can't remember voting for anyone in the U.S. State Dept, does anyone here?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:43:21 AM

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quote:

It looks like the U.S. State Dept is doing this all on their lonesome without consulting the People or even the congress!
Can this govt get anymore disfunctional?
Funny, I can't remember voting for anyone in the U.S. State Dept, does anyone here?

So, Im trying to get this straight, Popeye.
You want us to vote for every person who has any capacity for making any decisions with regard to the nation.
And, you want the people who are voted into office to consult the general public every time they need to make a decision that will have an impact on the people.
Well, in that case, we might as well let the immigrants have all our jobs, we will be too busy micromanaging the nation to go to work.
Neat idea for a government, however not how this country's government works.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 11:10:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

quote:

It looks like the U.S. State Dept is doing this all on their lonesome without consulting the People or even the congress!
Can this govt get anymore disfunctional?
Funny, I can't remember voting for anyone in the U.S. State Dept, does anyone here?

So, Im trying to get this straight, Popeye.
You want us to vote for every person who has any capacity for making any decisions with regard to the nation.
And, you want the people who are voted into office to consult the general public every time they need to make a decision that will have an impact on the people.
Well, in that case, we might as well let the immigrants have all our jobs, we will be too busy micromanaging the nation to go to work.
Neat idea for a government, however not how this country's government works.

Just got off the phone with Sen. De Mint's office and THEY don't know anything about this either!
So, the U.S. State Dept, an un-elected govt beauracracy wants to transport 10,000 "refugees" to this country and have the U.S. Taxpayers foot the bill for everything to the tune of billions and billions of dollars and the congress and senate who hold the purse strings is totally unaware of this?
Heather, don't you think that "The People" should have a say in how our government is run?
It's not the U.S. State Dept's job description to be making decisions like this. They wearn't Elected!
*And yes I do want the people who are voted into office to consult the general public everytime they need to make a decision that will have an* impact* on the People!*
That's why WE put them there!
That's called representative govt!!!
Would you prefer that they do things behind closed doors like they have for the last two administrations?
It's like you're saying that The People don't have a right to know what OUR government is doing.

(in reply to justheather)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 11:16:12 AM

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quote:

Just got off the phone with Sen. De Mint's office and THEY don't know anything about this either!
So, the U.S. State Dept, an un-elected govt beauracracy wants to transport 10,000 "refugees" to this country and have the U.S. Taxpayers foot the bill for everything to the tune of billions and billions of dollars and the congress and senate who hold the purse strings is totally unaware of this?

Were you this outraged over signing away Habeas Corpus or when they signed The Patriot act? There were only a few that did not sign the patriot act and they happened to be the ones that read it... I hate to break it to you, but our congress people by and large do not read what they sign, much less pass it by their constituency... now that tends to outrage me when they abrogate my constitutional rights, but I understand it completely over a little thing like which refugees make it into the country... we have lots of refugees that come here for humanitarian reasons, and if we stopped that practice of taking people in for those reasons I would be ashamed of this country

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 11:26:05 AM

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Julia, there is no war in Burundi now.
These people are "Economic Refugees" like 5 billion other people in the world.
We still have 300-500,000 so called "refugees" in this country from Bosnia and Kosovo and there hasn't been any fighting in those countries for years!
According to the Geneva Conventions those people can be sent back to their own countries as well.
If we're going to go by the Geneva Conventions shouldn't we go by all of them? Or do we just pick and choose the parts we like or don't like?
And don't you think that American Citizens and Taxpayers have the right to be consulted by OUR govt before they make decisions for us?
And no, I don't think that the govt should be abrogating our rights!
"Refugee" status is a Temporary situation and in no case should it involve being given U.S. Citizenship.
We have places where refugees can be placed temporarily for their safety such as Gtmo and Guam until such time as the situation in their home countries stabilizes.
These "refugee" and "Asylum" programs are rife with corruption.
I know a lady in New Hampshire who used to work for the "U.N." and saw it first-hand. She quit after 3 years in disgust.
I wish I could get her into this site to tell you all how we're being ripped-off.
Again, is there *ANY* advocate in Washington for the U.S. Taxpayers?
Are we just to accept whatever OUR government wants to do to us?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/19/2006 11:36:55 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 11:30:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
We still have 300-500,000 so called "refugees" in this country from Bosnia and Kosovo and there hasn't been any fighting in those countries for years!

I wonder how many of them are now taxpaying citizens? Is there a point at which one loses "refugee" status?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 11:32:29 AM

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I just have a different outrage button popeye.... I just guess I am more outraged by a government that spies on its citizens, denies them due process, and the like than I am about letting a few poor people in through the gates... they set ratios of who is allowed and who is not at the INS, call them up and find out what you can do about immigration reform.

I will continue to be outraged by things I find more important... like secret torture and kangaroo courts

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 11:55:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
We still have 300-500,000 so called "refugees" in this country from Bosnia and Kosovo and there hasn't been any fighting in those countries for years!

I wonder how many of them are now taxpaying citizens? Is there a point at which one loses "refugee" status?

Mist, once someone loses "refugee" status they can and should be repatriated back to their home countries.
According to the Geneva Conventions once the situation "stabilises" in a country "the refugees from that country can then be repatriated."
But, it seems that the people in Washington don't like to follow the rules.
And of course we're expected to pick up the tab, lock, stock, and barrel for those people.
Most Americans don't get the benefits that they get.
We've been MORE than generous to refugees and asylum seekers in this country.
By far, we've taken in more than all other countries combined.
When we take in so called "Refugees" because "they don't want to go back" that's not what these programs were intended to do.
It's "mission creep" just like everything in the govt.
And as usual the govt. in Washington have the attitude of; "The People be damned!"
I just don't like some faceless beauracrat in the State Dept "Telling" me what they're going to do.
THEY are not the Management, they're the fuckin hired help!

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 1:19:43 PM

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I would love to become a nurse if there was a cure for HIV and Hep C. Thoughts of accidental needle sticks and exposure to poisonous bodily fluids keep me from it. Nursing isn't stable work anyway. Many nurses are laid off at hospitals due to the US healthcare system. People can't afford to pay hospital bills so hospitals have to cut back on nurses.

(in reply to justheather)

RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 1:24:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I would love to become a nurse if there was a cure for HIV and Hep C. Thoughts of accidental needle sticks and exposure to poisonous bodily fluids keep me from it. Nursing isn't stable work anyway. Many nurses are laid off at hospitals due to the US healthcare system. People can't afford to pay hospital bills so hospitals have to cut back on nurses.

This is not true. I have been a nurse 9 years and never had a needlestick. I work in ICU where there are alot of things flying around. The amount of nurses that get HIV or Hep C from blood or body fluid exposure is 10%. Extremely low. Nursing is the fastest growing occupation. It is not unstable. There is a nursing shortage. Nurses can buy and pick and choose where they want to go. Nurses are not being laid off due to instability. Hospitals are not cutting back on nurses. The need more nurses actually.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 1:43:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I would love to become a nurse if there was a cure for HIV and Hep C. Thoughts of accidental needle sticks and exposure to poisonous bodily fluids keep me from it. Nursing isn't stable work anyway. Many nurses are laid off at hospitals due to the US healthcare system. People can't afford to pay hospital bills so hospitals have to cut back on nurses.

Please show me one example of a hospital in the United States of America that is laying off nurses right now, has done so in the past ten years or is talking about it being imminent.

The average age of a nurse in this country is quickly approaching retirement age and we arent training enough new ones. There is a critical national shortage.

Im sure you'd love to do a lot of things that other people get up every day and do despite the negative or even life-threatening aspects... if the negative aspects were removed. So would most people who moan about immigrants "taking all the jobs". They are taking all the jobs that people here think are too dangerous or are beneath them.

And the phrase I highlighted is just absolute FICTION.

< Message edited by justheather -- 10/19/2006 1:49:25 PM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

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