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"No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 11:58:37 AM

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Joined: 6/25/2004
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I've chat/talked with a few people... Even got to know/dated a "slave" for a few months.
In getting to know people, we go out, talk, discuss likes/dislikes and limits...
I'm fairly open and willing to go far with my control of him, but mostly, I am interested in getting to know the person, and feel that he is a kind/decent human being, who's not intimidated by a controlling (albeit sweet and kind woman, lol=well, sometimes anyway], and likes to play bottom.
I have on several occasions heard the "I'm not a doormat" (with vanilla boys who are curious and say they are sub, and want to be dominated, with the "slave" I went out with, and last night when I was chatting with a guy who says he is new to BDSM)... Last night I was not in the mood, and told him I think we should end conversation because "I did want a doormat".
What I really want, is someone who can state his opinions/likes without being ignorant/disrespectful/condescending; and one who has a submissive enough personality that once he gets to know me, will gladly lay down for me and be my doormat if that is what I wish.

I obviously don't want to force anyone to submit, and don't want anyone who doesn't like my style (still developing, which I make no secret of).
I get sooooo massively annoyed by that phrase, and wanted to know how other people felt about this.

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 1:25:39 PM

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quote:

will gladly lay down for me and be my doormat if that is what I wish.

Would that mean we would have to paint a christmas tree on my back?

Hehe, when I was looking I never uttered the phrase. I guess most do though?

Unless they are so tired of abuser's they want to get it out in the open and over with before it takes up too much time? Dunno, that is what comes to my mind though.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 3:12:41 PM

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Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
they are so tired of abuser's they want to get it out in the open and over with before it takes up too much time?

I guess that is a possibility. Perhaps if that phrase is used by a sub it is a way of signalling that something bad has happened in their past.

Or perhaps the phrase simply means that they have done enough reading to have taken the first step away from fantasy thinking - and the phrase signals that they still have a bit of work to do figuring out who that are and what they want in a relationship.

Or maybe its something else entirely. I guess we could do a mass email and ask any sub who has the phrase "not a doormat" in their profile.

The results might be interesting.

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 3:15:20 PM

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I know this is the 'Ask a Mistess" board but I would like to answer this one. I have that phrase in my profile. I have it there because over the course of time I have been amazed by the number of "Dominants" who have contacted me that are seeking exactly that type of woman. I use the term "Dominants" loosely in their case as I do not believe that is what they are other than in their own mind. I believe most of them are seeking women that will be easily abused.....heck I don't even think that most of them even like women much less have any respect for them. Anyway, I added that in hopes of "nipping in the bud" those kinds of contacts. I can not speak for others but this is the reason I chose to use it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 4:16:08 PM

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Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
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I was going to guess what mistoferin just stated was her experience.

But I did see one amusing profile here where the gal said she didn't understand why others say they didn't want to be a doormat because the idea turned her on. However, others use the term "doormat" figuratively while she meant she would literally like lying on the floor and being walked on and having feet wiped on her and such things. heh.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 4:17:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
they are so tired of abuser's they want to get it out in the open and over with before it takes up too much time?

Or perhaps the phrase simply means that they have done enough reading to have taken the first step away from fantasy thinking - and the phrase signals that they still have a bit of work to do figuring out who that are and what they want in a relationship.

I guess we could do a mass email and ask any sub who has the phrase "not a doormat" in their profile. The results might be interesting.

Thanks Gloria and Chris for the Funny and thoughthful responses...
I never considered past abuse as a possible reason, and guess, I will patiently ask what he means next time. M

(in reply to onceburned)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 4:23:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I have that phrase in my profile. I have it there because over the course of time I have been amazed by the number of "Dominants" who have contacted me that are seeking exactly that type of woman.
I believe most of them are seeking women that will be easily abused.....heck I don't even think that most of them even like women much less have any respect for them. Anyway, I added that in hopes of "nipping in the bud"

Thanks Mistoerin for your enlightening response, and I can definitely understand your reasoning. I, guess I only hate it because I've never tried to impose my way on anyone (especially while initially chatting), and so when it comes out of the blue, it just seems they read one book, up until that phrase, and stopped, without thinking what it should mean for them individually. M

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 5:39:39 PM

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Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I know this is the 'Ask a Mistess" board but I would like to answer this one.

Oh geez... now I am embarassed because I have charged into this forum so many times spouting off my opinions.

I need to be a little more restrained.

And your reasons for including it in yours was also a good reminder to me as well.

But since I opened my mouth and stuck my foot in, I figured I might as well make work of it.

I searched through the male Collarme profiles and found 52 which included the word "doormat". I read through the most recent 33 (I got tired)

8 of the 33 wanted to be a doormat - evenly split between reasons of fetish or of general degradation

25 of the 33 did not want to be a doormat.

3 of 25 specifically mentioned past exploitation by dominants

6 of 25 indicated pride or respect for self (and not a doormat)

6 of 25 indicated they were active and intelligent (and not a doormat)

5 of 25 indicated some kind of anxiety about submission in general

5 of 25 I couldn't figure out what the heck they were talking about

=================

Okay... I think I have done my penace.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 2/2/2005 6:05:22 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 5:54:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned
Oh geez... now I am embarassed because I have charged into this forum so many times spouting off my opinions. I need to be a little more restrained.
But since I opened my mouth and stuck my foot in, I figured I might as well make work of it.

8 of the 33 wanted to be a doormat - evenly split between reasons of fetish or of general degradation

25 of the 33 did not want to be a doormat.

3 of 33 specifically mentioned past exploitation by dominants

6 of 33 indicated pride or respect for self (and not a doormat)

Thanks so much Chris/Onceburned for the lovely research, and please feel free to stick your nose in and tell me your opinion anytime...

So, if I understand, only 3 (or 12%)out of 25 of them had a legitimate reason for having it there (out of fear of being exploited), and the rest are just slightly paranoid about it; because respect of self/intelligence should preclude anyone from being used as a doormat in a way that shouldn't necessitate the statement "Im not..." at all...
Or maybe I'm just whiny, and am one of the very few people trully bothered by the inference that I'm trying to screw someone who doesn't want/consent to being screwed. M

(in reply to onceburned)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 6:45:51 PM

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I've been vanilla (well, sorta) most of my life so my first thought when I see that word is that someone means it metaphorically, ie, I've got opinions, wishes, desires as part of who I am; I'm not an object.

Of course that's my projection, so who knows what they mean.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 7:21:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shayna
when I see that word is that someone means it metaphorically, ie, I've got opinions, wishes, desires as part of who I am; I'm not an object.

Thanks Shayna but, I and everyone who's already replied knows that it's said metaphorically... am sorry if it didn't look that way to you because of my tangential "if I want him to be a doormat' statement.

(in reply to Shayna)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 7:44:16 PM

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Only on these boards would I debate in my own head about whether "not being a doormat" would be literal or metaphoric :)

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 8:20:33 PM

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I have another view of the 'doormat' phrase.
Could it mean someone who does not disrespect themselves...someone who has a strong sense of personal pride?

Where is the fun or challenge in playing Dominant-submissive BDSM games with someone who already thinks they are a worm?

The person who realizes what they are giving up--and is able to do it willingly--rather than someone who never had it (pride, self empowerment) to begin with is my true interest and challenge.
I want a proud slave/sub who grovels willingly for ME, rather than someone who'll grovel for anyone because they believe they are beneath everyone.

--Lady Whipenrod

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Whipenrod -- 2/2/2005 8:21:34 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Shayna)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 9:09:23 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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I'm also tired of the "I'm not a doormat" refrain. Anyone who has ever brought it up to me has turned out to be a bedroom/ role play sub, rather than a true submissive. (Once again, before someone starts screaming about my use of the word real.. this is not a "value judgement".. to me it is a definition. A real sub is one who is submissive to his Domme in every day life. The female is the head of the household. The other type of sub to me is the "bedroom" or "role play" submissive- one who likes to submit in the bedroom or on a part time basis when they are in the mood for it. This type of sub usually wants to be in charge of the household in daily life.) It became a bit of a litmus test for me. If a sub uttered those words, I'd start looking for evidence that they were doing role play.

Self respect is not lessened by taking orders. (Or everyone with a job is in trouble..) The problem is that some orders conflict with the ego. To me, being submissive is being able to carry out the wishes of his Domme even when tired, bored, conflicted by ego or not in the mood. It doesn't make a man a doormat to actually obey. It makes him a sub.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 9:56:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress
I'm also tired of the "I'm not a doormat" refrain.
... to me it is a definition. A real sub is one who is submissive to his Domme in every day life. The female is the head of the household.
It became a bit of a litmus test for me. If a sub uttered those words, I'd start looking for evidence that they were doing role play.

Self respect is not lessened by taking orders. (Or everyone with a job is in trouble..) The problem is that some orders conflict with the ego. To me, being submissive is being able to carry out the wishes of his Domme even when tired, bored, conflicted by ego or not in the mood. It doesn't make a man a doormat to actually obey. It makes him a sub.

Preach on sister, I'm with you completely!
Thanks for your input. M

(in reply to BeachMystress)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/2/2005 9:59:51 PM

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I agree wtih BeachMystress.

I would hasten to add that there is a place for "bedroom submissives/kink players," it's just that not all of us are looking for them. A good many of us are seeking those submissive men who are capable of offering service and submission at anytime and in any venue.

And that doesn't mean I want a doormat--I am not overly fond of inert substances, either. Although I want a submissive who follows orders, I also want one who is capable of showing initiative.

(in reply to BeachMystress)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/3/2005 4:31:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

I get sooooo massively annoyed by that phrase, and wanted to know how other people felt about this.

I know I've stated in a recent thread that my usual response is to pass people by (as prospectives) if they use this phrase. I have come to think of it, as a gross generalization, to mean that the person is not settled enough in their submission that they feel they have to justify their existance. It's almost as if they have a defensive chip on their shoulder in reaction to all the would-be dom/mes who think that a submissive must bow down before anyone claiming to be a dom/me.

While I can appreciate not wanting to deal with that sort, I think a suitable reaction is to just ignore them, shut them down. Needing to qualify yourself to an asshole speaks volumes and what it says is not about the asshole. As I've mentioned on other threads, why rise to the challenge of a fool? While it's wordier to say "I don't give my submission to just anybody, so if you are the sort to believe all submissives should act a certain way with all dominants then we are not a match" I think this sort of statement says more positive things about the person than "I'm not a doormat" does.

So when I see someone state "I'm not a doormat" I usually quietly thank them for being my filter and move on, wishing them well on their journey.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/3/2005 4:38:03 AM

ProtagonistLily

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

I have another view of the 'doormat' phrase.
Could it mean someone who does not disrespect themselves...someone who has a strong sense of personal pride?

Where is the fun or challenge in playing Dominant-submissive BDSM games with someone who already thinks they are a worm?

The person who realizes what they are giving up--and is able to do it willingly--rather than someone who never had it (pride, self empowerment) to begin with is my true interest and challenge.
I want a proud slave/sub who grovels willingly for ME, rather than someone who'll grovel for anyone because they believe they are beneath everyone.

--Lady Whipenrod

Right on Sister!

Where's the challenge for me if they show up as a doormat? I'm not interested necessarily in 'breaking' anyone who doesn't want to be broken, but by the same token, I'm not interested in a submissive who wants me simply because I'm available to fill their needs. If they'll do anything without question, I suspect I'll bore quickly, and that's no fun either.

If it's not fun, why bother?
Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Whipenrod)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/3/2005 11:11:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
It's almost as if they have a defensive chip on their shoulder in reaction to all the would-be dom/mes who think that a submissive must bow down before anyone claiming to be a dom/me.

"I don't give my submission to just anybody, so if you are the sort to believe all submissives should act a certain way with all dominants then we are not a match"
So when I see someone state "I'm not a doormat" I usually quietly thank them for being my filter and move on, wishing them well on their journey.

Now I wish all the people Chris found with doormat on their profiles would read these words above, and rethink their doormat stance.

Thanks Suz, Whipenrod, Ladyrestraint, Lily, and everyone for indulging me, and sending your thoughts... I apreciate learning other people's point of view. M

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: "No Doormat" - 2/3/2005 11:47:16 AM

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quote:

I don't give my submission to just anybody, so if you are the sort to believe all submissives should act a certain way with all dominants then we are not a match"

MizSuz I do like your wording much better. As I said earlier I have used the doormat phrase in hopes of fending off unwanted contacts. I never gave thought to the way it may be perceived to reflect on my submission in the ways that have been described here. I can assure you though that I did not include it because I have a chip on my shoulder, nor does it indicate any unsettlement regarding my submission. It's funny how sometimes we can mean one thing and have it perceived in a totally different light. If you don't mind my using some of your wording, I would like to change mine to match your sentiment a bit more closely.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MizSuz)

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