RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures

RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/10/2005 7:28:37 PM)
quote: One thing I do desire to comment on is the fact that about 99% of the rapes, murders, incests, and other assorted and sundry offenses that are reported over the internet by individuals in chat rooms and on boards such as this are the imagination of the bored and the 'drama queen' mentalities. I am not exactly sure when the last time was that I have been so completely incensed or insulted by a post on a message board. It is a statistically proven fact that approximately 1 rape in every 10 is actually reported. The reasons for not reporting are varied but include shame, embarassment, a wish to deny such vulnerability and a fear of not being believed. Having worked in the field of Domestic Violence/Sexual Assault and having held the hands of many rape survivors at hospitals and police stations I can assure you that women do not generally "make up" the story of being raped because they are bored drama queens. "I have been raped" are the very last words that any woman ever wants to hear come out of her own mouth. How many rape victims have you known? comforted? counseled? been an advocate for? Your post came from the perspective of a man who has obviously never known what it is like to be that vulnerable, to have to live with that kind of fear every single day of your life just because of your gender. I know exactly what that is like.....to know that I am that vulnerable despite the fact that I tell myself how well I can take care of myself. I am a survivor and I can tell you that my "over active imagination and drama queen mentality" had nothing to do with the bruises and gaping holes in my body requiring stitches. These things can and do happen, that is a fact, and while you are entitled to your opinion, I am also entitled to mine. I can, will and do warn submissives regularly about the possible dangers that lie in meeting someone they know little about....and you know what....if my words save just one of them from falling into the hands of a predator then I will be overjoyed. And on the flip side of that coin....just exactly how will you feel when a sub that you have downplayed the danger to ends up dead or maimed? I know that my words mean nothing to you and I don't expect to change the way that you feel by stating what I have. I can only hope that in your career you are not in the field of law enforcement, social services or health care so that you will never be in the position of being the one someone is counting on to help her pick up the pieces.

ShadeDiva -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/10/2005 8:07:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline No - that "gentleman" was in Missouri and the surrounding states. Um, I didn't mention at all where he lived. I used to call him asshole - I think that still fits him far better than "gentleman" does even in quotes, LOL. Prodigy was a server we all used to hang out on. He used to make up LOTS of stories and placed himself in several states - most of which wasn't true. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he used to try to tell folks he was a LA Dodger, though if my memory serves me correctly, he moved to a different state or two (or claimed to have moved, I think some folks met with him even) while prodigy classic still existed, and I seem to vaguely remember some reference to Southern Cali - though I could be mistaken on that, it was like 6-7 years ago or something like that after all, lol - thus why I asked if it might have been the same dude. Though he wasn't brought to trial in Sourthern Cali, so that would sorta have answered my question I suppose, LOL! Just thought I'd clarify. ~ShadeDiva

ShadeDiva -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/10/2005 8:24:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I am not exactly sure when the last time was that I have been so completely incensed or insulted by a post on a message board. Well this isn't meant to offend - but ah - I have experienced the dramaqueen made up rape scenarios more times than I care to think about. Add those along with the fake suicides, fake attempted suicides, fake deaths, fake deaths of family, fake miscarriages, fake incest, fake stories of doms or husbands or wives or subs cheating to dumping them cruelly, fake stabbings, fake shootings, fake muggings, fake robberies, fake houses burning down, fake child abductions, fake beatings, fake abuse, fake battery, fake diseases, fake surgeries, etc etc etc. And yeah - all those in the list I've seen literally hundreds of times on the net since I've come online, and yeah they were either all admitted to or discovered to be a total fucking sham. (Note: not all [as in 100% of the times I've heard such claims] folks that have said those situations happened were fake, but I've seen hundreds of fake stories for each of the above examples, and all the fake ones were those that admitted to it or got caught in their lies) And yeah - it bites. It's an emotional rollercoaster and it sucks as it makes one less likely to believe a REAL call for help or someone sincerely saying this happened to me when you run across it online. I can easily (sadly) say that the majority of such incidents that I personally have run across like those above in the online world have turned out to be total shams. And yup, those doing that kind of thing wanted and lovedddddd the attention and the drama. It's draining to deal with as well. After so many years of running across this, I have to admit my first thought when I hear that online is wondering if they are just creating drama to feed off on. And I've done years of volunteering on suicide hotlines, women's battery hotlines, rape hotlines, and have handled and run across the real deals quite a bit in my short span of years on this planet. I know the stats in the REAL world - but online - and I hate saying it but it's proven to be the truth in my experience and countless others' experiences - it is more often than not a total freaking lie. So though I understand the shock at seeing that and assuming the poster is invalidating a lot of people's painful experiences - I'll just chalk up that shock to either not discovering the lies in those you've run across online that do this shit for a lark, or that you somply haven't been online long enough to run across that much yet. It's not the poster's fault for having that thought run across their brain anymore than it is my fault for having the same thought run across my brain - it is what experience has taught us and it is the fault of those that thoughtlessly flaunt such painful and horrifying scenarios just to get attention and someone fawning over them and feeding their need for creating those types of fabrications. ~ShadeDiva

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/10/2005 8:57:16 PM)
quote: So though I understand the shock at seeing that and assuming the poster is invalidating a lot of people's painful experiences - I'll just chalk up that shock to either not discovering the lies in those you've run across online that do this shit for a lark, or that you somply haven't been online long enough to run across that much yet. It's not the poster's fault for having that thought run across their brain anymore than it is my fault for having the same thought run across my brain - it is what experience has taught us and it is the fault of those that thoughtlessly flaunt such painful and horrifying scenarios just to get attention and someone fawning over them and feeding their need for creating those types of fabrications. ShadeDiva- So that there is no misunderstanding I would like to start off by saying that I value your opinion. I do also know that there are people who make up a myriad of "misdeeds done to them" and I have also experienced those kind of folks first hand. I do admit that I am not much of an online chatter so quite possibly you have seen this much more often than I have. It is my hope however, that I never become so jaded by them that I fail to give proper validation to someone who has really been down that road. I try to remind myself that even those who fabricate are doing so because there is an issue within themselves that needs to be addressed. I took issue with the post because I feel that to say that 99% of all horrendous stories told are simply for the attention value is an incredible and unjust overstatement. As a survivor there is just a part of my mind that can not comprehend why anyone would ever wish to have another human being associate them from that point on with such an act. I can only speak from my own heart and tell you that although it is a fact of my life, it is not one that I wish I had such knowledge of. I feel that when someone takes the standpoint that they will discount everyone who comes forward with such an account, it makes it that much harder for every survivor to come into the light and share their story. For myself, I will continue to err on the side of caution and I will avail myself to hear the whole story. I will be compassionate even though I know that the person before me may not always be as honest as the next... for the alternative for me is to shut down and disassociate from another's need....and that is not an alternative that I can personally live with.

SinTwister -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/10/2005 9:33:01 PM)
The guy here in California had only been out of prison 8 months when he was re-arrested for these rapes. He had been in California the entire time. I remember his screen name, but not his real name. Forgive me, at the time he was arrested, I was dealing more with the death of my uncle/godfather and gave it only a passing nod. One of things with our group, we were a bunch of people that knew each other in real life and we started a chat room. Not the other way around. All were welcome, but the core group all knew each other face to face. I knew the first sub personally. This wasn't some hysterical internet thing. The cops were at the Los Angeles social asking questions. We had he name of our chatroom in an article in the LA TImes. We became a tourist stop on AOL. I have to tell you, that I'm positive that BDSM is a petri dish for Date Rape. Newbies have no idea what to believe and get taken advantage of so often.

ShadeDiva -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/10/2005 11:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I took issue with the post because I feel that to say that 99% of all horrendous stories told are simply for the attention value is an incredible and unjust overstatement. I think you missed the implied quantifier of online. I would in fact say that 80-90% of online dramas are in fact not true, due to my experience. I believe the poster meant to say 99% of horrendous stories online are told simply for the attention. Not 99% of all such tales online and offline across the board. quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin As a survivor there is just a part of my mind that can not comprehend why anyone would ever wish to have another human being associate them from that point on with such an act. I can only speak from my own heart and tell you that although it is a fact of my life, it is not one that I wish I had such knowledge of. I'm a survivor as well. Of many things. One reason why I volunteered as I did and will no doubt do again in the future. However, there is a HUGE trend for folks to play fabricated pity parties. It's actually very sick, and sadly, again, it is VERY popular. To have the thought flit across one's brain isn't to say one is so jaded it's called that when you get run over by a truck enough times and you hear another one coming, that you have the thought flick across your brain that you ought to perhaps this time consider getting out of the way. Imagine that say 40 of the real stories you've heard about abuse and were really putting in massive amounts of time, effort, energy, talking to them trying to help, being there only to find out - not only is it totally false, but THEY get a KICK out of doing it. Imagine the drain you you when you realize alll that energy you put forth to try to help was totally pointless. Then repeat that action a couple hundred times. It's not so much being jaded as it is seeing that truck barreling towards you and you keeping that thought in your brain that okay this one might not be aiming to run you over, but to be ready to bail if all a sudden if seems like it's going to steer right at you. I don't think I can describe the drop one gets when you realize that hours, days, weeks, and even years that you went out of your way to support and help someone only to find they were doing it for kicks and none of it was true. I think you sort of have to experience it before you know what I mean. Just like people pretend to be women when they are men and vice versa, and doms and subs when they arent and single when they arent and fat or tall or thin or whatever and they aren't - there are those is equal amounts that pretend they are sick, hurt, abused when they aren't. They find it fun and exciting to have that attention. And after you filter through enough of those people, just like when a dom approaches you and says Im LORDDOMMASTERDUDE and you better believe it, chances are there will be a part of your brain that says hmm, could be a poser. Its not so much being jaded as havign enough experience that when certain things happen you dont blind yourself to the possiblity it isnt real and dont allow yourself to be blindsided by someone misrepresenting the truth. Not sure if that made any sense. LOL! ~ShadeDiva

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/11/2005 6:29:10 AM)
quote: I don't think I can describe the drop one gets when you realize that hours, days, weeks, and even years that you went out of your way to support and help someone only to find they were doing it for kicks and none of it was true. I think you sort of have to experience it before you know what I mean. I have experienced it and probably moreso than most people, even though I am not an avid user of the chatroom medium. It does not however change my stance. I am not bitching or whining about the times that I have been hoodwinked as it has been my concious decision to be open enough to all that this is a definite and real possibility. I have a saying that I like: "If you make a habit of playing on the train tracks, you forfeit the right to bitch when you are hit by a train". The quote at the bottom of my posts states that there are no victims here....only volunteers. I make concious choices about what I am willing to subject myself to and I am fully prepared to assume the consequences of those choices. I will give you the time that I spent working in substance abuse as an example. The reasons that lead people into a substance abuse facility in this country today are varied. Court ordered(90 days jail or 90 days treatment, which would you pick?), trying to appease a spouse, trying to regain custody of children, trying to satisfy family...the list goes on and on. About 5 percent of the people walking in the door are there because they have come to a point where they have a burning desire within themself to make a change. Do you ignore the other 95 who are there for reasons that you know will not lead to their long term success? I mean after all it is all just BS right? Of course not! You give every single one of them the same information and effort and you hope and pray that at some point in their lives something that you said to them might click and they may use it in a positive way. I am not saying that you don't have every right to feel the way you feel, to be honest I think that in light of what you describe as your experiences with folks like this, most people would feel exactly as you do. All I am saying is that I am not willing to become one who discounts across the board at the risk of the few who might actually need. It's a risk I am willing to assume.

LordODiscipline -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/11/2005 5:05:59 PM)
OK - Time to take a pill, calm down, take a step back, and realize what I am saying - not what you 'believed' I said: I am referring to the people who spill fear amongst the 'breathren' through made up stories as a means of manipulating others... not the facts as reported by the 'statistics mongers' who portray numbers as realities. There is a distinct difference in lies. One is blantant lies. The other makes irrational statements that sound good on the outside, but make no sense at all when considered from the viewpoint of "what the f___ did they say??" As one for instance: quote: It is a statistically proven fact that approximately 1 rape in every 10 is actually reported. On the one hand, we see something that is quite alarming to those of us who are civilized - on the other hand,one has to ask the question: "Where the freak do these non-reports come from if not reported?" But, the fact remains (no matter what the statistics are in the "real world") that I was: 1. Not poking fun at such statistics (at that point), 2. I was (definitively) not demeaning the people who are (actually) injured, 3. I was not seeking to incense the politically correct who might choose to misread what I wrote and feel insulted as they (may) 'never have before on a posting board', 4. Nor was I seeking to alienate anyone else who might decide to read something into that diatribe than was actually there - I am referring to those people who make a statement of a crime and then (suddenly) cannot support these allegations with anything more than inuenndo. And, no - I am not referring to anyone who has posted in this thread - so, please do not make me get out the keyboard again. Now that this is straightened out (I am sure, most unsatisfactorily) - we return you to the normal "bat-channel". ~J

LordODiscipline -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/11/2005 5:13:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShadeDiva I think you missed the implied quantifier of online. I would in fact say that 80-90% of online dramas are in fact not true, due to my experience. I believe the poster meant to say 99% of horrendous stories online are told simply for the attention. Not 99% of all such tales online and offline across the board.[/quote} Thank you for the qualifier - you are absolutely correct. ~J

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/11/2005 6:00:54 PM)
quote: The other makes irrational statements that sound good on the outside, but make no sense at all when considered from the viewpoint of "what the f___ did they say??" As one for instance: quote: It is a statistically proven fact that approximately 1 rape in every 10 is actually reported. On the one hand, we see something that is quite alarming to those of us who are civilized - on the other hand,one has to ask the question: "Where the freak do these non-reports come from if not reported?" I appreciate your clarifications. However, I am still of the belief that when a person takes a stance such as yours it only complicates the decision of reporting for the next victim down the road. One of the most common reasons I heard from survivors related to the reasons they chose not to report to an actual law enforcement agency was the fear that they would not be believed. As for the statistics, I am not a statistic monger, nor did I just simply pull that out of my ass to piss you off. I have also never been referred to as being particularly politically correct. Contrary to your belief I am also not prone to making "irrational statements". I give my opinions based upon the chord in me that is struck without much thought as to whether not it is within the politically correct category. I don't expect for you to take my word for anything, my word means little to anyone but myself. I will however provide you with the links you can view to see where those statistics come from. I am sure you will be surprised to see that there is a sexual assault committed in this country every 2 minutes and only 2 to 3% of all reported rapes are actually proven to be false claims. But as I said, don't take my word for it. Many of these statistics come from the FBI and other leading Criminal Justice organizations. http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm http://www.rainn.org/statisticsarc.html

LordODiscipline -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/11/2005 9:12:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I appreciate your clarifications. However, I am still of the belief that when a person takes a stance such as yours it only complicates the decision of reporting for the next victim down the road. It is your right to have a belief. That does not make it a reality. Nor does it make it a moral perogative for other people to ignore truth. People behave in very odd ways for very odd reasons. I refuse to be responsible for other people's behaviors and foibles. Were I to come out against 'fake suicides' on the web, I do not think that would lessen the reality or incidence of suicide in the real world. The logic is not there, nor is the moral imperitive compelling. quote: One of the most common reasons I heard from survivors related to the reasons they chose not to report to an actual law enforcement agency was the fear that they would not be believed. It appears to be a personal issue for them relative to the veracity and believability of their claims, the ultimate viability of the authority they should have reported the crime to, or their motivation for the report. Those are personal selection of choices on their part and does not mitigate the moral obligation of reporting that may lead to the prevention of another crime in the future. quote: As for the statistics, I am not a statistic monger, nor did I just simply pull that out of my ass to piss you off. I have also never been referred to as being particularly politically correct. Contrary to your belief I am also not prone to making "irrational statements". I give my opinions based upon the chord in me that is struck without much thought as to whether not it is within the politically correct category. *So, then I might consider that you are not irrational, simply reactionary - gotcha.* quote: I don't expect for you to take my word for anything, my word means little to anyone but myself. *Here we are in agreement.* quote: I will however provide you with the links you can view to see where those statistics come from. I am sure you will be surprised to see that there is a sexual assault committed in this country every 2 minutes *Can I set my watch by this - or - are we talking 'on average'?* quote: ...and only 2 to 3% of all reported rapes are actually proven to be false claims. I have to look at these alleged statisitics. I have seen more than this average in my short lifetime... the jilted girl friend, the estranged spouse, the pissed off 'wanna-be' girlfriend. This is a poor place to debate these stats - but, I find that incredulous just based on the quantity of reports compared to the rate of conviction - or, are we talking about some other "impartial" jury of peers that has deemed these claims to be 'true' by virtue of the fact that the person speaking appears sincere? quote: But as I said, don't take my word for it. *You can see what a warm and trusting individual I am relative to people's claims on the web* quote: Many of these statistics come from the FBI and other leading Criminal Justice organizations. And, many are from organizations who's sole purpose and 'life's blood' comes from promulgating a fear factor. But, then - this is not the point of my orginal posting.... and, you are still off tangent. ~J

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 5:07:04 AM)
I did not respond to you to start a war here or even to be involved in a pissing match with you. Your stance is very clear and so is mine. My opinions obviously had no impact on yours...nor did yours mine. We could debate back and forth all day but I approached this to inform the misinformed and unlike you I refuse to sink to a level where I begin to insinuate you as an outright irrational liar. The fact is that I am very confident and do not feel a need to defend myself against your innuendo. You have no bearing on my life and your words also mean about as much to me as mine did to you. I will continue to be who I am and my opinions will be what they are.......and I am sure you will continue on your merry way and be who you are. Thank you and please drive through.

Shayna -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 7:10:56 AM)
quote: It appears to be a personal issue for them relative to the veracity and believability of their claims, the ultimate viability of the authority they should have reported the crime to, or their motivation for the report. Those are personal selection of choices on their part and does not mitigate the moral obligation of reporting that may lead to the prevention of another crime in the future. The RAINN statistics are taken from national crime victimization and FBI crime data. Why would this information be controversial? If anything, the stats are low. As a social worker I've worked with many people that are survivors of incest and sexual assault that have never reported their crimes. To not understand why men and women do not report these crimes as frequently as they occur is to not understand the extreme trauma that is caused. I think that many people would rather ignore and/or find ways to NOT believe the extent of these crimes because it brings out feelings of helplessness and makes us feel overwhelmed when we really become concious about the level of exploitation that takes place regularly in our culture. Not facing the facts is much easier than grappling with the complexity of trying to change it.

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 11:18:39 AM)
quote: I think that many people would rather ignore and/or find ways to NOT believe the extent of these crimes because it brings out feelings of helplessness and makes us feel overwhelmed when we really become concious about the level of exploitation that takes place regularly in our culture. Not facing the facts is much easier than grappling with the complexity of trying to change it. Thank you Shayna.

LordODiscipline -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 12:28:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I did not respond to you to start a war here or even to be involved in a pissing match with you. Your stance is very clear and so is mine. My opinions obviously had no impact on yours...nor did yours mine. We could debate back and forth all day but I approached this to inform the misinformed and unlike you I refuse to sink to a level where I begin to insinuate you as an outright irrational liar. The fact is that I am very confident and do not feel a need to defend myself against your innuendo. You have no bearing on my life and your words also mean about as much to me as mine did to you. I will continue to be who I am and my opinions will be what they are.......and I am sure you will continue on your merry way and be who you are. Thank you and please drive through. 1. If one individual does not have any impact on another, there is no reaction. 2. I am not doing this as a pissing match, but because I find the thing so remotely skewed from my original posting it sincerely amuses me to see what you might come up with next to place me at fault for the mistake you made in reading my post. Gotta love rationalization. 3. I was walking along my way, (quite sedately, actually) when I was suddenly struck by some PC truck which had veered off it's path and mistook me for the road - otherwise, there would not have been a collision at all. The truck driver should have read the signs before turning onto me. (This metaphor could use some work - but it is a continuation of your own). ~J

LordODiscipline -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 1:36:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shayna The RAINN statistics are taken from national crime victimization and FBI crime data. Why would this information be controversial? Playing with Statistics for Money and Profit 101: Example #1: Said the government supported organization to the applicant from the foundation: "I am going to give you three million dollars for your foundation if there is a need for it. Here are thirty thousand pages of data compiled by the people of law enforcement for you to utilize in the proof that is required to be provided before we approve your application. You may use any other institution's information as well - as long as there is some veracity to their information as approved of by our money giving organization - or - if it is not required to prove your point. If the money is approved for your foundation, then all of the information that you give is tacitly approved by us, as it must have veracity based on that approval. You may also tack on additional pages to your proof that we may or may not agree with, however... it will be a part of the whole and total proof (whether through current addendum or attachment, or through appendage after the approval)" This, then, is the reality of governmental grants and the idiocy of special interest research. Example #2: Actual Statistics as provided by those and other links: A) Statistics as a means to an end and the increase of the stat: - "Of the 17.6% of all women surveyed... ...said they had been the victim of rape or attempted rape at some time in their lives......." 'Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women, November 2000; pg 5 of 71 - The population estimate fo the US for this time and country is currently estimated by tye census beaureau at 292,459,087 ( http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock ) - Women comprise ~51% of the population => 149,154,134 and 1/3 (we will drop the third) => 26,251,127 were raped this last year (overage not adjusted for) OR: B) Statisitics as a sound bite that fails: - A woman is raped every two minutes in the US (attributed to the US Department of Justice - http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm ) - there are 365 days in the year - there are 24 hours in a day - there are 60 minutes in an hour => 3652460/2 = 262,800 (seems we lost a few million and perhaps the grant - although it does give an individual a sincere 'feel' to develop empathy Statistics are fine - they provide information about what has occured. But, they are very often misused by people who have an agenda, do not understand the data and it's limitations (there are always inherent limitations - otherwise the US Justice Department would not disallow association with the results that were found on that wonderful report through their disclaimer on page 4 of 7 (op cit) Hence the doubting of a national icon of numbers. I mean - how many weapons of mass destruction are in Iraq? quote: If anything, the stats are low. As a social worker I've worked with many people that are survivors of incest and sexual assault that have never reported their crimes. *This is subjective and not "proof".* quote: To not understand why men and women do not report these crimes as frequently as they occur is to not understand the extreme trauma that is caused. I think that many people would rather ignore and/or find ways to NOT believe the extent of these crimes because it brings out feelings of helplessness and makes us feel overwhelmed when we really become concious about the level of exploitation that takes place regularly in our culture. Not facing the facts is much easier than grappling with the complexity of trying to change it. No issue with what you are saying - it is all proven through the studies I am aware of... but, that is not my issue. The world is ugly at times, and I do not exactly need reminders of this... only seeking accuracy - and, the data provided is definitively circumspect through many more as[ects than we have covered here. ~J

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 3:34:40 PM)
You know what, you're absolutely right! We have no problem with rape in this country and all of the newbies in this lifestyle and all of the women picking up men in bars or walking alone on city streets or just peaqcefully sleeping in their beds have absolutely nothing to fear. There are no dangerous people on the internet or in real life. The whole rape thing is just a product of our hysterical female minds or an attempt for people to make money. All of the facts and statistics are just feeble attempts to line someone's pocket. Everyone from myself to the FBI is just making it all up......it's all been just a big hoax. So now you can all relax. There....hope you feel better. Now you can go and stick your head back into the sand where you seem to be most comfortable. It must be nice to be so self absorbed that you can't even imagine the possibility of another's reality.

Shayna -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 4:05:52 PM)
quote: Thank you Shayna. Hugs [:)]

LordODiscipline -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/12/2005 8:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin You know what, you're absolutely right! We have no problem with rape in this country and all of the newbies in this lifestyle and all of the women picking up men in bars or walking alone on city streets or just peaqcefully sleeping in their beds have absolutely nothing to fear. There are no dangerous people on the internet or in real life. The whole rape thing is just a product of our hysterical female minds or an attempt for people to make money. All of the facts and statistics are just feeble attempts to line someone's pocket. Everyone from myself to the FBI is just making it all up......it's all been just a big hoax. So now you can all relax. There....hope you feel better. Now you can go and stick your head back into the sand where you seem to be most comfortable. It must be nice to be so self absorbed that you can't even imagine the possibility of another's reality. quote: us Again - You misquote and mirepresent what I am saying in order to make it appear that it is not incorrect and I am somehow a heartless beast. Interesting tactic - but, ineffective and sadly lazy. ~J

GrandpaLash -> RE: BDSM Safety Proceedures (2/13/2005 8:31:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline Thank you for the qualifier - you are absolutely correct. ~J And precisely how I, for one, read it. I think Misty has let her very real concerns for victims confuse her as to Lord of Discipline's meaning here. The 'urban myth' and what the sociologists call 'moral panics' can affect us all. Grandpa Lash

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