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normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:00:08 AM

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As a kind of follow up to the thread I started a few weeks ago on having difficulty communicating, I would like to hear the opinions of others about something.

I wrote a long email to a Dominant I have seen a few times, explaining the hard time I have sometimes when it comes to talking with someone I feel very submissive towards. I went on to tell him some of the concerns I have about seeing him again (he wants to see me again this month). This is more of a casual relationship, I guess you would call it, we play a few times a year, but I still need to feel I can talk to him about the struggles I have when we scene. I was very clear that I feel lost and almost abandoned after a session, and that I don't deal with this very well. He is a man of few words and typically walks out of the dungeon without saying more than "I'll be back later.' and I really have a tendency to beat myself up badly, thinking I disappointed him in some way. I just can't get used to it. I expressed my desire for more feedback, for more talking, for a little more contact after the sessions. I haven't received a firm committment from him to work on this aspect.

I enjoy the sessions themselves as he is a very experienced and heavy player, and I like the challenge of physically pushing myself that hard. It is only afterwards when I feel like I am left hanging. If it were a play party and I was playing with him, I could handle it better as I would have my other friends for support, but he lives across the country and I visit for several days when I see him with limited contact with my friends back home. Because I don't feel like I get any support from him after the sessions, when I go home I drop SOOO badly and it takes days and days and days to feel like myself again.

My question is... when playing with an occasional, more or less casual partner, is his behavior common? How would you handle this situation? This is the first person I have played with outside of a committed relationship, and I am just not sure what is usually done. I have an opinion already, but I want to get input from others before making a final decision.

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:04:26 AM

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I would not know how to advise you since I don't believe in playing casually for that very reason. I have to feel connected with someone on a deeper trust level and investing yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually with someone so infrequent and casual can be more negative than positive. I am not saying all people who play casually have this issue, but you seem to be struggling with a non communicative person who is not recognizing your deeper needs.

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(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:05:22 AM

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His behavior is common for him. Accept it.

The pre and post part of the scene IS part of the scene. If the whole experience isn't fulfilling for you, then don't do it. I'm sure there are other great options out there for you.

I'd handle it by finding someone else to play with in a casual sense who I would enjoy the ENTIRE experience with.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:09:28 AM

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I'm supposing you have heard of aftercare. I don't suspect everyone needs it, but you apparently do (and rightfully so). You are also aware that this is the thing you are NOT getting.

I'm thinking that this, ultimately, is irresponsible behavior on the part of the dominant. When two people play, in SM terms, it is apparent that the body 'trauma' is going to occur. People who know what they are doing accept that risk and continue doing what they do. But some people need to understand that bodyplay is not 'all' about the body. The reason why you enjoy what you do has as much, if not more, to do with how it makes you 'feel', in your mind as well as your body.

It should be said, then, that the dominant has to be able to keep your 'mind' safe, just as he looks after your body during the scene.

And yet, sadly, he is not.

You understand that your physical manifestations are not in danger, but that's not your question. You are missing something 'vital' from the relationship, no matter how occasional it is.

Understand this is why I gave up 'casual' play many moons ago. It is just too easy to get inside someone's head, and to do so casually isn't all that responsible.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:25:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

His behavior is common for him. Accept it.

I'd handle it by finding someone else to play with in a casual sense who I would enjoy the ENTIRE experience with.

Perfectly put - this is His standard and MO. If it does not work for you, you should attempt to find someone (for casual scening or committed relationship) who believes pre and post care and play.

And don't understand it as a weakness on your part - it is who you are and what you need.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:30:34 AM

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Casual play oes not have to have this additional problem, he roblem is eople do a sucky job of negotiations when they play casually.
They might do good job on the first part but too many forget to address what aftercare they expect to give and recieve.
But that is not universal, I know many casual play people who do a very good job of negotiations for single scenes
SOunds like it is time to negotiate for aftercare expectations.

(in reply to mstrjx)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:57:55 AM

Totalmaster4you

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In your question I didn't see if your casual partner responded to your long email. I'm guessing he didn't because your question would have been answered if he had. If I'm right, you want more than he is willing to give. If I were advising you (and I guess I am) I would tell you to stop seeing anyone casually because it sounds like you are damaging your psyche. you sound like you want an LTR so go find it and don't settle for anything less. Good luck in your search.

(in reply to Archer)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 12:14:41 PM

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It seems like you are not getting the after care you need. He should understand that concept. Talk to him in terms of after care. If he is not interested in your needs than you should not continue with him.

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 12:24:49 PM

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Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Like I said, I enjoy the play part. I would normally say a sit down, face to face, talk would be in order, but with 2500 miles between us, that is kind of hard and I am not keen on the idea of flying out there only to have that talk and not resolve things to a point I can live with. I was hoping the email would be a way of doing that, and he did reply, briefly, to say how much he appreciated my efforts in opening up to him, but no, he did not address my concerns specifically.

I am torn as to what I want to do. On one hand, I really, really want the intensity of the play we do. On the other, I am not content to just feel cast aside when he is finished. I don't think casual play necessarily has to be so cold and distant, but I do have doubts as to whether he thinks the same way.

(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 12:30:51 PM

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Sounds like negotiations are still open then, because unless and until your concerns have been addressed no agreement has been reached.
I would say that considering the available time additional E-mails would be appropriate until the questions have been answered and all issues addressed. SOou are still at the negotiation table, keep negotiating.

if he simply cant give what you need then you have your answer, if he won't then you have your answer, if he will then you again have your answer unless and until you have the answers you have to keep asking Questions.

< Message edited by Archer -- 11/27/2006 12:31:28 PM >

(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 12:36:57 PM

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It sounds like a horrible situation to be in, to be honest I could never play with a Domthat did not give me at least some aftercare, casual or otherwise.
When I go into subspace I release totally and after an intense "scene" I am incapable of speaking, there is no coherency and my legs won't support me properly, to be left whilst in that state would be devastating for me emotionally. If I had the slightest doubt the person I was playing with would not be able to care for me then I can't let go, the body can react but the mind can't release unless I know I am 100% safe and no matter what happens it will all be "made better" afterwarsds, I turn into almost a small child, often crying, shaking, in desperate need of comfert, for me the aftercare is an integral and very large part of the scene and I do not believe there is anything wrong in that.
Good luck whatever you decide and I hope things work out.

(in reply to Archer)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 12:41:21 PM

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Casual play absolutely does not have to cold or callous, or over within an hour.

But you're basically telling yourself that you don't deserve to have a FULLY enjoyable experience and are willing to settle for not having the full package just to get your kink on.

He's not a bad guy, he's just not good for you. Unless you think you should settle for someone not good for you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to amaidiamond)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 1:02:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel

On one hand, I really, really want the intensity of the play we do. On the other, I am not content to just feel cast aside when he is finished. I don't think casual play necessarily has to be so cold and distant, but I do have doubts as to whether he thinks the same way.

The thing you need to bear in mind is that there are dominants out there who can give you the intensity you already appreciate with a level of 'care' (after- as well as otherwise) that you need. You CAN have your cake and eat it, too. It might not be with this person, unless he can be convinced otherwise.

Your profile suggests a desire for a more enduring partner. You already come armed with the knowledge of the play skills you enjoy and your future to-be-named partner might require. That provides the basis for a search. With knowledge of 'you' and the proper communication, you should be able to eventually find someone who meets all of your needs.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 1:04:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Casual play oes not have to have this additional problem, he roblem is eople do a sucky job of negotiations when they play casually..

Master, I really need to clean your keyboard. grin

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(in reply to Archer)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 1:27:22 PM

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Yeah, it definately sounds like your Dom needs to do some aftercare. Just tell him what you want after the scene, it may just be something as simple as he was never asked about it or he never heard of it. Of course, it could just be that he sees you as an object or someone to just scene with and doesn't want to risk getting too attached. Either way, a long conversation is in order.

(in reply to Elegant)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 2:55:35 PM

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I don't put up with doms that don't do aftercare. A dom walking away like that would be breaking one of my hard limits.

(in reply to amaidiamond)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 3:16:31 PM

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you seem to really need someone to just cuddle, caress etc after play.. does he at least bring you water, make sure your warm and comfy before leaving.. if not.. you really need to find someone else...

some guys, and shock horror not just doms ( wink) are not good at being soft gentle and caring, but if he isnt at least makign sure your basic needs are met, then he is just using you for his pleasure with no concern about your heatlh, safety and yous mind..all in all... not a good guy to be around in any kind of lifestyle...just my 2 cents worth

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 3:21:31 PM

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What he does and how he does it is based on "his stuff". How you react to it is "your stuff". The nice thing is, our stuff is designed to give us clues about what is and isn't fulfilling to us...and have us look at it.

There's not a lot you can do to change his stuff. you can ask that he give you more aftercare, but, in the end, the decisions is his. What you can do is look at your stuff. If you find that your need for aftercare is something that you cannot, or do not wish to, change, the question then is: what are you willing to sell in order to maintain the relationship? Are you willing to ignore your desire for more tenderness in order to have him in your life? For some, yes is a valid option. For others, it's not. Only you can decide.

Master Fire

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(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 4:50:41 PM

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quote:

My question is... when playing with an occasional, more or less casual partner, is his behavior common? How would you handle this situation? This is the first person I have played with outside of a committed relationship, and I am just not sure what is usually done. I have an opinion already, but I want to get input from others before making a final decision.

Without his imput, that could not be answered effectively. Everyone reacts to a scene differently. The first time I met Master, he left for almost the whole day. I felt bad, like I had done something wrong; but, it was just his way of dealing with the intensity that was between us. I realized this later on, and it's something that I have come to accept as part of his behavior.

Your best bet is just to keep communicating this with him and find out why he leaves in such a manner. Chances are that it has NOTHING to do with you, but rather how he processes things.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
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Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to wingedangel)

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 5:41:57 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Like I said, I enjoy the play part. I would normally say a sit down, face to face, talk would be in order, but with 2500 miles between us, that is kind of hard and I am not keen on the idea of flying out there only to have that talk and not resolve things to a point I can live with. I was hoping the email would be a way of doing that, and he did reply, briefly, to say how much he appreciated my efforts in opening up to him, but no, he did not address my concerns specifically.

I am torn as to what I want to do. On one hand, I really, really want the intensity of the play we do. On the other, I am not content to just feel cast aside when he is finished. I don't think casual play necessarily has to be so cold and distant, but I do have doubts as to whether he thinks the same way.

You've received some good answers so far.

No, you are right...casual play does not have to mean emotionless play nor does it have to mean that the responsibility for the physical and mental well-being of the submissive, or the dominant for that matter, have to be cast aside at the end of the play. As others have noted, that does appear to be his M.O. though. You can either change yourself and become inured to his after-play behavior or you can let it be known that you do not wish to change the vulnerability you feel after a scene nor try to swallow down the need you have for some "down-comfort-help me back to a 'human' level again'- time" with the dominant who took you to a level that you need help back from. It is not wrong on your part to want this. It is not necessarily wrong on his part...though I personally disagree with it...to be who he is. It IS wrong, without a beneficial-to-the-other change in one of you, to continue on in this manner as right now, I see only one person ending up hurt or sadly, cynical and callous...and that would be you.

(in reply to wingedangel)

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