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How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 2:36:18 PM

FiestyFi

Posts: 13
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline

Hi, I like to think I’m a feisty submissive, someone who isn’t a complete pushover, but a bit of a challenge. Who enjoys pleasing and making a dom pleased. At the same time I don’t want to lose my identity, views or principles.

To me I’m sexually submissive, not a submissive in everyday life. I don’t want to be a cook, cleaner, maid, or doormat. I want to be an equal, with equal rights. I want to help make important relationship decisions, and important life decisions.

That said I’m quite happy for a dom to chose what I do, where and when, what I wear and what I eat, I find that a powerful exchange between the opposite sex. But being responsible for a Dom’s everyday life, including, cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, etc is not something I want to sign up for 365 days of the year 24/7. Unless married, or in some very long term relationship and even then it’s not something I want my role to be! I’m quite the feminist, so I don’t like the role of a weaker woman, who does all these things.

Don’t get me wrong I enjoy doing them sometimes, if I know a certain thing will please my dom, then I will go to great length's to do that. I enjoy pleasing people in general, pleasing a dom guy is just as exciting to me.

To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input?

Can you just be sexually submissive? Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing?
Do I have to drop being a feminist? Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat?

N.B I’m not some mad woman who is going to through myself in front of a horse for the feminist cause. It’s just some certain beliefs that I have! I'm a complete sub newbie, forgive me if I offend.

Post #: 1

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 2:42:09 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

One can be a doormat and still be a very good healthy person.

You can have whatever it is you want to have and be whatever it is you want to be.

Why do you believe a woman is weaker because of choosing to be in the position that you speak?

If a person is being true to themselves, they are being stronger than a great majority of people alive today.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 2

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 2:53:24 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I was afraid of giving so much over that I would lose my identity. The irony about that is at the time, I didn't even really know what my identity was. My submission to my Master has grown in a a slow evolution, in which he very gradually took over more and more. He continues to do so, and it seems the more he takes over, the more I find inside myself to give over, and the more content I become. I am at a point where it is my true nature to be completely owned and taken over by him, to submit to him in any way he wants, and to do exactly what he says. I have never been so strong and fulfilled in my life.

There was a comment in another thread today about this kind of submission being "thoughtless." For me it has been the most thought provoking, mentally and emotionally challenging and wonderful inner growth process I have ever embarked upon. The conversations he and I engage in are interesting and stimulating. The only time I feel like an actual "doormat" is when I am laying before his feet as he wipes them on me. And that's one of the biggest rushes in the world!!

Everyone needs to find what works best for them. Sometimes we evolve into places we did not know we would ever reach. If a few years ago someone said I would be writing these sentiments today, I would have said they were crazy. Who knew, lol.

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 3

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 3:10:34 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

You are who you are (how profound!).
And there is a Dom out there who is looking for a girl like you. It may take a while and perhaps some heart ache before you find him. One of the more important things is self-awareness and being able to identify what you are looking for in a partner.
Good luck with your search.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 4

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 3:23:01 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FiestyFi

To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input?

It depends on how you and your Dominant set the relationship up. If you feel you need to have control over certain areas of your life, make that known right from the beginning. If they don't agree that they're willing to give you that control, they're not a match and you can move on.

quote:

Can you just be sexually submissive? Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing?

It's not an "all or nothing" kind of thing. You can be submissive to any degree you want.

quote:

Do I have to drop being a feminist?

Last time I checked, feminism was about women having the power to choose for themselves. If you choose to be submissive, you have exercised that power.

quote:

Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat?

Only if you deside that's your destiny.

What I suggest is writing down the things that aren't negotiable for you. What are deal breakers for you? What things are important to you that you just can't give up? What do you want to give up? etc. etc. The more you figure out about yourself, the better your chance of finding someone who's a good match.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 5

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 3:54:03 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FiestyFi

Hi, I like to think I’m a feisty submissive, someone who isn’t a complete pushover, but a bit of a challenge. Who enjoys pleasing and making a dom pleased. At the same time I don’t want to lose my identity, views or principles.

To me I’m sexually submissive, not a submissive in everyday life. I don’t want to be a cook, cleaner, maid, or doormat. I want to be an equal, with equal rights. I want to help make important relationship decisions, and important life decisions.

That said I’m quite happy for a dom to chose what I do, where and when, what I wear and what I eat, I find that a powerful exchange between the opposite sex. But being responsible for a Dom’s everyday life, including, cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, etc is not something I want to sign up for 365 days of the year 24/7. Unless married, or in some very long term relationship and even then it’s not something I want my role to be! I’m quite the feminist, so I don’t like the role of a weaker woman, who does all these things.

Don’t get me wrong I enjoy doing them sometimes, if I know a certain thing will please my dom, then I will go to great length's to do that. I enjoy pleasing people in general, pleasing a dom guy is just as exciting to me.

To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input?

Can you just be sexually submissive? Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing?
Do I have to drop being a feminist? Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat?

N.B I’m not some mad woman who is going to through myself in front of a horse for the feminist cause. It’s just some certain beliefs that I have! I'm a complete sub newbie, forgive me if I offend.

You're a girl, so you'll get different responses than if you'd been a guy asking the same question.

Girls get all kinds of "you GO girl" responses...guys get "get over it" responses...nevertheless...your question is more than valid.

Here's my thoughts on your post:

Fuck em.

Ain't nothing wrong with having an opinion (and I'm confident, more than several will have an ongoing debate as to whether or not I'm "actually sub").

Fuck those people too.

Women (female subs) are more likely to follow a generic path as to what's deemed as "submissive". You were raised to clean, accomodate, and be accomodating.

More is therefore excpected of you in that venue.

It needn't be.

Don't let the world's assumptions be your predominance.

Fuck those assholes that seem to want you to be who their world view predominates.

Be yourself.

That's enough.

Everyday.

(Fuck 'em).

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 12/9/2006 3:57:19 PM >

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 6

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 4:20:46 PM

darksdesire

Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

Yeah, I can be a doormat. I hate to admit it, but there it is. Fortunately my Master doesn't abuse this tendency in me. He is actually pretty protective in making sure I have lots of input, because he knows I am not likely to offer it on my own. It's one of the things that makes our relationship work so well.

I am a feminist. I'm also a pushover, and a little easy to take advantage of. In other words, I hold firmly to feminist values but I simply don't have the fiesty, assertive personality that enables me to draw the line when a line needs to be drawn. But, that's me, and it's what i'm stuck with, and I am just fortunate enough to have a Master who understands this, loves it, and never takes advantage of it.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 7

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 4:34:46 PM

Caitriona

Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
Last time I checked, feminism was about women having the power to choose for themselves. If you choose to be submissive, you have exercised that power.

That has been the hardest thing for me to realize in terms of the power exchange. A lot of it comes from the way that I was raised (by an assertive single mother who believes to depend on a man is wrong), but it has really come down to my figuring out what I wanted instead of trying to do what everyone else wanted, no matter if it was my mother or my husband.

You know MasterFireMaam, that simple statement says it so clearly. I may have to quote you on that one day. Thanks!

_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 4:38:58 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

just another POV to consider should you wish to.

some folks think doormats are sexy as all get out....some men want them and some women wish to be them

some folks think a SAM (smarts assed masso) or a brat is the hottest thing on two wheels....

and some folks like/ need/ desire a weekend warrior and or bedroom submissive

thing is, there is no hard and fast rules as to what you think is sexy,and to what you wish to create in your relationship.

it may look from the outside looking in as if you have very little control when you enter a DS reatlionship...but in fact by the time that level of control has been given up, you are looking at a finely crafted work in progress.

the D and the s, have spent hours, weeks, days and maybe years working on issues, negotiating, communicating, dream building, making mistakes, and learning each other and crafting the dynamics to suit the needs of both people.

the stuff where a dom comes in makes all the rules and the sub has no say really is more for fairy tales, and sexy fiction.

if you want your relationship to last a long time and grow together in partnership....then you have to to do the real work of negotiation, there are no shortcuts to real life.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 12/9/2006 4:41:11 PM >

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 9

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 4:42:24 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FiestyFi

To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input?

Can you just be sexually submissive? Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing?
Do I have to drop being a feminist? Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat?

I don't feel a submissive has no say. I am submissive to my dom and I have a lot of say in our relationship. Just, if he really wants something the end result often is what he wants.
Though he likes a challenge now and then. I think when you find a partner and the more you mesh the more defined your relationship will be. You will have certain roles just as they will have. When you find that person you may want to give over more control to them. They may also want you to control certain aspects of the relationship.
As far as being sexually submissive you can be anything you want as long as you find someone who wants the same thing as you do.
I don't think you have to drop being a feminist...I'm one. I make more money than most men I come in contact with, within the same field I am in. I like that. I like being their supervisor.
Just when I come home...I give my control over to him.
Submissive, slave, doormat everyone has their own ideas of what they mean. To me a doormat is nothing like a submissive. A submissive has feelings they share. They choose what they want to do and not do.
Where a doormat is just used. They don't think too much. More often than not they are with people who abuse that in them.
At least those are my definitions.

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 10

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 5:09:31 PM

RandomGAGirl

Posts: 57
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

I think you have the right to have a say in how you are treated and you will find someone out there that likes you just the way you are. I myself and happy to serve in whatever way necessary as long as I respect and trust the person I am with. Usually the person who you serve knows enough about you to know what is too much and what isn't.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 11

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 6:13:33 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caitriona

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
Last time I checked, feminism was about women having the power to choose for themselves. If you choose to be submissive, you have exercised that power.

That has been the hardest thing for me to realize in terms of the power exchange. A lot of it comes from the way that I was raised (by an assertive single mother who believes to depend on a man is wrong), but it has really come down to my figuring out what I wanted instead of trying to do what everyone else wanted, no matter if it was my mother or my husband.

You know MasterFireMaam, that simple statement says it so clearly. I may have to quote you on that one day. Thanks!

Feel free. I quote LA all the time. Even in the manual. LOL

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Caitriona)

Post #: 12

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 6:17:17 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

Well, I'm glad someone came out and admitted to being a doormat. :)

I've been more or less single for six years, so it hasn't really manifested itself, but, when I'm in a serious relationship I tend to have strong tendencies in the doormat direction. I'm a pushover and, because I know this, am very careful about getting involved with someone.

I don't really see this as a problem for me, personally. Its just who I am, and while I know enough to protect myself against unscrupulous users, I also know from experience that I can be used unscrupulously and its not as bad as people think. Thus far, I've always recovered though I try not to be too stupid.

In general, though, as far as this fear of "losing" your self, I've experimented with this, and its pretty much impossible, so far as I can tell. No matter how hard I try to dispense with my identity, it always returns to me. The one thing that always does it is the sense that I'm being disrespected or someone close to me is being disrespected. As soon as I get that feeling, I seem to instantly remember who I am, and assert myself.

(in reply to darksdesire)

Post #: 13

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 6:23:46 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

there is a huge difference between a submissive, and a sexual submissive. you clearly know were you fall, so you already know the answers to the truly important questions to YOU. although your idea of "submissive" is not entirely accurate, it doesn't much matter as that is not how you identify anyway. to be a sexual submissive requires no overall submissive personally, only the desire to submit in an erotic way only, which you seem to have. there are many who seek precisely that, as opposed to a "full time" submissive.

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 14

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 6:28:32 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

I have to ask why being one that enjoys serving in all ways just not sexually is a doormat to you? Maybe that is your defintion, but because some may choose to be what in your definition is a doormat doesn't make them a weaker or lesser of a person. You have defined what works for you and that is a good thing but please don't call women or men weaker because they enjoy a different role than you. I have say in Our relationship but his decision is the one that stands. I am fiesty but not disobedient and bratty. I enjoy giving TPE to him and that works for me. That doesn't make me a weaker person.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 12/9/2006 6:30:55 PM >

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 15

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 7:49:11 PM

whisperedsighs

Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FiestyFi

Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat?

Most the Doms I know do not like human doormats.

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 16

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 8:02:17 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Well, from my personal experience, my slave is definately not a doormat. He has given very little of himselfup to serve me, becasue when he and I met, I told him straight out I liked his personality. I did not want to lose it so that he could become an extesion of me. His having his own opinions and his own take on things has not diminished his ability to be submissive. He just had to learn how exactly to commuicate respectfully to share those things.

Yes, its possible to be only a sexual submissive. I'd dare say its easier to find someone looking just for "bedroom BDSM" than it is for someone looking to get into the true lifestyle most of the time.

Just figure out what you think you want, and what it is that you can absolutely not see yourself enjoying. Make sure that you communicate that to anyone you might be courting or courted by, an you should find at least close to what your looking for. AS a newcomer, you are going to get it wrong a few times. Even mistakes are learning experiences. You'l figure out a few things you never thought youd like that you love, and others you thought youd love that become limits.

Good luck
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

Post #: 17

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 8:29:53 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

One can be a doormat and still be a very good healthy person.

You can have whatever it is you want to have and be whatever it is you want to be.

Why do you believe a woman is weaker because of choosing to be in the position that you speak?

If a person is being true to themselves, they are being stronger than a great majority of people alive today.

I didn't read past the first two posts because I can hardly imagine anyone offering anything more worth hearing that what LA has had to say.

I think if the OP tapes that to her refriggerator door and proceeds with a rasonable blend of carefulness, adventure, imagination and heart she can't go too far wrong.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 18

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 9:07:01 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Can you just be sexually submissive?

You can be anything you want to be.

quote:

Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing?

Some need that, some do not

quote:

Do I have to drop being a feminist?

No.

quote:

Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat?

Hmmmm, you say that like it is a bad thing

Being a house-mouse is not my destiny, no matter how much part of me craves that. I have this desire to be a stepford wife type submissive person, but I can't be that because it does not mesh with other parts of my life. One part it does not mesh with is my goal to be a professor one day.

Here is the way to make a submissive journey easier in my opinion.. find someone with a very similar world view, needs, and desires in and outside of the bedroom and the rest should be no problem to negotiate, compromise, and resolved between you. I did away with words like "equal" and all those related words like "authority". We just are what we are, and for now that is seemingly working for us pretty well.

Everyone has their own idea about what they want from Ds, take what you need from what you see and read, leave the rest behind.

Good luck!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to FiestyFi)

Post #: 19

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. - 12/9/2006 9:14:04 PM

darksdesire

Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

Whisperedsighs,

Many of the Doms i've met love human doormats. Go figure. Sounds like we draw the ones that fit us best.

< Message edited by darksdesire -- 12/9/2006 9:15:15 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 20

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