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Submissive training - 12/11/2006 6:39:21 PM   
PiercedDaz


Posts: 121
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		What are peoples views on training submissives?

Are the tasks structured with aims and objectives or are they ways of a Dom/me making a submissive just do whatever they want?

I'd love to hear they views of Dom/mes and subs/slaves on this subject. Have you experienced training? Was it positive or negative? Does it increase the feeling of wanting to submit to their One?

_____________________________

"A taboo is a strong social prohibition relating to any area of human activity or social custom declared as sacred and forbidden; breaking of the taboo is usually considered objectionable or abhorrent by society"......Woohoo!!!
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 6:55:30 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		I have only had one Master and I am collared to Him currently.  He has taught me the things that are important to Him, and continues to do so.  I want to learn the things He wants to teach me, and yes, it makes want to submit more deeply to Him. 

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to PiercedDaz)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 6:55:51 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz
What are peoples views on training submissives?

I think people never stop training themselves and eachother.  Trianing a submissive is simply a way of life for me.
quote:


Are the tasks structured with aims and objectives or are they ways of a Dom/me making a submissive just do whatever they want?

That and more.  Training also encompasses HOW they think, HOW they reach the conclusions they do, HOW they go about what they do, HOW they view the world and themselves.

quote:

I'd love to hear they views of Dom/mes and subs/slaves on this subject. Have you experienced training? Was it positive or negative? Does it increase the feeling of wanting to submit to their One?

Hmmm I've never done or been trained with that as the purpose. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 7:07:33 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

What are peoples views on training submissives?

Are the tasks structured with aims and objectives or are they ways of a Dom/me making a submissive just do whatever they want?

I'd love to hear they views of Dom/mes and subs/slaves on this subject. Have you experienced training? Was it positive or negative? Does it increase the feeling of wanting to submit to their One?

I guess with my first ( late ) Master, you could call it training in the respect that I came into the relationship extremely vanilla and he knew exactly where he wanted to guide me to.

With Master now though, I would not call it training. He was happy with what I offered up front; it's just more a case of me adapting to meet his specific needs now.

edited for spelling

< Message edited by Kalira -- 12/11/2006 7:08:05 PM >

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 8:01:33 PM   
lighthearted


Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline 		since I was completely vanilla when I met Master, there has been a lot of "training" involved in our time together.  I've always felt like a left-handed person made to write with my right hand in terms of my submissiveness...so we focus sometimes on how to bring back the left-handedness.  at times it's very easy for me, but at times it requires a lot of thought and effort on my part.  I find that is when I need to put aside whatever I may be feeling at the time (generally, pride, as in "I know myself pretty darn well and I know that ain't gonna work!) and trust the fact that he is my Dom, that he knows me, and he knows what it is best for me and for us. 

I have learned a lot about myself with this approach, so it's been, for the most part, a very positive experience.  I don't think I would respond as well to the idea of always just doing whatever he said for the sake of doing it, but I'm sure I would do it anyway.  and like it.

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 8:17:53 PM   
somethndif


Posts: 136
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

What are peoples views on training submissives?

Are the tasks structured with aims and objectives or are they ways of a Dom/me making a submissive just do whatever they want?

I'd love to hear they views of Dom/mes and subs/slaves on this subject. Have you experienced training? Was it positive or negative? Does it increase the feeling of wanting to submit to their One?


I have never understood the whole discussion of "training' a submissive.  We are talking about people, presumably intelligent people.  If I want my submissive to do something, I tell her to do it.  If I want her to do it in a particular way, I tell her and she does it, or there are consequences.  You train dogs and horses, not people.

I have noticed that the discussion of training is usually in the abstract, usually no discussion of what the submissive is specifically being trained to do. 

Now I do think you can introduce a submissive to new things, ass-fucking or canes, as two examples, for those who have never done it.  But I don't see that as training.  *shrug*

YMMV,

Dan 

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 8:35:03 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		some folks love protocol, language, titles, training its another example of what some of us call learning.
He learns how to control me in ways that are mutually beneficial to meeting our needs. He learns what works well, what doesnt work at all, and what makes me dig in my heels. He's learnt my limits, whats available to be pushed, what's a no go area no matter what his title is.

In order to train my Sir. Ive had to communicate, cajole, manipulate, encourage, reward, aquiesce and submit.

Training, yeah, its something you do with animals.
Im very willing to be taught how he prefers things. Maybe that's training.
As for 'the correct position to sit, stand, display etc' we dont really go in for them shinanigins, but each to their own i guess.

Unless of course, 'training' would involve a new outfit for me, with shoes perhaps? then my attention is focussed. lol

(in reply to somethndif)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 9:14:31 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: somethndif

quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

What are peoples views on training submissives?

Are the tasks structured with aims and objectives or are they ways of a Dom/me making a submissive just do whatever they want?

I'd love to hear they views of Dom/mes and subs/slaves on this subject. Have you experienced training? Was it positive or negative? Does it increase the feeling of wanting to submit to their One?


I have never understood the whole discussion of "training' a submissive.  We are talking about people, presumably intelligent people.  If I want my submissive to do something, I tell her to do it.  If I want her to do it in a particular way, I tell her and she does it, or there are consequences.  You train dogs and horses, not people.

I have noticed that the discussion of training is usually in the abstract, usually no discussion of what the submissive is specifically being trained to do. 

Now I do think you can introduce a submissive to new things, ass-fucking or canes, as two examples, for those who have never done it.  But I don't see that as training.  *shrug*

YMMV,

Dan 


Agree.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to somethndif)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 10:36:43 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Then I suppose I don't have a job providing safety training to general industry?
We have Basic training of soldiers sailors and airmen, we have safety training we have pilot training, we have all sorts of training in regular everyday life for work and home. To balk at the term seems a difference with little distinction.


< Message edited by Archer -- 12/11/2006 10:40:47 PM >

(in reply to somethndif)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 11:11:14 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~fast reply~

I have no problem with the word "training."  I receive training at work all the time.  I was trained to drive my car.  I receive software training and I have lots of training manuals, in fact.  We even have a training room at work, for all the adults who get trained at our facility...we even have a "Train the Trainer" program there.

In D/s terms, I think training is just a term used to create a mindset.  Some people prefer to use words of a "degrading" type nature.  I can be called a cunt but will be offended at being trained?  Not so, in my case.  I have been trained as his pet, his slut, his companion, his slave.  I know what to do when, as I have been trained how to react.  I have been trained how to eat while with him.  I have been trained to do various sexual skills which please him greatly.  I have been trained to endure things I couldn't endure before.  I have been trained to not need aftercare like I once did. 

It's really all a matter of whether one likes the word or not. I equate being trained to being taught. 

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/11/2006 11:20:04 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I am definately TRAINING Angel. He is learning things from me that he didnt know before.  Some of them are serive-related. Some are not. Some are life skills that he will need later on that I wish him to know.  Some are behaviors I enjoy and others are ways to act in certain situations that he has not been in often (professional and personal) that I ahve experienced.  All of this is training, in my eyes.  Since he is my responsability, I collred him and took responsability for everything he does and is, I beieve that it is my charge to teach him what I think he needs to know.  All of this falls under how I want him to behave and learn to be my perfect slave, so it all fals under training.
Just my take on things, of course

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 2:32:27 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Training .... isnt that just a word for learning the other? 
How they want things done, what they like and dislike, learning to accept and try new things that they enjoy or want done?  I mean really.............  I am Human, not a Lab Rat. 

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 2:44:05 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

You train dogs and horses, not people.


Yes, I have to agree.
If a Dom is teaching his sub his likes/dislikes, I guess you could call that training.  I call it learning to serve within a relationship.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to somethndif)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 4:59:30 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Then I suppose I don't have a job providing safety training to general industry?
We have Basic training of soldiers sailors and airmen, we have safety training we have pilot training, we have all sorts of training in regular everyday life for work and home. To balk at the term seems a difference with little distinction.



As a management training specialist by profession, I thank you for your post.  Seems it's a matter of verbal gymnastics to me, also.  But then, some people have a fetish for splitting hairs and overcooking definitions.  I'd much rather spend my time and mental energy on other things besides being a self-appointed task master to the never-ending chore of mincing my words and everyone else's, for that matter.

I do train my submissive to do those things I wish her to do, when to do them and how to do them.  I train her on the basic concepts since she is very new; things like safety, effective negotiation, private and public protol.  She also receives lessons on self-esteem, her rights as a submissive, organizational skills and how to be a good lil kitten.  Mostly, I play things by ear according to her as an individual and according to the circumstance at hand as to what she needs guidance on in any particular circumstance. 

Training is an ongoing process and one can never learn too much.  Also, just as every Dominant has his/her own way, lets not overlook the basic concepts that we have in common that are transferable from one relationship to another and not just the tasks that a trained monkey could do.  Hopefully, training is always done in a loving spirit rather than a punishing one and therefore conducive to learning in a positive light.

You say "toe-may-toe" and I say "toe-mah-toe." 

LBO

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 5:19:37 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		The only time i take exception to the term "training" is when some dominant type with whom i have, nor will have any type of relationship with offers to train me as a submissive.

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 5:34:08 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I have no issue with usage of the term "training" to denote the teaching of one's personal preferences (behavioral, skill sets, etc.). 
 
I do have an issue with it's use to imply that there are universal characteristics that are valued and expected by all Dominants.  Most often this is the implication of those who wish to manipulate and exploit naiive submissives/slaves, though sometimes it is simple ignorance.
 
It's fair to note that there are (a very few) legitimate slave academies.  Some Dominants may send their slaves to acquire certain skill sets, and some slaves without Dominants may attend simply for the enjoyment of the experience and to acquire skill sets that interest them personally (understanding that they may not be specific interests of any future Master).
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 6:15:26 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I don't have a problem with the term training.  But the term to training to me denotes some sort of structure of teaching a specific skill/behavior to another.  The other side is that person is learning what another is training.

Other terms of note... are coaching/educating/teaching/

I don't have a grand structure.  General... I assess the skill/behavior that I wish my slave learn... and then I will focus on it with specific training tactics to develop the skill/behavior.

It should be noted the amount of actual training required is relative the difficult of the skills/behavior that a person is trying to learn.  Also, sometimes the basic skills/behavior is rather basic but the actual practice of such skill/behavior is rather difficult... so one needs to practice alot before the skill/behavior reachs an acceptable level.  Of course sometimes... it's simple and I just share my perference and what I want... and the slave just makes the adjustment on the dime and we are good to go.

sometimes going with the flow is required... sometimes structured training is required.

kyra is going to be learning who to do the Japanese Tea Ceremony.    Some how I don't think this is something we can just go with the flow on... I am suspecting she will need some training and will require alot of practice to prefect the skills.

I do however find it rather silly that individuals look at training like it some magic wand in creating the prefect submissive/slave.  Training is just another tool in the toolbox.  Sometimes Training is the right tool... sometimes it's not.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 7:03:08 AM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

What are peoples views on training submissives?

I think of it less as training, and more of a shared teaching- though I still use the term "training", as does my Dominant. It is a part of growing together in a relationship that allows for the submissive to learn the expectations placed on them by the Dom, to better understand each other, and to create closeness during times in which it is happening (which is ongoing, though not necessarily constant).

quote:


Are the tasks structured with aims and objectives or are they ways of a Dom/me making a submissive just do whatever they want?

I believe that I am being trained by my Dom in the aims and objectives that he has placed before me. He wants to challenge me, and so it is not merely "Do as I say"- but much more "I want you to understand this and why it is important to me, and to you, and to incorporate it into your life through repeated exercise until it becomes a seamless part of our lives." If he wants me to do something, I will do it- but if he wants me to really understand something, he will tell me why he wants me to do it and how, specifically, he would like it done.

quote:


Have you experienced training?

I am currently undergoing training with my Dominant, which is a stage he requires before I can earn his collar when he sees that I am ready for that committment.

quote:


Was it positive or negative?

For me, it has been an incredibly positive experience- I have enjoyed the closeness we share during this process, and have gained much personal knowledge and benefit from it. Since my training has involved everything from learning how he would like to present myself to him and to others in different situations, learning his requirements, protocols, and desires, reading specific books and discussing them with him because he believes they will benefit our understanding of ourselves and each other, learning about things he wants me to know and understand, and just spending time together doing whatever task he asks of me, I have enjoyed the process quite a bit, and I believe he has as well.

quote:


Does it increase the feeling of wanting to submit to their One?

It does, for me. It increases it by having it asked of me. It increases more than anything because he is willing and happy to spend the time going through this process with me, and the time we share brings us closer together. In training, it is almost as if this is amplified somehow- as it is possible of creating more of a bond than just time spent in the presence of the other person in and of itself- it is an active role in understanding, teaching and learning with and from each other. This approach greatly increases my desire to submit to my Dom.

Hope this helps (and I have enjoyed reading the responses- thank you)-
behindmirrors.

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 7:13:15 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, I'm not sure of the resistance against the word training either (although I agree, it's certainly not as universally applicable as most seem to make it).  Athletes train.  I was trained to have good manners and good handwriting.  Racists are trained to think in certain patterns and see the world in certain ways.  Children of alcoholics are trained to behave in specific and often predictable patterns which extend far into adulthood.

It's hard for me to specify training I've done on my partners because I don't lay out a regimented program or have a list of specific goals (though there are a few).  However, if you had seen my partners behaviors and thought processes two years ago as compared to now, you'd see a truly remarkable difference.  And I know that it is in large part due to my conscious effort and work at training him.

Another example is my mother.  I am her baby and always will be.  But I had to train her over time to accept me as I am and deal with my own choices on my own terms.  It didn't come naturally to her and if I had simply pushed it all the way out, it would have caused a lot more unnecessary distress.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to behindmirrors)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Submissive training - 12/12/2006 7:16:03 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think part of resistance comes from Doms who say things like:  "I am a trainer of sluts."  My opinion is much like Rover's on this.  There are no universal  skills that can be trained.  And I continue to think that a lot of guys hide behind "trainer" as a means of taking advantage of naive subs/slaves, who think they need training, when all he wants is sex.  My first question to any "trainer" would be "How can you train me for a future relationship (Master)?"  The answer is, he can't.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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