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RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:02:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave8544

I guess I don't understand why an x wife has anything to say about him leaving. Divorce is giving up those rights! Just my opinion. Dave

It's not even an ex-wife, it's an ex-girlfriend...

And the whole reason is that she has threated to commit suicide if he leaves - she's attempted before, unsuccessfully of course, and she has promised that if he waits until she's "ok" then she won't commit suicide. He is the kind of person that can't bear to think that he might, somehow, in some alternate universe, be responsible for something like this, so he won't leave ..... he also won't do what she really needs and have her put away on a psych hold for awhile (and yes, I talked to him about it, and gave him the information that he needed to do it) - he feels like that would be a worse betrayal than just leaving ... even though it is what she really needs.

(in reply to Dave8544)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:06:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bigbossman4u

LOL Not to mention your boys' luck!

Hope it all works out either with this prospect or another

best,
Joshua

Yeah, pretty much LOL

Thanks

(in reply to Bigbossman4u)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:29:21 AM

NATI

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quote:

he also won't do what she really needs and have her put away on a psych hold for awhile (and yes, I talked to him about it, and gave him the information that he needed to do it) - he feels like that would be a worse betrayal than just leaving ...

This sounds like the classic co-dependant relationship. He is going to be a hero and stay there to 'prevent' her from commiting suicide, and everytime he gets a twinge or itch to move on with his life - this theme is going to recurr. Unfortunately, people who are IN these relationships have real trouble seeing them for what they are.

I had a boyfriend do something very similar when I was 19 or so. Finally, after walking around in silence for two weeks or so, I told my mother 'why' I was still in this miserable go-nowhere 'relationship'. She handed me a strand of rope and told me to give it to him with the words, "How DARE you attempt to make me responsible for something so stupid. If you want to hang yourself, have at it."

He didn't. He watched me walk out of his life with his mouth agape. But even if he did - what my mother said was so right on. I was NOT responsible for what this man chose or did not choose to do with his life. I was NOT responsible for his happiness (or lack thereof) or of his suicidal ideations. I would not recommend handing this young lady a rope. (Now that I am a bit older, I DO understand more fully my mother's outrage over this) Rather, I would recommend handing her a card for her nearest mental health clinic, and call it done.

If he can't do that - he will likely lose you. And that perhaps will be the wake-up call he needs. But for your own sake, don't get caught up in this. You showed him the direction he needs to go in. He needs to make his own mind up and extact himself from her manipulations, or stay and remain her puppet.

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(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:34:27 AM

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Yeah, we know - that's why I gave him the information that he needed ... not that I think he will really use it, but oh well. I have done my part, now it's up to him to do his and get his ass here or let us get on with our lives. We explained to him during our 2 hour conversation/fight last night that we NEED someone here, and we WANT it to be him, but we have been turning other people away since we invited him for his visit ... people who would love to have the opportunity that he is wasting. I don't know if it will be enough, but if it's not, then we have 5 others just drooling in anticipation of getting a chance at his spot with us.

(in reply to NATI)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:45:06 AM

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quote:

And the whole reason is that she has threated to commit suicide if he leaves - she's attempted before, unsuccessfully of course, and she has promised that if he waits until she's "ok" then she won't commit suicide. He is the kind of person that can't bear to think that he might, somehow, in some alternate universe, be responsible for something like this, so he won't leave ..... he also won't do what she really needs and have her put away on a psych hold for awhile (and yes, I talked to him about it, and gave him the information that he needed to do it) - he feels like that would be a worse betrayal than just leaving ... even though it is what she really needs.

If this is indeed the case for his staying, and not just an excuse (not a positive assumption mind you, I obviously don't know the guy). Then it sounds to me like you are *really* fighting an uphill battle. this guy, if honest, is clearly and severely codependent in nature. Not only will his codependency prevent him from leaving her, but even if by some miracle he did, he would hardly be the right match for you and Holly. I am sure there are many many codependent submissives (mroeso than dominants, I'd presume) that are in wiitwd, but it's not a healthy state of mind.

I think you are doing the right thing by issuing the ultimatum, but you may want to bring this aspect up wtih him. Find out if he is even aware of it, if he's willing to address it. If you choose this route, have no expectaitons. If you care for this guy, it may be worth it. though understand he won't be capable of a healthy relationship for some time. either way, you may want to send him (or have him purchase) a copy of 'Codependent No More' by Melody Beattie. It's a very insightful book that has brought both initial awareness and workable solutions to more than a few codependent friends I have known personally. I've also read it and it's a worthwhile investment if you care for this guy. Keep in mind, it may be years before he is ready to address it even after "diagnosis" of his condition is accepted (if accepted). It's often liek alcoholism, the person suffering is often the last to realize it.

Again best of luck,

Joshua

_____________________________

"Egotism is the anesthetic which nature gives us to deaden the pain of being a fool." - Dr Herbert Schofield

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:46:18 AM

NATI

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Well, good. Good luck whichever way this turns out.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 10:50:46 AM

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Bossman - yes, he knows that he has codependent tendencies, and he is trying to work on them (so he says). We have discussed it before.

and Nati, thanks ...

I really don't think that he is going to come, we are afraid that he will piss around and try to make us just give up on him so that the responsibility isn't on him. But dammit, he is going to say it, one way or the other ... he is going to make the decision whether he likes it or not. I'm so fucking tired of this ...

(in reply to Bigbossman4u)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 11:01:10 AM

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Not wasting any further time/energy/emotions on this guy is the call. You know the outcome. :( Try to stay positive and optimistic on your search.

Best
Joshua

< Message edited by Bigbossman4u -- 2/19/2005 11:02:50 AM >

_____________________________

"Egotism is the anesthetic which nature gives us to deaden the pain of being a fool." - Dr Herbert Schofield

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 11:11:25 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I really don't think that he is going to come, we are afraid that he will piss around and try to make us just give up on him so that the responsibility isn't on him. But dammit, he is going to say it, one way or the other ... he is going to make the decision whether he likes it or not. I'm so fucking tired of this ...

I don't blame you for being tired of this. I have had applicants do this to Me before also. Hem and haw around, and then make statements like "I won't blame you if you tell Me you won't talk to me anymore" or "I know I am failing you so just let me know if you want me to get lost". It makes Me mad. Sometimes I can force them to admit they are not ready...sometimes not. Either way, I can't worry about every sub applicant who comes to Me and then never follows through. This is why I try to weed through them as quickly as possible. I know it is disappointing, but I am dealing with a similar situation right now. he will never be ready, because he just has too many other committments, but he is trying to lay it all one Me, when all I want is some regular, quick emails. It is hard to invest the time and effort and affection, and then be disappointed.
I do kinda hate the long distance situations for that very reason!
Best of luck. My thoughts are with you.

_____________________________

Dusty
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/19/2005 11:58:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI

I had a boyfriend do something very similar when I was 19 or so. Finally, after walking around in silence for two weeks or so, I told my mother 'why' I was still in this miserable go-nowhere 'relationship'. She handed me a strand of rope and told me to give it to him with the words, "How DARE you attempt to make me responsible for something so stupid. If you want to hang yourself, have at it."

That's the best response I've seen to this situation. It still horrifies me that people do such awful things to others...although if you look on another thread (lifespan of a Ds relationship) some people basically believe that once you enter into a relationship, unless you die, it IS immoral and wrong to leave.

Go mom!

(in reply to NATI)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/20/2005 12:28:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I don't blame you for being tired of this. I have had applicants do this to Me before also. Hem and haw around, and then make statements like "I won't blame you if you tell Me you won't talk to me anymore" or "I know I am failing you so just let me know if you want me to get lost". It makes Me mad. Sometimes I can force them to admit they are not ready...sometimes not. Either way, I can't worry about every sub applicant who comes to Me and then never follows through. This is why I try to weed through them as quickly as possible. I know it is disappointing, but I am dealing with a similar situation right now. he will never be ready, because he just has too many other committments, but he is trying to lay it all one Me, when all I want is some regular, quick emails. It is hard to invest the time and effort and affection, and then be disappointed.
I do kinda hate the long distance situations for that very reason!
Best of luck. My thoughts are with you.

We normally do weed them out with the required visit before we decide anything ... most of them vanish when we bring it up, apparently prefering to stay online only, even though we are clear about wanting this to be r/t only. So the fact that he came - for three weeks - seemed to be a positive sign that he was going to work out (well, since the visit went well and we didn't hate him).

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/20/2005 2:53:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I don't blame you for being tired of this. I have had applicants do this to Me before also. Hem and haw around, and then make statements like "I won't blame you if you tell Me you won't talk to me anymore" or "I know I am failing you so just let me know if you want me to get lost". It makes Me mad. Sometimes I can force them to admit they are not ready...sometimes not. Either way, I can't worry about every sub applicant who comes to Me and then never follows through. This is why I try to weed through them as quickly as possible. I know it is disappointing, but I am dealing with a similar situation right now. he will never be ready, because he just has too many other committments, but he is trying to lay it all one Me, when all I want is some regular, quick emails. It is hard to invest the time and effort and affection, and then be disappointed.
I do kinda hate the long distance situations for that very reason!
Best of luck. My thoughts are with you.

We normally do weed them out with the required visit before we decide anything ... most of them vanish when we bring it up, apparently prefering to stay online only, even though we are clear about wanting this to be r/t only. So the fact that he came - for three weeks - seemed to be a positive sign that he was going to work out (well, since the visit went well and we didn't hate him).

One required visit? It would take me at least one visit to even decide if there is any sense in pursuing the relationship. I'ld say 4 or 5 visits, and you should have a pretty good feel for the real person, not the online persona. And there has got to be more than "went well, didn't hate him" to base a long term relationship on!

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/20/2005 9:40:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

here are a whole lot of people in this enviorment that are unable to actualise their desires, that are unable to make the step to what they want.

i agree, there are a lot of people who hide behind the "safety" of the internet to "live out" their fantacies,
so Emeraldslave2's question about how much real time you have together is a valid one.....regardless, it sounds like you are down 2 sub's
a friend of mine has aslo has fibro myalgia. i wish Holly well

(in reply to topcat)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/20/2005 10:27:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

One required visit? It would take me at least one visit to even decide if there is any sense in pursuing the relationship. I'ld say 4 or 5 visits, and you should have a pretty good feel for the real person, not the online persona. And there has got to be more than "went well, didn't hate him" to base a long term relationship on!

Because of distance, yes, there was only one required visit. We are in Indiana, he is in Washington. For money issues and scheduling, when he was able to spend the three weeks here, we decided that should be enough (Holly and I did) because in three weeks, there isn't a whole lot that he'd be able to hide from us entirely ... It was cheaper that way, versus making him fly out repeatedly. I also visited him there for just under a week when I had a chance to, but again, because of costs, I couldn't afford to fly out more than the once.

It sucks, but it happens. I know people who have only done online until they were able to live together because of the same reasons that we only required one visit from him and it has worked quite well (and yes, I do know that they are the exception, but hey, I can hope that we would be one too). For most, we do require more than just one visit (although none but him and the other boy that we collared - on the first visit as well, I shoudl probably add - made it to a second visit ... they all pussed out one way or another, most before the first visit).

(in reply to MsSilvie)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/20/2005 12:04:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

One required visit? It would take me at least one visit to even decide if there is any sense in pursuing the relationship. I'ld say 4 or 5 visits, and you should have a pretty good feel for the real person, not the online persona. And there has got to be more than "went well, didn't hate him" to base a long term relationship on!

Because of distance, yes, there was only one required visit. We are in Indiana, he is in Washington. For money issues and scheduling, when he was able to spend the three weeks here, we decided that should be enough (Holly and I did) because in three weeks, there isn't a whole lot that he'd be able to hide from us entirely ... It was cheaper that way, versus making him fly out repeatedly. I also visited him there for just under a week when I had a chance to, but again, because of costs, I couldn't afford to fly out more than the once.

It sucks, but it happens. I know people who have only done online until they were able to live together because of the same reasons that we only required one visit from him and it has worked quite well (and yes, I do know that they are the exception, but hey, I can hope that we would be one too). For most, we do require more than just one visit (although none but him and the other boy that we collared - on the first visit as well, I shoudl probably add - made it to a second visit ... they all pussed out one way or another, most before the first visit).

Three weeks still isn't a whole lot of time to make that sort of decision. Everyone is in that honeymoon period, and on their best behavior. I won't tell anyone that I've even made a decision to play (much less live together) after a single visit (regardless of the duration). Everyone needs to go home, give it some thought, and decide if they want to continue. For me, the extra time and expense of scheduling a few meetings is more than offset by what you end up paying in disapointment and unrealized hopes.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/20/2005 5:25:31 PM

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It is always discouraging to run into situations like that where one person is keeping the other hostage through threats of suicide. It is so difficult to get the person to realize and accept that they must walk away from it.

I remember My ex-husband using that threat when he tried to force Me to move back in. My answer was: "Hurry up and do it then because I am busy closing the store". When he walked back in 10 minutes later I greeted him with the comment: "What! you are still alive?" he turned around and left without saying a word. The key though was that I knew it was just a threat. he had made the threats on a regular basis and never carried them out.

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RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/21/2005 8:58:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie
Three weeks still isn't a whole lot of time to make that sort of decision. Everyone is in that honeymoon period, and on their best behavior. I won't tell anyone that I've even made a decision to play (much less live together) after a single visit (regardless of the duration). Everyone needs to go home, give it some thought, and decide if they want to continue. For me, the extra time and expense of scheduling a few meetings is more than offset by what you end up paying in disapointment and unrealized hopes.

I'm aware that three weeks still isn't a whole lot of time, but it was one of those gut things ... we had done it with our first boy and he was only there for 4 days the first visit. We had a feeling and we went with it ... we did not collar him on day three like we did with our first, but we did before he left. As I said before, because of distance and expense, we only asked for one extended visit and not repeated shorter visits - and it wasn't just that we didn't hate him ... obviously or I wouldn't give a shit about this mess now ... we care for him, deeply. He claims to feel the same, but apparently, it's not enough for him to get his head out of his ass.

And just as an update, we told him on Friday that he had a week ... we haven't heard from him since. I'm kinda guessing that we aren't going to, but you know what? If he hasn't called by the time I get off work on Friday, I'm calling him until I get an answer - every 5 minutes if that's what it takes. He is not getting out of making this decision.

(in reply to MsSilvie)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/21/2005 10:07:08 AM

Guest

quote:

And just as an update, we told him on Friday that he had a week ... we haven't heard from him since. I'm kinda guessing that we aren't going to, but you know what? If he hasn't called by the time I get off work on Friday, I'm calling him until I get an answer - every 5 minutes if that's what it takes. He is not getting out of making this decision.

Sorry for your situation. I know you are speaking out of frustration for lost time, energy and finances but even if you do not hear from him I would refrain from calling repeatedly. That quickly becomes harassment and possibly a criminal offense. I know you and Holly are upset but as other posters have mentioned, cutting the losses now and moving on (which means not dwelling on him, what could have been, or where his head is at) is the healthiest call you can make IMO.

Mod5

** Disclaimer: this is my opinon only and not that of CM.com**

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/21/2005 10:29:28 AM

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I understand that it is harrassment, but at this point, I don't care. He tried this with the ex (tried to piss her off to the point that she would just say "fuck off, go away" and he would be off the hook) - I will not let him do that with us. He is going to give us an answer if I have to fly out there and beat it out of him. It's not right that he is doing this to us, and he IS going to take responsibility for this. I am desparately hoping that he gives us a date instead of telling us that he is shipping his collars back to us ... but I just don't see it happening. But he isn't going to get out of it by procrastinating. He doesn't want the responsibility of making the decision, but he won't let us make it for him (we tried just telling him to come ... yeah, right, like that worked). When we are together, we don't have problems ... but long distance sucks and we knew that to begin with (which is why it wasn't supposed to be long distance for long). When he was here, it felt right - to all four of us. But the longer he is away, it seems like the easier it is for him to forget about that.

(in reply to Guest)

RE: A dilemma with our boy - 2/21/2005 3:24:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie
If you love him and want him to be well, that does mean you want him to be well with or without you.

such sage advice is incredibly awesome.

(in reply to MsSilvie)

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