RE: Love and Death (Full Version)

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MaryT -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 3:08:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I realize that on a bdsm site it is understandable, I guess, to hear mostly subs talk about the prospects of not being able to continue in the abscence of said spouse/dom.  Why is this? Because you are nothing without them? You have no worth now they are gone?  I cannot think anyone would find interest in a person who does not shine their own light or have something unique to give, offer or understand...Many of you sound like caricatures of actual living beings.

It's not the loss of love. The problem is You.


I would hearily disagree, having been through significant loss myself and watched others go through the process.  A parent who loses a child commonly feels the kind of devastation that leaves them wondering why they bother to continue breathing.  That is not because they are somehow deficient human beings, and they certainly are not caricatures.  It is part of the human condition and, being so, it is naturally a part of our population too.

That is different from depression (another subject that some posts seem to touch upon), but IME criticism of depression is not helpful to one who is depressed.

MaryT



darksdesire -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 3:09:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

My two cents. Is there a true connection between life and love... two completely different topics. one definitely being finite the other with more mystical qualities virtually impossible to define.

I realize that on a bdsm site it is understandable, I guess, to hear mostly subs talk about the prospects of not being able to continue in the absence of said spouse/dom.  Why is this? Because you are nothing without them? You have no worth now they are gone?  I cannot think anyone would find interest in a person who does not shine their own light or have something unique to give, offer or understand...Many of you sound like caricatures of actual living beings.

It's not the loss of love. The problem is You.

Get better,find help.take up needle point....do something that validates your existence....It's in all in you never in someone else.

out.

D.G. 

Dr Phil I rescind my throne,

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers



My guess is that you are hoping for an intense and emotional response from writing a response such as this?   Your words could have been construed as insulting, however, seeing how you missed the point and spirit of the post, it merely seems a bit insensitive and sad.

I do believe the topic isn't whether we are able to continue on when the one we love passes, but rather, whether we have the courage to choose love, even in the face of eventual loss. I believe that loving another takes more courage than any other act  because choosing to love means choosing loss.  We know that loss is inevitable, and that it goes hand in hand with love.  It seems to me that our unique lights are actually burning most brightly when we consciously make that choice to love with our whole being, fully acknowledging the eventual loss.

Grieving has nothing to do with one's sense of self worth or lack thereof.  I'm guessing Dr. Phil would agree? 



ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 9:37:08 PM)

Sub4hire, thank you for your words. I guess you got, that i am not feeling depressed, but that i want to go back to my normal and hard earned equilibrium.

Death, accidents, suicide and illnesses are nothing new for me, i am not one who have lived a sheltered existence. My family consists of artists of different branches, for outsiders they are wonderful and interesting, i felt always like in an mental institution, where most of them one time or another stayed in their live.

I am honored to have had your point of view in my thread, because your posts where one of the reasons i stayed here, as i started visiting collarme.



ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 9:46:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

snip
I had to go through a lot of these sorts of questions in my first relationship with someone more than 20 years older than myself- recognizing that there was a very likely chance that this person would not be in my life until the point of my own death and what that meant to me.
snip

LuckyAlbatross, thank you for your words. Michael is the life partner of mine, who is significantly older(+9) as me. I had affairs, flings, shortys till +15 and -7, but never one of my main partners with such a difference, so that surely is part of the situation.

And this last sentence of your post is the status quo attitude i am on my way (with a little help from you{generally you}) to reach again:
snip
But I accept that life brings up all sorts of things I'd never wish for and still be right for me.



ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 9:57:26 PM)

Yes, well. First off: The problem is me, that is the reason for this thread. Secondly i am not a sub. I am switch. I am not a D/S ler. I am a Sadist and a Masochist. Power is fluent and static situations are of no interest for me, so the moving power is the thrill.

I am not sure, that you want to insult me, like somebody else suggests, but i am sure, that your view of the world is narrow and that you did not read my opening post with a clear mind. I have not a problem with self worth or am i in need of a hobby, i am overwhelmed by love, still, after 6 years.

Life is about challenges and laughter, good sex and enlightment.









ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 10:00:04 PM)

slavejali, i feel understood.

thank you



ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/17/2006 10:03:42 PM)

Crouchingtigress,

a wonderful post, brings  a wide smile to my face this morning, soon the sun will turn and the days will get longer, especially your " infinite possibility's" resounded with me.

Ruth



mons -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 1:37:11 AM)

greetings

oh how i understand you pain to lose the one love that you trust is heartbreaking but i am one who believe in heaven the love i lost i know i will see again i do not know what regiion you are but i hope this helps, now matter what you believe love never dies it stay a course as long as you a near and will end back to you in the end

mons



SusanofO -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 1:51:12 AM)

My heart goes out to you. I can only imagine how precarious and pained you must feel at times. I can truly say if I had the opportunity, and found someone I was madly in love with, that even if I knew they were going to die, I'd get involved anyway. It (to me) would be so worth it.

But also very painful to watch and help them when they were ill (but I'd do it. I would). I've had people close to me die, but none that were my absolute heart and soul, so I can't comment with too much authority here. But I've watched people die before. I know it's emotionally difficult. I'll say some prayers for you.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 1:57:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

My two cents. Is there a true connection between life and love... two completely different topics. one definitely being finite the other with more mystical qualities virtually impossible to define.

I realize that on a bdsm site it is understandable, I guess, to hear mostly subs talk about the prospects of not being able to continue in the abscence of said spouse/dom.  Why is this? Because you are nothing without them? You have no worth now they are gone?  I cannot think anyone would find interest in a person who does not shine their own light or have something unique to give, offer or understand...Many of you sound like caricatures of actual living beings.

It's not the loss of love. The problem is You.

Get better,find help.take up needle point....do something that validates your existence....It's in all in you never in someone else.

out.

D.G. 

D.G. - You know: I never, ever say things like this (ever). Really. But - I just had to comment on your comment -

What a terribly judgmental, non-productive and completely hurtful thing to say. In my opinion, you get the "social graces" award for the day. 

Whatever would make you say something like this aloud? 

Do you really think your comments are going to be helpful to the OP? 

Consider whether your opinions will ever be taken seriosuly when delivered with such well - "mean-ness".
 
There is a definite difference between "Domliness" and "_ssholery".
 Maybe try to discover where that "dividing line" really is. It sometimes may be a fine one, but it's always there.
 
Just My Opinion,

- Susan



ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 2:36:13 AM)

BDSM05478: Thank you for reminding me! "a moment of this bliss"


LadyEllen, thank you for your story. I am deeply moved, all i can hope
and wish for is that, your ability to love will be freed again before 2018.

Sirandlittle1: Thank you for your experiences, i understand the difference
you make concerning loving and being in love and i wish you a good final
time working through time.

kyraofMists: Good to read you here, i follow your lovelifestory  and
always wish well to the Mists....My first nick Morgaine289, stems from
the mists of avalon and i am very near to the celtic culture.

darksdesire: "It seems to me that our unique lights are actually burning most brightlywhen we consciously make that choice to love with our whole being, fully acknowledging the eventual loss."
Again, i feel very understood. Thank you!



Rayne58 -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 3:41:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness

Rayne58, you newlywed, you! As i wrote to you on the other side, our thoughts were with the both of you the whole day, we were happy for you.
You know full well, that you are in the deepest sense of the word an inspiration for me, and that a lot of strength to endure in the last year was taken from the words in your postings and mails.

But, i am buddhistically challenged by this love, it is the first damm time, that i do not want to let go, to wordsworth you could say (Stop all the clocks...), and i am still disturbed by that.


Master's father is in the hospital and is not expected to come out again....His mother has just put a DNR on his chart. My mother did that when my father went into the nursing home, and Master Himself has one in His chart.

We discussed today if He should remove it, now that we are married. I thought for a few minutes, and then I said no....we will keep it on there, because I can't bear the thought of Him one day being a vegetable in a bed in the corner, with no hope of recovery or any quality of life. He has had 4 near death experiences in His life, and He is not afraid of death, just of leaving me behind.....I know I will not want to let Him go, but it would be selfish of me not to.....[&o]



ZenDragoness -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 7:20:39 AM)

Mons: Thank you for your kind words, "now matter what you believe love never dies it stay a course as long as you a near and will end back to you in the end" is a wonderful belief. I hope the situation with your sister and her husband has become better.

SusanofO: Welcome back firstly. I hope you will cope with your "domly" experience and go on to a fullfilling one. "It (to me) would be so worth it." It is worth it and the insightful words in this thread, helped me immensely to get back on track.



LaTigresse -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 7:39:42 AM)

I have never had a relationship like this, not really. I have seen a shadow, a flicker of the possibility of it, out of the corner of my eye.
Yet, when I reached for it, it was not really there.

I know that I have a capacity to love that is almost frightening to most. I hope that someday I can share it with someone. I know that even if the time together was limited and I was devasted when they left me, I would never regret having them.

I know that if I ever have it, the possibility that I could have will always haunt me. I know that life is too wonderful and beautiful to dwell on it. I chose to live for now the best I possibly can. To make each day as amazing as I can.
Let tomorrow be what it will when it gets here.



SusanofO -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 8:29:49 AM)

ZenDragoness: Thanks. You have my empathy (truly).
I am sort of working my way up to it. I sort of have something in mind, time will tell if it works out or not.

- Susan



Naughtygal33 -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 9:59:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen


The only way now to solve my situation is suicide. I have to bide until 2018, when my youngest will be grown up, though to be honest as the weeks go by, I grow less sure that I will manage to achieve that. It could be said to be selfish of me, but by then I will have been alone and in despair for sixteen years. Indeed, I'm only sticking around now for the sake of my kids, who would be doomed to poverty without me. I shall provide as much as I can for them, and sixteen years' effort to do that I hardly regard as selfish.

Some will say that I am being silly, that I am depressed and so on, and cannot see a way forward. Or that love will come my way again, and I am being too gloomy. But the fact is, I am defective, I am a reject, I am an embarassment, I am undesirable. Its a strange mixture for the counselling types - a healthy sense of self esteem, along with a clear view of a hopeless situation which can have only one characteristic and one outcome.

Dont get me wrong; I get plenty of interest, but only up to a point. Up to that point all is well, but once that point is reached, the defective stamp and reject label is applied and the person feels embarassment and all desire evaporates for them. Such is the way for the likes of me. An HIV infected drug user with syphilis has a better chance than me. Simple.

It wouldnt be so bad, if only it didnt hurt. If only I could recapture that ability to feel nothing, desire and fear nothing. If only I had never loved, never succumbed to feeling, I could now be without despair.

E






LadyEllen; please pm me if you want someone to talk to.  You are obviously beyond the level of pain that you can manage.  Suicide is not the answer.  Not now, and not in 2018.  Period.  Children do not automatically stop needing/loving their mother's when they grow up. 



SusanofO -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 2:39:36 PM)

LadyEllen: I can't get what you wrote out of my head. Please reconsider. I am reading a book that says God only lets the folks truly able to play in the big leagues the tough assignments. And I do believe that's true. The TVs, the transgendered folk, the mentally ill homeless, people starving in Africa, child-abuse victims...the rest of us are amatuers compared to ya'll. I really think so. But you only got the job'cuz He/She/It already knew you could handle it (which is not the same as saying it won't be sometimes a terrific challenge). This kinda job (like the one you got) never, ever is given to a wussy face coward. It just doesn't happen that way. There are no accidents. Please remember that (if you tend to believe it. I do).

- Susan 



Areflectionofyou -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 2:56:35 PM)

For me , i realized as of just lately i didn't know what true love was until i met Randy... No matter what happens in life or with us he is always there as am i . We never not talk through problems , and he is my beacon of light that never leaves me even when we aren't side by side. It is real, and i found that on July 7, 2006 and didn't realize it.
Jennifer



domiguy -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 3:12:43 PM)

To the op and to all who have criticized: I reread your post. My original response although harsher then I intended still stands.

In Western culture we have this rediculous notion of death. We all seem so unprepared when it comes...yet if my knowledge of history is correct it will inevitably consume us all....

Then why the horrible, paralyzing loss? Our family, though obviously different from many, celebrates the death of loved ones with a huge party...even those deaths not forseeable...It was always a celebration of life.

Upon the death of a loved one it is only compassionate to offer support and to admit to the loss of no longer being able to share in the joys provided by the deceased. 

We are lucky to find true love...some never do. My grandmother explained that true love is akin to two trees standing side by side, they share the same sunlight, the air, and they grow together...if one should stumble they know they can rely on the strength of the other to keep them up, however if one should fall then they have made sure through nourishing each other that the foundation of roots will keep the remaining tree standing. Although the sun may never again look quite the same...they must go on for each other.
(paraphrasing a bit...actual story much longer...Grandmother's and all)

Do you actually consider when falling in love the potential loss?  Very few do. Because in the end it happens to everyone.  We are not that special.

Specifically: Mary T....The post was not about the loss of a child, The post was about the loss of a partner...which I will address later.

Dark Desire: I don't know if I missed the spirit of the post...What I read was someone who is paralyzed,suicidal, and has serious issues of self worth....Yes it was cold...IT HAS BEEN SIX YEARS!!! SIX YEARS OF THIS!  I'm sorry for her initial loss but to come out here and get all of this attention and compassion makes many of you nothing short of enablers.

Susan of O...Yes I might have come off as a complete prick...But someone needs to shake her up tell her to pick herself up...and OUT LOUD!    She needs help...professional help. Six years...I have known people who have lost children, they still cry on birthdays but I believe they have found a way to move on. Six years...it just shouldn't have happened this way...and for all of you to say you are sorry and to feed the pain that she won't give up is somewhat patronizing.

I should have been more tactful...but I swear to God I am not mistaken here.  I have read too many posts where folks just can't seem to see the forest throught the trees...maybe they don't have the support group on hand to assist them...Then they need help...Professional help. Not some condescending bullshit.

What if she were in your family or your friend and for six years this had been going on...reread your replies and tell me would you be saying those same things to your friend today?

If she showed up on Dr Phil...Six years after her loss in this condition...what would he say?

Out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.




SusanofO -> RE: Love and Death (12/18/2006 3:23:38 PM)

domiguy: Thanks for explaining. I understand what you mean more now. Before it just had sounded to me like you had no compassion for the pain of someone who loses a loved one. I  think people grieve at their own pace. She wrote in maybe because she needs help getting over it and is going through the process as we speak. Maybe she is near the end of her grief road. We don't know and have no way to know, really. But counselling may help anyone who is grieving, granted. I agree.

- Susan 



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