RE: forced masculinity (Full Version)

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quietkitten -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 8:44:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady

quote:

Original: LadyAngelika
I think quiet kitten had a good point when she wrote earlier on in this thread:


I agree that quiet kitten made some excellent points. Feminism was good at the time but seems to have gone too far the other way. We do indeed need some balance in this and I enjoy having My chair pulled out for Me and doors opened.


[


Thank you for the positive comments.. you have no idea how many times I have been insulted for these views. It seems that many women still believe that "we don't need men to do anything for us". I like men and always have. I like masculine strength and the male form, I love to be treated like a lady. To me there is nothing nicer than a strong male hand holding a door open for me. I am very happy to hear that I am not alone.




sissymaidlola -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 11:18:38 AM)

[sm=lol.gif]

Hmm, very interesting subject, Lady Angelika. But even more interesting terminology, Ma'am. So, if insisting that a non-CD guy is chivalrous and holds open the door for You is forced masculinity, would similarly insisting that a little feminized sissy like lola hold open the door for You be forced masculinization ? And if he had to keep on doing it for You, would that be enforced masculinization, Ma'am ?

There is soooo much confusing terminology in BDSM, Ma'am, that this little sissy's head is just spinning here. :( Once sissy has been feminized, would making him pull his compact out of his purse and freshen his makeup and re-apply his lipstick in front of Your boyfriend be considered to be forced femininity, Ma'am ? And would continually making him touch up his makeup and lipstick in this manner in front of Your boyfriend be considered to be enforced femininity, Lady Angelika ?

Wooaa, now sissy's head is really spinning here. Unfortunately, sissy is wearing his blonde wig today, Ma'am, so please make some allowances for him. One last question, Ma'am. There is a perfectly vanilla young married couple that lives next door to sissy. Her husband does chivalrous things for his wife, such as opening doors and carrying groceries, all the time, Ma'am. Not just once or twice on holy days and special occasions, now, mind ... this guy is always doing that kinda stuff ... sissy is talking about someone that is almost a friggin' Knight of the Round Table here. So should what my neighbor's wife does to Her husband be called enforced masculinity, Ma'am ?

Or would it be perfectly OK just to call it normal, Ma'am ?

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola


[image]local://upfiles/21203/7550AAD373274EA8911F0BC3852D002C.jpg[/image]




quietkitten -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 11:28:05 AM)

Damn Sissy!! You are one funny person!!
Thank you for the giggles, I would love to meet you in perosn, I bet you are just a riot!

[:D]




LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 12:18:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

I like to bring a man in touch with his true masculinity. Not some macho overcompensation but what it is to be a true gentleman, to take pride in manhood, in strength, etc

<and then there was this in another thread>

I personally have taken great pleasure in having a "straight" boy sodomised by a big gay leatherman <weg>.


Can we assume that sodomy is not part of the program to bring a man in touch with his masculinity? heh


In fact it is.

First of all, a man's G-spot is up his ass. He needs to get in touch with that.

Also, in ancient Greece, being sodomised by another man was a rite of passage for a boy. So it is with me ;)

There is nothing un-masculine about homosexual activity (I'm not saying that by me having a man sodomised, he is a homosexual but the activity of sex between 2 people of the same gender is a homosexual act). Look at the leather boys! <purrs>

- LA




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 12:40:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseph6
I couldn't agree more with Mantis, it is somewhat surprising to me that the sterotypical male sub is seen (especially by Doms and fem subs) as weak, insecure, wimps.

In fact many of us there are type A, alpha males, educated, intelligent, masculine, competitive, finacially secure confident Gentlemen who are in charge so much of the time that being submissives is a release if only temporarily from much of the control we have. Isn't that the dynamic of the power exchange? Joseph

Great post Joseph6, and welcome to Collarme...
Now if only you could instruct the other majority of male subs to be more like you, and Onceburned (the other consumate gentleman sub on the forums), not struggling with giving up power. M




WulfMan -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 12:55:00 PM)

I do tend to agree with Joe on that one there.
Take for example my personal experience. I'm a military officer in the making, and when I was prior enlisted I was still even a leader. I run a tight shift get respect for those under me and those above me, basicly, I'm not trying to brag, but I was top dog. I ran a tight flight and knew how to keep men in gear.

For me being submissive is not what I call, being a wuss. It brings me balance, everyone has their own sort of speak sensitive side. Being a sub is how I show mine. I give it to you that it was a hard shift between being a bad ass, and being a sub. But once it happened, it just felt right, ya know.




LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:09:11 PM)

Well, well, well…

Before I begin sissymaidlola, let me remind you of an old saying: When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. Fortunately, I don’t let people make asses out me so I’ll let you take all the glory ;)

Now to respond to some of your assumptions. Following your discourse on the fate of men over the last few decades. You ask:

quote:


Did any women protest at this obvious injustice ?

Yup. Which is part of my whole post and which is why I try and help men get in touch with their masculinity.

quote:


At least now some women are starting to wake up to the fact that behind the Feminist and some other popular social movements are some very ugly scheming people who want to destroy the institutions of civilisation so they can rule over the wreckage. Accordingly, women now want men to resume practicing their traditional role as protectors of women and children, and - like Yourself, Lady Angelika - they bemoan the fact that there don’t seem to be any men like that around any more, and that chivalry is dead.


Wrong. I’m not just complaining about it. I’m actually doing something about it. There is a huge difference.

quote:


But it gets worse. Have women offered any kind of apology for the way men have been attacked for the past two or three decades ? Do women, even now, ask men nicely for their protection ? NO! None of these things.


Actually, yes. I have seen it often. Do I have the power to apologise for all of woman kind, no. Do I take actions in my everyday life to make a change for the better, yes. Whether it be male friends, lovers or submissives, I’ve had many a man thank me for helping them get in touch with their masculinity. It might only be changes in my own back yard, but nevertheless, it is very powerful.

quote:


So North America has lost its manhood. Oh, nooo, really ? Go figure how that could possibly be. Well now, if women want men’s protection again, and a return of some old-fashioned chivalry in society, they had better all start revising their attitude to men pretty darn quickly ... or alternatively, put their energies into learning karate, how to take out the trash, and how to change their own oil.


I never said I wanted men’s protection or automotive services. This is about men finding themselves again. I’m not going to try and bullshit you and say it’s selfless. I do get a kick out of seeing a man rediscover his masculinity. I love watching those I care about come into themselves.

Also, not only do I not wish for things to go back to the way they are, I know it isn’t possible because of what has happened over the last 30 years or so. We reflect, change, we evolve, we adapt and the cycle goes on. Isn’t it great?

quote:


There is an age old adage: "Be very careful what you wish for because you just might get it!" So, welcome to the Feminist Utopia, Ma'am <deep curtsey>. May sissy be of service to You, Ma'am ? <bob> ... because that is all this male is now any good for !


Please, call me LadyAngelika or Miss. Ma’am is for blue haired ladies or southern belles, neither of which I am.

quote:


You need to get over Your aversion to feminized males, Lady Angelika, because sissies like myself are the nearest thing to a chivalrous male that is still left in this world.


Now here are your two biggest false assumptions of the whole thread.

1) I have absolutely no aversion to feminized males. How on earth did you come to this conclusion? You are projecting sissymaidlola, and big time. You know nothing about me or the life I lead or the people I chose to be in my company. I have a great deal of respect for some sissies that I know and I respect their kinks. I like them for the individuals that they are and not who they chose to be. I don’t feel I need to justify my desires to you as they are my own personal desires. I started this thread to talk about my desires and see if any other woman has desires similar to me. Just like all the threads on feminization were started for those who wanted to talk about that kink. I make absolutely no excuses for liking what I like. I do take issue for people pissing in my sandbox because they are hurt because I don't find them cute in frilly pink skirts. I will not have you railroad this thread by trying to make me look like a sissy-hater. Nuh-uh.

2) “Sissies” are not the nearest thing to chivalrous males. Chivalry is something individual. I’m not saying a sissy cannot be chivalrous. I’ve known some to be. However, your statement saying that they are the most chivalrous is simply preposterous.

quote:


At least we still understand the importance of submission and service.


Oh and believe me, so do my *very* masculine boys.

quote:


The way this sissy sees it, if women are going to continue to contrive together to emasculate him, then at least he should be permitted to wear something totally frilly and frou-frou to best show off the results of their handy work. After all, Ma'am, fair's fair !


But you see, that is where you are gravely mistaken. I have no desire to emasculate a man. My dominance over men doesn’t come out of some female superiority or hatrid of men. It comes out of love and genuine appreciation of men.

Again, your pent up anger is unleashed on me. The thing is, it almost makes me feel sorry for you, to see that you have to act out in such a defensive way. A shame really.

quote:


Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola


You insult me, make false accusations, assumptions and change the name of my thread and try to make me swallow it all with this little “Respectfrilly Yours”. Get real.

- LA




onceburned -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:09:44 PM)

M, thank you for the kind words regarding Joseph6 and myself.

I suspect there are a number of gentlemenly subs who read these forums, however often their voices remain silent. Dayton is one person I would include in this group and I am sure their are others whose names escape me.

This has been a good thread And a necessary thread. Let us hope that it will encourage male subs to step forward to serve with pride.




LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:12:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseph6
In fact many of us there are type A, alpha males, educated, intelligent, masculine, competitive, finacially secure confident Gentlemen who are in charge so much of the time that being submissives is a release if only temporarily from much of the control we have. Isn't that the dynamic of the power exchange?


*Demurely wipes a little drool from her lower lip*

Uh-huh.

- LA




BeachMystress -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:25:44 PM)


I'd never been into feminization because I share the love of the masculine. To me, I had the mistaken notion that because a man put on frillies, it made him less masculine. Silly me. It CAN make the man less masculine, but does not have to, as one of my good friends who is the most aggressively masculine man I know is a cross dresser. I found I enjoyed playing with him.. adult barbies!

After him, I met a sissy who was every bad stereotype about the breed. Too many of the sissy boys have taken on the bad parts of what it is to be female. They use it to be drama queens or to stamp off in a huff when they don't like what is being said (as Sissyslave71 did.) I find that very insulting. Those are not what I see as widespread feminine traits, yet I see it time and time again that those term themselves sissy view women that way and adopt that persona. No, I do not feel that is all sissy boys, so don't start screaming that "you" don't fit that mold. I have a good sissy friend who doesn't fit it. He's very well adjusted and has a healthy view of women, himself and life in general. In my experience, too many do though.

Even realizing that one can enjoy feminization and still be masculine, I prefer men who do not have the cross dressing fetish. I find it sweet and endearing when a manly man has trouble expressing a romantic concept. I find it amusing in a good way when they get all excited about their sports teams and competitions. I like a man who is willing to compete for what he wants. Maleness turns me on. It makes me hot. I love a man who acts like a man. As Lady Angelika pointed out, that doesn't mean one who is crude or gauche. I love a man with wonderful manners. My boy opens car doors and such for me. I find it touching. I also find it touching that my boy sometimes doesn't understand the female point of view and that his eyes light up over things that I shake my head at such as boxing, wrestling and physical contact sports. It melts my heart that even though I'm a strong woman and he recognizes that I don't NEED him to defend me, he still wants to because he loves me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

When people ask me if I'm a feminist, I say no. Actually, people usually assume that I am one because I am a strong woman. Though I think feminism served it's purpose, I think it's time now to find an equilibrium. There is no glory in elevating all things feminine with the price of destroying all things masculine.


I've been wanting to get into this thread from the time I saw it. I was at my sub's and didn't want to take the time to get in and actually give it the attention it deserved. I did however rant about what the feminist movement has done to good manners to my sub. I am NOT a feminist. I am an equalist. I feel it should be as easy for a woman to hold the door for a man as it is for the man to hold it for the woman. Good manners cut both ways. Yes, the feminist movement did a lot for us. As you say, it is time to equalize things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert
Can we assume that sodomy is not part of the program to bring a man in touch with his masculinity? heh

As already stated (I think, since I've only skimmed the end of the thread so far and am answering as I read through it) there isn't anything masculine or unmasculine about sodomy. It is a Dominance thing. It occurs in the animal kingdom as well as our own for this purpose.

Oh, and WulfMan, I'd not be surprised at all by the number of men in armed service who wear panties or otherwise submit. I live about an hour away from Camp Pendleton (Marines for those who don't know) in Oceanside CA. Before everyone shipped out for the mideast troubles, I spoke to a ton of submissive men from there. I find that a LOT of Marines are kinky. I haven't found it to be true of the other branches of the service, but that may just be because I don't have a base of other services close enough to have them contacting me. I do have the Naval Weapons Station in Seal Beach CA about 20 mins from me, but they don't have near the staff that a base like Pendleton does. The best part about armed forces subs? They've already learned how to obey orders. :-D





LadyAngelika -> RE: the rebirth of men (2/25/2005 1:27:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola
Hmm, very interesting subject, Lady Angelika. But even more interesting terminology, Ma'am. So, if insisting that a non-CD guy is chivalrous and holds open the door for You is forced masculinity, would similarly insisting that a little feminized sissy like lola hold open the door for You be forced masculinization ? And if he had to keep on doing it for You, would that be enforced masculinization, Ma'am ?


Actually, the title of my post was tongue-in-cheek so to speak. How about "the rebirth of men"... better?

quote:


There is soooo much confusing terminology in BDSM, Ma'am, that this little sissy's head is just spinning here.


Then perhaps you'd like to google some of them? Or buy a book?

quote:


Wooaa, now sissy's head is really spinning here.

Or lay off the weed?

quote:


Unfortunately, sissy is wearing his blonde wig today, Ma'am, so please make some allowances for him.

I actually expect more from blondes, being a natural blonde myself. ;)

quote:


One last question, Ma'am.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion it will not be the last? And it's Miss, not Ma'am.

quote:


There is a perfectly vanilla young married couple that lives next door to sissy. Her husband does chivalrous things for his wife, such as opening doors and carrying groceries, all the time, Ma'am. Not just once or twice on holy days and special occasions, now, mind ... this guy is always doing that kinda stuff ... sissy is talking about someone that is almost a friggin' Knight of the Round Table here. So should what my neighbor's wife does to Her husband be called enforced masculinity, Ma'am ?

Or would it be perfectly OK just to call it normal, Ma'am ?


You are asking me to analyse a relationship dynamic based on the 101-word account from a spinning headed third person. Again, get real.

- LA




LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:30:09 PM)

quote:

I'm a military officer in the making,


Ok... you keep saying. I want to see proof! Provide photo of you in uniform boy! ;)

- LA




LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:34:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

M, thank you for the kind words regarding Joseph6 and myself.

I suspect there are a number of gentlemenly subs who read these forums, however often their voices remain silent. Dayton is one person I would include in this group and I am sure their are others whose names escape me.

This has been a good thread And a necessary thread. Let us hope that it will encourage male subs to step forward to serve with pride.


If it accomplishes only that, then it was worthwhile. :)

- LA




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 1:42:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseph6
I couldn't agree more with Mantis, it is somewhat surprising to me that the sterotypical male sub is seen (especially by Doms and fem subs) as weak, insecure, wimps.

In fact many of us there are type A, alpha males, educated, intelligent, masculine, competitive, finacially secure confident Gentlemen who are in charge so much of the time that being submissives is a release if only temporarily from much of the control we have. Isn't that the dynamic of the power exchange? Joseph

Great post Joseph6, and welcome to Collarme...
Now if only you could instruct the other majority of male subs to be more like you, and Onceburned (the other consumate gentleman sub on the forums), not struggling with giving up power. M

Oh Yes, How could I forget Dayton/subEric.
Awesome submissive men! Life is good. M




WulfMan -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 4:24:38 PM)

quote:

Ok... you keep saying. I want to see proof! Provide photo of you in uniform boy! ;)


LOL! yes Ma'am!*does the whole salute routine. I'll try and track down a friend with a diggy.
Question though. BDU's, that's the camo type uniform, or dress blues?
I warn you I have the stupid ROTC uniform now, would have rather kept my damned Enlisted, the thing was actually taliored right. *grumbles cheap bastards* lol




WulfMan -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 4:27:29 PM)

Oh yeah and thanks abunch for the complements! Granted I think onceburned are far better subs than me. Ya guys all rock. Don't beleive anything otherwise.




LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 4:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WulfMan

quote:

Ok... you keep saying. I want to see proof! Provide photo of you in uniform boy! ;)


LOL! yes Ma'am!*does the whole salute routine.


That's Yes Miss! ;)

quote:


Question though. BDU's, that's the camo type uniform, or dress blues?


Both! I'm a greedy bitch! Actually, my first choice is dress blues over camo anytime ;)

- LA




WulfMan -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 5:09:35 PM)

gotcha

LOL sorry bout the Ma'am thing forgot you liked it Miss.





LadyAngelika -> RE: forced masculinity (2/25/2005 5:34:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WulfMan

gotcha

LOL sorry bout the Ma'am thing forgot you liked it Miss.


I have ways of giving (not so) gentle reminders but my cane doesn't reach to North Dakota.

- LA




onceburned -> masculine subs (2/25/2005 6:14:46 PM)

Dayton, there may be better subs than you but I certainly am not one of them. I am just a novice, trying to learn how to please a woman who wants to be pleased. I don't have the experience that so many others have... especially sub-eric (wow!). But I intend to... [;)]




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