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RE: About puntuation - 1/1/2007 9:27:38 AM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
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No doubt, I have a lecture fetish (poor gretchen.) 

Anyway, when it comes to English grammar, the issue isn't a matter of 'if you can use it or not.'  I be rollin' down da streetz wit muh crew an 'sall good cuz muh boyz day be down wit it, but obviously my employer wouldn't be down with my paycheck if I taught that way; so 'rules' are better viewed as guidelines.   The best litmus test is if a phrase sounds natural when you say it.  I can't use 'However' for 'Nevertheless' in the beginning of a sentence because it doesn't sound natural.  As you say the two sentences LaM lists, try doing it with a half second pause between it, and see what you make of it.

Either way, language is a lot like how you dress - some folks go around wearing bright orange "I eat dead people" or pink "Sex Machine" T-shirts.  It's certainly their right, but probably hard on the eyes, and tells a fair bit about the person. 


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(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: About puntuation - 1/1/2007 9:44:49 AM   
gretchenS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

No doubt, I have a lecture fetish (poor gretchen.) 




Yeah... poor gretchen has to endure the damn fetish, while she rathers get a whipping instead as punishment... Even corner time sounds less severe in poor gretchen's mind...

(Poor gretchen...)

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: About puntuation - 1/1/2007 1:50:22 PM   
FullCircle


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I just shove it all in Word and play that game called “Eliminate the green squiggly lines”.

I trust Bill to point me in the right direction.

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RE: About puntuation - 1/1/2007 2:01:56 PM   
MissyRane


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Full stop
 
A full stop or period (sometimes stop, full point or dot), is the punctuation mark commonly placed at the end of several different types of sentences in English and several other languages. A full stop consists of a small dot placed at the end of a line of text, such as at the end of this sentence.
The term full stop is rarely used by speakers in the United States and Canada. If it is used in Canada, it may be generally differentiated from period in contexts where both might be used: a full stop is specifically a delimiting piece of punctuation that represents the end of a sentence. When a distinction is made, a period is then any appropriately sized and placed dot in English language text, including use in abbreviations (such as U.K.) and at the ends of sentences, but excluding certain special uses of dots at the bottom of a line of text, such as ellipses.
The term STOP was used in telegrams in place of the period in telegrams in the United States. The end of a sentence would be marked by STOP, as using FULL STOP was costly {Julian Borger in The Guardian, February 3, 2006, at [1]). The end of the entire telegram would be noted by FULL STOP.
The word "period", although recognised as an Americanism, is also used vernacularly throughout the English-speaking world to terminate a phrase or thought with finality and emphasis, as in "This is your last chance, period." The term full stop is also used in this sense in many parts of the world.

Comma
 
A comma, ) is a punctuation mark. It has the same shape as an apostrophe or single closing quotation mark in many typefaces, but it differs from them in being placed on the baseline of the text.
Some typefaces render it as a small line, slightly curved or straight, or as a small, filled-in number 9. It is used in many contexts, principally for separating things. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word "comma" comes directly from the Greek komma (κόμμα), which means "something cut off" or "a short clause."
 
History
The comma was one of the first punctuation marks. In the 3rd century BCE, Aristophanes of Byzantium invented a system of single dots (distinctiones) that separated verses (colometry) and indicated the amount of breath needed to complete each fragment of text when reading aloud (not to comply with rules of grammar, which were not applied to punctuation marks until thousands of years later). The different lengths were signified by a dot at the bottom, middle, or top of the line. For a short passage (a komma), a media distinctio dot was placed mid-level ( · ). This is the origin of the concept of a comma, though the name came to be used for the mark itself instead of the clause it separated.
The mark used today is descended from a diagonal slash, or virgula suspensiva/ ), used from the 13th to 17th centuries to represent a pause, notably by Aldus Manutius. In the 16th century, the virgule dropped to the bottom of the line and curved, turning into the shape used today ( , ).[1][2][3][4]

[edit] Grammar
The comma has several uses in English grammar, all related to marking-off separate elements within a sentence:
  1. Introductory words and phrases: Once upon a time, I didn't know how to use commas.
  2. Parenthetical phrases: The parenthetical phrase has an important, often misunderstood, use. It is often used for thought interruptions. Information that is unnecessary to the meaning of the sentence is commonly set off and enclosed by commas. If the information is necessary, no commas should be used.

  3. Restrictive and non-restrictive use: The sentences "I cut down all the trees, which were over six feet tall" and "I cut down all the trees that were over six feet tall" look similar but in fact have very different meanings. In the first sentence, all the trees were cut down, and a detail (that they were over six feet tall) is added. In the second, only some trees were cut down — those over six feet tall; there may have been shorter trees, too, which were not cut down. In the first case, "which were over six feet tall" is set off by a comma because it is a non-restrictive clause (i.e., its removal doesn't alter the meaning of the sentence). In the second, "that were over six feet tall" is a restrictive clause and takes no comma (because if you left it out, the sentence would then say that all the trees were cut down, not just the ones over six feet).
  4. Parenthetical phrases in sentences may include the following:

  5. Address: My father ate the bagel, John.
  6. Interjection: My father ate the bagel, gosh darn it!
  7. Aside: My father, if you don’t mind my telling you this, ate the bagel.
  8. Appositive: My father, a jaded and bitter man, ate the bagel.
  9. Absolute phrase: My father, his eyes flashing with rage, ate the bagel.
  10. Free modifier: My father ate the bagel, chewing with unbridled fury.
  11. Resumptive modifier: My father ate the bagel, a bagel which no man had yet chewed.
  12. Summative modifier: My father ate the bagel, a feat which no man had attempted.
  13. Any phrase that interrupts the flow of the main clause:

  14. My father, chewing with unbridled fury, ate the bagel (free modifier).
  15. My father, in a fit of rage, ate the bagel (prepositional phrase).
  16. My father, with no regard for his health, ate the bagel (adverbial phrase).
  17. My father, despite his lack of teeth, ate the bagel (adverbial phrase).
  18. Years following dates (this is American usage - whether this is really parenthetical is moot): My father ate a bagel on December 7, 1941, and never ate one again. (See #9 below.)
  19. States following cities: My father ate a bagel in Dallas, Texas, in 1963.
  20. In each case, the parenthesised ("as if in parentheses") text is both preceded and followed by a comma, unless that would result in doubling a punctuation mark, or if the parenthetical is at the start or end of the sentence.
  21. The comma is often used to separate two independent clauses (a group of words that can function as a sentence) that are joined by a co-ordinating conjunction (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, and so, when they are used to connect; the acronym FANBOYS can be used as a memory aid). Some people feel this is obligatory, while others prefer to use the comma only when not doing so would lead to a different reading.

  22. "I passed the test, but he failed." (comma) — "I passed the test" and "He failed" can function as separate sentences
  23. "I walked home and left shortly after." (no comma) — Although "I walked home" is independent, "left shortly after" is dependent on the first part of the sentence
  24. The comma is used to separate a dependent clause from the independent clause if the dependent clause comes first.

  25. After I brushed the cat, I lint-rollered my clothes. (comma)
  26. I lint-rollered my clothes after I brushed the cat. (no comma)
  27. The comma is used to separate items in lists. However, if the individual items in the list also contain commas, the list is often separated by a semicolon (;)
    • A comma before the final "and" or "or" in a list of more than two things is called a serial comma or an Oxford comma:

    • "We had milk, biscuits, and cream."
    • It is called the Oxford comma because its usage is recommended in the style guide of the Oxford University Press.
    • Although the Oxford comma is not always used, it may be used in certain sentences to avoid ambiguity.

    • "I spoke to the boys, Sam and Tom." — "The boys" refers to Sam and Tom.
    • "I spoke to the boys, Sam, and Tom." — "The boys", Sam, and Tom are separate units; thus, four or more people were spoken to in all. In such cases, the order of presentation can be rearranged to avoid possible confusion ("I spoke to Sam, Tom and the boys.").

  28. A comma is used to set off quoted material that is the grammatical object of an active verb of speaking or writing.
    • Mr. Kershner says, "You should know how to use a comma."

    • Quotations that follow and support an assertion should be set off by a colon rather than a comma:
      • Wordsworth recalls his childhood existence as precious but as now outside his grasp: "Where is it now, the glory and the dream?"

    • Quotations that are incorporated in ways other than as the object of active verbs of speaking or writing should be punctuated the same as if there were no quotation marks: Mr. Kershner told me that I "should know how to use a comma."

  29. In representing large numbers, English texts use commas separating each group of three digits. This is almost always done for numbers of six or more digits, and optionally for five (or even four) digits. <Note, however, that in other-language texts the numerical use of commas and periods may be reversed (periods to group zeros, comma as decimal point)>.

  30. 1,000,000
  31. 100,000
  32. 10,000 or 10000
  33. 1,000 or 1000
  34. Commas are used when writing names that are presented last name first.
    • Smith, John

  35. Two commas used when writing the date in the following forms:

  36. American English: September 11, 2001, was a momentous day.
  37. British English: Tuesday, 11 September 2001, was a momentous day.
  38. A comma is written in an address between the city and the state and again following the state):
    • My dog's masseuse lives in New York, NY, most of the year.
      • The following comma is commonly omitted by news agencies, but is a grammatical requirement per two rules: one, while considered necessary, the state functions parenthetically (New York city [in NY]) in that a preceding comma mandates a following comma; two, its omission serves incorrectly to separate the sentence ("My dog's masseuse lives in New York" and "NY most of the year").

  39. Fowler's Modern English Usage demonstrates an optional use of commas with two sentences differing only by a comma:

  40. "The teacher beat the scholar with a whip." A simple description.
  41. "The teacher beat the scholar, with a whip." Expression of outrage.
    • An alternative interpretation is that the second example represents a comma used to remove an ambiguity - to clarify that it was the teacher, not the scholar, who had the whip.

The comma is easy to misuse in multiple ways; see comma splice.

Semicolon
 
A semicolon ( ; ) is a punctuation mark.
[edit] Language usage
In English, the semicolon has two main purposes:
  1. It binds two sentences more closely than they would be if separated by a full stop/period. It often replaces a conjunction such as and or but. Writers might consider this appropriate where they are trying to indicate a close relationship between two sentences, or a 'run-on' in meaning from one to the next; they don't wish the connection to be broken by the abrupt use of a full-stop.
  2. It is used as a stronger division than a comma, or a "super comma" to make meaning clear in a sentence where commas are already being used for other purposes. A common example of this use is to separate the items of a list when some of the items themselves contain commas.

There are several rules that govern semicolon placement:
  1. Use a semicolon between closely related independent clauses not joined by a coordinating conjunction: "I went to the pool; it was closed."
  2. Use a semicolon between independent clauses linked with a transitional phrase or conjunctive adverb: "I like to ride horses; however, they don't like to be ridden by me."
  3. Use a semicolon between items in a series containing internal punctuation: "There are several Waffle Houses in Atlanta, Georgia; Greenville, South Carolina; Pensacola, Florida; and Mobile, Alabama."

A semicolon can be used to separate independent clauses that are joined by coordinating conjunctions when the clauses have internal commas that might lead to misreading: "After the game, I won a red beanie baby, four edible ingots, and a certificate of excellence; but when the storm came, I lost it all in a torrent of sleet, snow, and profanity."
Semicolons are always followed by a lower case letter, unless that letter begins a proper noun. Semicolons are placed after closing quotation marks.
In Greek and Church Slavonic, a semicolon indicates a question, similar to a Latin question mark. To indicate a major pause or separate sections each of which includes commas (the purposes served by semicolon in English), Greek uses a Middle Dot · (Unicode character 00B7).

[edit] Examples
1. I am alone; my wife had to leave.
2. I travelled to London, England; Tijuana, Mexico; and Reykjavík, Iceland.
3. Lisa scored 2,845,770 points; Marcia, 2,312,860; and Jeff, 1,726,640.
4. Excuse me; where are the toilets?
(Note that the last semicolon in sentence 2 and 3 is acting as a serial comma.)

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: About puntuation - 1/1/2007 4:10:03 PM   
MissyRane


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Joined: 5/11/2005
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more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullstop 

(in reply to MissyRane)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: About puntuation - 1/2/2007 10:02:39 AM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather




Yeah, I think I have a little bit of a "lecture fetish" myself.
Hot, isnt it?



That really made me laugh!  Very clever, indeed.

... and hot, as well.  Nicely done! .... which is what you should be :)

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(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: About puntuation - 1/2/2007 11:29:43 AM   
SaigonHeat


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/1/2007
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Communists don't even believe in punctuation.......or God, for that matter.

(in reply to MasDom)
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