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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 2:31:36 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC

Yes, I am quite aware of the criteria, which is why I used the phrase 'cultish tendancies'; I am fully aware that there are many aspects of Gorian culture which fall outside of being a classic 'cult'.

Ah, OK. What is it about us that you find "cultish"?

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 2:41:07 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

*shrugs* They're allowed to have any belief system they wish. How I feel about it is all about "my stuff". It has no real bearing on them and only speaks about my comfort, or discomfort, of the subject. I analyse myself, especially if I strongly dislike something, and look at WHY it bothers me. It's always because I have a little bit (or a lot of) what I don't like in myself and I find it ugly or disturbing. Once I see it, I can begin to accept it. Just because I accept that it's a piece of me doesn't mean I have to practice it. But, in accepting it, I can learn to have compassion for those who do practice it...and say, as well as believe, that they have the right to whatever practices they wish (assuming no harm).

Master Fire

Ok, so here is my absolute polar opposite and I find her post the most reasoned and mature in the entire thread. Maybe reason got squished out of the middle toward the edges.

Thank you, Fire.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 2:48:55 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dauric

...Ahem... As a Dominant Male I take exception to this. Frankly I find this kind of fantasy a pain in the @$$. What's the point in having a submissive/slave that cannot do things without orders, and have to hang over their shoulder to get anything done. Might have been interesting when I was a teenager, but I grew out of that a LONG time ago.

I'd find that a pain in the ass too, Dauric. Gorean slaves are expected to know and adhere to more protocol than average, and be perfectly obedient, but they are also expected to serve their masters proactively. Generally a man, as any slave owner would, gives his slave a framework of commands and expectations to work within, and then expects her to serve him within them for the most part, without having to be constantly reminded and told.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 1/4/2007 2:50:22 PM >

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 2:57:17 PM

LadyLupineNYC

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To provide a bit of equal time (even if off topic) I agree with this- a sub/slave who approches me with the idea that I will be micro managing his life is missing the point on so many levels. I look for what I would call a 'thinking sub', one who is an active partcipant in his submission and who, if service is part of his submission to me, takes a proactive role in that submission....any slave- male, female, Gorean-style etc should be a credit to his/her Master/Mistress.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 3:05:07 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I have issues with any society that is based on 1/2 of the population being inferior. I did read 1/2 of the Gor books before I just couldn't stomach them anymore. The society of Gor is one in which any female - Free or slave - can be kidnapped at any time by a man, simply because he was a man. Male slaves are almost unheard of and when they are, they are designated to be the lowest of the low.

Inferior, at what? Inferior at contending with men for dominance in a world where physical prowess still mattered? Yeah, women, taken as a group, are inferior. On a world like the fictional Gor where feminine submission was as much a part of their culture as our "Cinderella" stories of courtly love are in ours, most women would be required to submit, and they would.

I won't be hopping in my dodge and headed down to the shopping mall on a slave capture run anytime soon, and neither will any other Goreans that I know. First of all, being upstanding citizens is higher on our heirarchy of values than keeping a slave period, so if grabbing one illegally was the only way to do it, we wouldn't. Secondly, as I have explained before, Goreans, both male and female, are a self-selected group. Gorean women are the ones who read the same books you did and said "I wanna live there" as opposed to "gee, that sucks". In other words, they identify with an architype of femininity that is by nature submissive toward dominant men. Is that because of a sociobiological destiny that many women share, but are discouraged from admitting in our culture? We'll never agree about that. Some women feel the pull of submission to masculine domination as described in the books, and they follow it. Both you, and they, have the right to the persuit of happiness.

quote:

What I have seen from online and r/l goreans that I've met is that the "slave girls" in the chat rooms are really just obnoxious brats who need their butts beaten in a way that they won't enjoy, and that we are expected to bow to the will of a gorean male simply because he's a gorean male and we are female (even though we aren't gorean) - and yes, that happened with us more than once with people we knew in real life. We were told that we had to punish our boy for something that we didn't think he needed punishment for, simply because a gorean male thought that he should be.

Don't even get me started on Gorean role-players. If you think what you're saying about them is harsh, you should look up some of what I've said in our own section.

quote:

I'm all for people doing what they wish in the privacy of their own homes, but most of the goreans I've had interactions with have proceeded to try and push it off onto us.

Are you talking about online here, or in someone's home? What goes on in people's living room varies. In some houses, you are expected to follow Gorean protocol as a visitor out of respect for the customs of your host. Other houses, like mine, are more "hang-loose" about non-Goreans who are just there to socialize and learn. If your host wasn't clear about what you were walking into before you got there, that sucks. Sorry that happened to you.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 3:44:47 PM

BDSM05478

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

It happens here in the US too right under your nose in almost every major city.

oh...that makes it ok then.. I see.. 'never mind'

who said anything about it being ok? If anything it is worse that it happens here as compared to some 3rd world county far far away.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:10:46 PM

MstrssPassion

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

This may have been asked before...

How do you Ladies feel about the fictitious planet of Gor where women are considered less than men, and submissive men are considered less than nothing?

I am having trouble wrapping My head around it. Perhaps someone can clarify it better for Me so I will be able to understand.

~Kara

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

I live on a real planet called Earth. I don't really care about what happens in a galaxy far, far away.

If you are gonna quote me, don't change the subject or post my words out of context.

The OP asked about a fictional planet. I replied...it's fictional. Does it really matter whether I know if it was written somewhere that it is on some friggin imaginary counter orbit or far away? The point of my reply was that I live on Earth WTF do I care what happens on an imaginary planet.

Look at the OP...never was it asked for anyone to describe the philosophy derived from these books. We (ladies) were asked what we felt about this fictional planet.

I won't go into what I know or don't know about Goreans. I won't go into how many real time couples I know who practice this particular lifestyle. It wouldn't serve any purpose.

All I can say is that it will take far more than a paragraph from you or anyone else on this site to "enlighten" me as to facts & truths about Gor or Gorean practice when you have admittedly remarked that what you speak of is an adaptation/abstract of something that has no basis in reality to begin with. The purist attitude of most goreans encountered is the downfall of any argument because nothing practiced is pure.

The values of honor, integrity, accountability, personal success, structure & all of these other traits that so many go on & on about all not exclusive to Goreans. All of that is very real & existent in my life & in the dynamics of my relationship with those who serve me. The only issue I have is that in "your" ways... I have to look to a man or group of men to ALLOW me the opportunity to be who I already am, who I naturally am & to me that would make me less than who I am. I do not need anyone's permission nor do I seek it out in ANY man or woman for that matter. There has only been one man in my life that I ever looked to for permission, my Father. ( & I haven't asked him for permission for a thing since I became my own woman over 20 yrs ago)

Oh... & while I'm commenting. I'm not a BDSM'er either. BDSM does not define who I am. I consider BDSM to be merely an accessory that may or may not be involved in an interaction between consenting adults. Just had to say that since this has yet again turned into another us or them "debate".

I'm just me.
I don't fit in with either of these cliques.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:21:46 PM

edana

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Posted by Leonidas. Sorry, wrong account.

quote:

The OP asked about a fictional planet. I replied...it's fictional. Does it really matter whether I know if it was written somewhere that it is on some friggin imaginary counter orbit or far away? The point of my reply was that I live on Earth WTF do I care what happens on an imaginary planet.

Ah, OK. So you took the OP as literally asking about the fictional planet, and didn't infer anything else. I didn't catch that, since most of the other posters seem to infer that she was asking about Goreans, and not the fiction. My mistake.

< Message edited by edana -- 1/4/2007 4:22:35 PM >

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:33:32 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Edited to add: It's a book. Why don't you go interview those who actually have been forced into sexual slavery? It's happening now in other countries and I'm sure there are plenty of horror stories to go around.

It happens here in the US too right under your nose in almost every major city.

Damn. Wasn't aware of that.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:35:06 PM

GuidingLite

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man wrote the bible and claim it's gods word. it's "the law". what a crock. same goes to those egotisical creature goreans.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:41:13 PM

gooddogbenji

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Now to step in for a moment - what Gorean claimed to be God? Or for his books to be written by God? Or even claim some religious context to their works?

Yours,

benji

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:46:37 PM

edana

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Sorry, Leonidas logged in as his slave again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I think its a badly written fantasy series that people have turned into a cult. A woman is worth just as much as a man. Women can do just about anything a man can which alot of men(and some women) find threatening.

I haven't bought any men lately. What are they going for now? (sorry, couldn't resist). Cult is a pretty loaded word. Goreans don't fit any accepted definition of cult that I know of, except maybe the slang definition "group that find threatening cause I don't know anything about them, and therefore don't like". If you're applying some other definition, I'd love to hear it.

quote:

Not all women are naturally submissive and most don't want to be a slave. I know I'd never be submissive nor anyones slave, I'm far to dominant for that. So that tosses their" all women will submit to men naturally" right out the window.

It would if that's what we thought, but it's not. You very well may be a woman who, if put to the ultimate question, would prefer honorable death to life in chains. We do believe that they exist.

quote:

I find their belief that women are "beasts" to be disturbing. But hey if their girls like being called beasts, let them knock themselves out enjoying it. Personally it shows lack of respect, but then again maybe they enjoy that.

Yeah, I hear 'ya. I find some of the descriptions on this site of men and women as "sissy" "bitch" "whore" "pig" "cum-dump" "worthless piece of shit" etc. to be a little offputting myself. For what it's worth, both male and female slaves were classed as "beasts" in the books. It wasn't sex specific, it had to do with the fact that legally, and again IN THE FICTION they were rightless animals legally and in the eyes of society.

quote:

Most sub males are just as macho as a the dominant guy, you can rarely tell them apart. I will take a sub male over a gorean male anyday. The sub male is being true to his nature, the gorean is doing what he is forced to do by their society. I've had many gorean masters request that I dominant them but had to keep it quiet less they loose respect from their peers. That in itself shows how much the "masters" are controlled. LOL Fear rules them and submales are free to be themselves.

Yeah. Well, I guess everyone has their own experience of sub males, and it does no good for us to compare ours. Be that as it may, being free, or slave, as a man, as Gorean think about it has nothing to do with machismo. It has to do with the desire to be free, or the lack thereof. If a man is willing to surrender his freedom to a man, or a woman, that places him in a different category to our way of thinking to a man who would not. We think that the men who would not are peers of each other, and the men who would have no right to peerage with those men. I'm sure we disagree about that, and that's alright, but virility or lack thereof isn't really the deciding factor. At least not to us.

< Message edited by edana -- 1/4/2007 4:47:16 PM >

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 4:58:10 PM

edana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite

man wrote the bible and claim it's gods word. it's "the law". what a crock. same goes to those egotisical creature goreans.

Wow, that was kind of angry. Goreans don't believe that the Gor books are the revealed word of god. We just identify with them. We don't even believe that you'll go to hell if you don't.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:02:18 PM

nikaa

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Master Leonidas

My Master has the same problem from time to time, he goes to post and ends up posting on my nick. Though I must admit I love watching his face when he relizes what account he just posted on.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:04:06 PM

Leonidas

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Yeah, I do it all the damn time. Edana will get some mail that she begs me to look at, so I log in as her, then post not realizing I haven't re-logged.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:12:45 PM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

**** Please do not take offense to this post, it is not ment to offend anyone****
I am not threatened by Gor. I feel that it is a valid way of life for many many people. I understand that a few can spoil the bunch and that not all Gorean people are like the few examples I have seen in real life mingling with Goreans. But it is something I cannot understand. In the books there is much violence advocated. A slave may be killed ( I know in another thread it was said "yes but no slave was actually ever killed").......but still the law was there. Slaves were hit so hard as to cause nausa. I cannot understand why all the violence? Why all the "all woman just need a big strong man to find their inner slave"?

Perhaps, I am viewing it wrong.

I will say that I have really enjoyed this thread. It did answer some of my questions and for the most part everyone has been peaceful.

It's fiction.

People are murdered, raped, enslaved, forced to do horrible things in fiction. For some people it is a huge turn on and the only safe and moral way to live out those extreme fantasies.

Heck, I've gotten emails from folks who think my Yvonne the Butcher from two of my short stories is the hottest thing under the sun, they claimed they hoped I was just like her.

At first I was horrified then I reminded myself that I was writing fiction, she was supposed to be a nasty, evil character and for the vast majority of readers she was and they could empathize with a not terribly likeable slave because in comparison, he was a sweet heart.

If all authors had to write lovey dovey fiction our world would be much poorer for it in my opinion, heck we couldn't even have most of the greatest works of literature or religion. (not that I am in any way comparing my writing to any of that; I have confidence in my writing but I'm that vain)

Like I said earlier I don't care about Goreans or the books or the author for that matter any more than a do entire other categories of kink simply because they don't do anything positive for me or my sexuality. Clearly it appeals to some people and as long as they don't push themselves onto me and mine, it really is a matter between them.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:17:58 PM

nikaa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite

man wrote the bible and claim it's gods word. it's "the law". what a crock. same goes to those egotisical creature goreans.

I am curious as to who your anger is really targeted at.

I am also curious as to why you would compare those that follow the bible and see it as the word of God and Goreans.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:21:13 PM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

I rather much live in an Amazon world.

The fictional Amazons removed one of their breasts so that they'd be better with a bow. Are you sure you'd prefer to live in that world?

Just an aside from someone working on the Amazon legends for her PhD... depends on the legends. Amazons change according to the needs of the author using them even in the ancient world. Their authors, by the way, are all male (we only have surviving accounts but none of the named non-suriving authors were female).

Having written a collection of erotic stories based on these legends I can say that I personal don't the idea of superiority is better or worse whether or not is based on sex, gender, age, race, religion or any other criteria.

The original poster of the claim that she would rather live with Amazons is expressing her preference -- why attack her preference if you do not want others to attack yours? Sometimes when others hurt us we need to ignore them rather than attack -- not easy but perhaps wiser?

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:34:50 PM

YourShyPet

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Smartassery Insuing...

Never tried to feel Gor.... but I was once felt up by a really hot guy named Thor.... mmmmmmm that trip to Norway mmmmmmm

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/4/2007 5:39:25 PM

sharainks

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Of course they are, thats why they are given the majority of the task of perpetuating the human race. It only makes sense to give that task to the weaker of the sexes right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

IInferior, at what? Inferior at contending with men for dominance in a world where physical prowess still mattered? Yeah, women, taken as a group, are inferior.

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