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Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 9:05:16 PM

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Read these articles and wonder how far is too far.

quote:

Gavin Gordon-Crawley, a pack a day smoker, and his wife Jeanette are under investigation for smoking in their own home. The couple's next door neighbor, who hasn't been named, complained to local authorities that cigarette smoke was "permeating into her living room."
The Gordon-Crawleys, while sympathetic to the public smoking ban set to take place in the UK later this year, feel that this particular complaint "must be some sort of joke." The local public protection service isn't laughing. According a spokesperson, "In this instance, we have received a complaint stating that smoking in a house in the Caernarfon area is causing a nuisance to the neighbours and as a local authority we have a statutory responsibility to investigate this complaint."

In Bangor, Maine smoking has been banned in privately owned automobiles when children are in the vehicle. This is considered a primary violation- the police have the authority to charge the driver; it doesn't have to be connected with a motor vehicle violation. The next logical step is banning smokng while a child is in the same room. You would need an ever-present orwellian big brother to enforce that however.

I am a smoker, but do respect the rights of non-smokers. I do not smoke when children are in the car or in homes, where others do not smoke. But to tell me I cannot smoke in my own home? I think I would try to insulate my home better, before I would let someone take another freedom away.

Mistress Ylwa

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 9:10:09 PM

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Do you have a link for that?

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 9:35:35 PM

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Freedom us usually given away. First other people's soon enough yours.

This was the latest new frontier for the anti-smoker crowd. In Seattle soon landlords will make entire apartment buildings non-smoking

quote:

Spurred on by nonsmoking tenants and public-health leaders, more private landlords are considering restricting smoking inside their rental units. And local public-housing agencies are also looking at banning smoking in the units of some buildings Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003526616_smoking16m.html

But its "just smokers".

We are only at the beginning of other frontiers. Fat and fat people are next on the list. We not only surrender to, but support laws restricting certain types of fat. In the UK there is no outcry for prohibiting ads for fattening products. Hell, on this site there were advocates for relinquishing access to information rationalizing it wasn't a surrendering of freedom. We are at the point where the anti-fat group is where the anti-smoking group was in the '60s. It will be faster this time, because they have a path to follow. Start with "protecting the children".

Who know, in 10 or 15 years there will be special "donut zones" in the workplace.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 10:28:43 PM

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Not a smoker. I don't believe smokers should be allowed to smoke in a public area [ Bar, casino, ect. ] because you can go outside and smoke! AND YES. Second hand smoke kills!!! However, your own home... I dont care what you do in your own house. You paid for the place...

~Koukei MonStar~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 10:44:39 PM

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I hike and metal detect in parks. I have run across no smoking parks. I have also run across parks that did not allow you to take pets in with you.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 10:54:38 PM

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No pets allowed parks SUCK. Whats the fun of going to the park if my doggie cant chase the ducks? And no smoking park!? Now that I do not agree with even as a non smoker. Its a park... its outside... WTH?

~Koukei MonStar~

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 10:58:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Who know, in 10 or 15 years there will be special "donut zones" in the workplace.

I know a lot of police who will get pretty upset when they are told they cant eat donuts at work.

Regarding smoking. I will reiterate my comment that I really could give a rat's ass whether somebody smokes
or not as long as they dont force me to breath the smoke.

Unfortunately, the pro-smoking people never face the fact that they are polluting air other people breathe when they rant about their rights being abridged.

Sinergy

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 10:59:08 PM

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Yes here in Maryland I have a couple no pet parks and no smoking parks. The number is small but I hope it is not a growing trend. I repect the curb your dog rule, the pet on leash rule, but the no dog or smoking rule is overboard.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 11:05:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElectraGlide

Yes here in Maryland I have a couple no pet parks and no smoking parks. The number is small but I hope it is not a growing trend. I repect the curb your dog rule, the pet on leash rule, but the no dog or smoking rule is overboard.

They wont let dogs smoke in Maryland?

BASTARDS!

Sinergy

edited because my morpheme was unexpressed.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 1/16/2007 11:06:28 PM >

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 11:11:54 PM

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Sinergy lol that was a good one. Smoking in the park may be a fire hazzard, not sure just a theory. Both parks are part woods and part fields, both parts could be fire hazzards under dry conditions.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 11:13:40 PM

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Here in Greenville there is a new ordinance that states you are not allowed to smoke in or within 100 feet of a business. They will fine individuals caught within 100 feet of a business 50 dollars for each offense. Where are employees supposed to go when they only have 10-15 minutes for a smoke break? To walk 100 feet away from any business and smoke would take too long.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 11:28:33 PM

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The new UK laws that are due in sometime later this year will outlaw smoking in any covered public place, that will include such silly concepts as standing under a bridge or in a recessed doorway.

Just waiting for a test case as regards smoking in a car with a window open :)

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/16/2007 11:48:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElectraGlide

Yes here in Maryland I have a couple no pet parks and no smoking parks. The number is small but I hope it is not a growing trend. I repect the curb your dog rule, the pet on leash rule, but the no dog or smoking rule is overboard.

You know, it is very annoying when I walk to the gym, people let their dogs shit all over the sidewalks and I have to watch for the bombs everywhere.... that is not right. Which brings me to my next point

quote:

This was the latest new frontier for the anti-smoker crowd. In Seattle soon landlords will make entire apartment buildings non-smoking

In California landlords already discriminate against smokers, and for good reason. Nicotine is damaging to the property. In my apartment a heavy smoker lived for a number of years. The smell of the nicotine still comes through the vents when I turn on my air or heat after it has not been in use for a while. In my bathroom there is nicotine seeping through the paint. It took several scrubbings for me to get the nicotine off the unpainted surfaces (cabinets and doors. It has been cleaned before I moved in, but was so disgusting they gave me half off my first month's rent to reclean this off after I showed the manager.

Private property, it is up the discretion of those who own it what goes on there. They restrict pet ownership for the same reasons. It seems fair to me that landlords would want to reduce fire insurance and maintenance costs by only renting to nonsmokers.

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(in reply to ElectraGlide)

RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 12:01:36 AM

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quote:

But its "just smokers".

We are only at the beginning of other frontiers. Fat and fat people are next on the list. We not only surrender to, but support laws restricting certain types of fat. In the UK there is no outcry for prohibiting ads for fattening products. Hell, on this site there were advocates for relinquishing access to information rationalizing it wasn't a surrendering of freedom. We are at the point where the anti-fat group is where the anti-smoking group was in the '60s. It will be faster this time, because they have a path to follow. Start with "protecting the children".

Who know, in 10 or 15 years there will be special "donut zones" in the workplace.

You're on the money, Merc.

It wasn't but a month ago that I read an article in the WSJ suggesting we might one day target procrastinators....and how they're really costing us in lost productivity /revenue. Might procrastination one day be considered a crime? Perhaps you'll take a pill for it?

It was about eight months ago that my own mother passed away due to complications from the ills of smoking. She woulda been one of the first people to jump on the stage, get to the podium, and tell everyone that we need to quell the talk of such intrusive concepts and stop trying to protect people from themselves.

Anyways.....I've never smoked and don't eat junk /fast-food, but I fully support the rights of folks that do. If I'm in a bar or restaurant and it's just too smokey, I'll go to another one that isn't.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 1/17/2007 12:03:45 AM >

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 12:28:43 AM

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There is a big difference between private apartment owners (for example) deciding to rent to only non smokers ( It's a free country for now), and the government passing those same laws. It amazes me how so many don't see the difference. Or don't care.
I guess an apartment owner who decides to rent to only non smokers has that right, but if they decide to rent to only smokers, they wouldn't have that right? Only in America.

< Message edited by Masternslave07 -- 1/17/2007 12:30:39 AM >

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 1:48:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

The new UK laws that are due in sometime later this year will outlaw smoking in any covered public place

A covered public place is a vague term that could have different meanings for different people. Another poster was miles away with his understanding of where smoking will be banned in Britain.

Please specify what you mean and then people can discuss the positives and negatives.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 1:48:56 AM

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Preserve us from liberal puritan fascists.

Many of the same type of people that want a universal ban on smoking, eating fatty foods and alcohol will be the same people who want to ban kink so beware.

These people have a particular state of mind and it is not any particular issue that drives them, when they have banned one thing, they will look for the next thing to ban.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 2:03:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Preserve us from liberal puritan fascists.

Many of the same type of people that want a universal ban on smoking, eating fatty foods and alcohol will be the same people who want to ban kink so beware.

These people have a particular state of mind and it is not any particular issue that drives them, when they have banned one thing, they will look for the next thing to ban.

MC, you lose all sense of perspective on this subject. Smoking, alcohol and fatty foods are not banned in Britain - not universally banned or even banned for one single person.

The diffference of opinion here is this: some posters are saying an individual should be allowed to do whatever he/she wants, others are saying well hang on a minute - an individual should only be allowed to do whatever he/she wants providing it has no negative impact on society.

I doubt anyone believes an individual such as a serial killer should be allowed to do whatever he wants and kill a few people.

I doubt anyone believes an individual should be allowed to break into your home and steal your possessions.

It goes without saying that the above two are not in the best interests of society.

Thus, the question is: is smoking in a public place in the interests of the people standing around you? Passive smoking has been identified as knocking a few years of peoples' lives.

Smoke yourself to death in your own home, or even in places identified as smoking establishments (and there will be some in Britain under the new law) but why should smokers have the right to go into any pub and knock a few years off the lives of people sat around you? From where I'm standing a smoker would be intruding into the private space of a non-smoker not the other way around. So, if the discussion is about intrusion, allow non-smokers their private space free of the pollutants from your vice.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 2:10:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

The new UK laws that are due in sometime later this year will outlaw smoking in any covered public place

A covered public place is a vague term that could have different meanings for different people. Another poster was miles away with his understanding of where smoking will be banned in Britain.

Please specify what you mean and then people can discuss the positives and negatives.

Yup - another wonderfully vague Blair law! Admittedly I was working from older memories but I wouldnt mind betting that as usual it will be legislation that does not cover what it should, and will cover what it should not.

I havent researched the law fully as I aim to be unaffected by it in the very near future. Although a quick google does give the impression that yet the proposals have undergone some watering down as is becoming usual.

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RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? - 1/17/2007 2:14:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Smoke yourself to death in your own home, or even in places identified as smoking establishments (and there will be some in Britain under the new law) but why should smokers have the right to go into any pub and knock a few years off the lives of people sat around you? From where I'm standing a smoker would be intruding into the private space of a non-smoker not the other way around. So, if the discussion is about intrusion, allow non-smokers their private space free of the pollutants from your vice.

We've been here before, a car driver pollutes the local atmosphere with more carcenogens than a passing smoker. No one complains about streets full of cars spewing out carcenogens into the atmosphere which is why I tend not to take raving anti-smokers seriously.

There are plenty of smokers here in Amsterdam and as I walk round the city I don't get cigarette smoke wafting in my face. Since the last thread on here about smoking I took note as I walked around of how many times I could smell smoke or had it wafting in my face. The only way I could contrive to get smoke wafting in my face would be to fuck a smoker. However, car fumes were everywhere. Maybe the car fumes were masking the cigarette smoke?

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