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I just firgure it out - 3/3/2005 7:30:05 PM

CuteNSassy

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From: Barrie
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Today i was reading a post that i started and people made me see that i like to Top from the bottom.. Now what i want to know is that i don't want to give full controll, or is it that i am a brat....

Please let me know what Y/you think

Cute

< Message edited by CuteNSassy -- 3/3/2005 7:33:23 PM >

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/3/2005 9:10:16 PM

MzBerlin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy

Today i was reading a post that i started and people made me see that i like to Top from the bottom.. Now what i want to know is that i don't want to give full controll, or is it that i am a brat....

Please let me know what Y/you think

Cute

I think that is for you to decide. Based on the other thread that you're referencing, I would say that you're an unrealistic submissive. Or someone who WANTS to be submissive but doesn't want to give up control. Obviously, I don't know you and only have a limited view of your situation. However- only you can determine what your personality type is.
JMHO
Berlin

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 12:08:50 AM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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I guess I am qualified to speak on this, aren't I?

If I was to give My opinion, based upon what I now know of BDSM (which is not anywhere near exhaustive knowledge, I guarantee you that) and eight months of being with you, I think you may very well be a sub of convenience as I call it, or a level three sub as a very knowledgeable poster stated. I know you have submissive qualities to you, I have witnessed them on many occasions. I have seen your honest desire to please and look after Me. I have seen your humble side. I have observed your obedience when you feel it appropriate. I have enjoyed many S&M scenes with you and W/we have attended alternative lifestyle events. you have a lot of good in you and I would be lying if I said you did not. you have a good heart this is certain and that, to tell you the truth, is what I fell in love with. Indeed I learned a love with you that I never thought possible.

Where I see the problem lies is in your obedience to clear directions that do not suit you. Suddenly you move the goal posts and turn the playing field upside down. Some of it has to do with your mood, this is certain. However, there is much that has to do with an inate characteristic within you. If you do not feel like doing it, you simply do not do it. Perhaps it is stubborness, a strong will, or as you say a desire to retain control. Even though you say you've given up control I don't believe you truly did to the extent that you agreed upon.

I have been witness to times when you would disobey an actual direct order and simply walk away to do your own thing regardless of the consequences. you would refuse to communicate your feelings or demonstrate respect. Indeed it seemed like it was your way or no way. When it was time to be disciplined you put up a fight. When discipline warranted you stay off the computers you had a fit. When it warranted a spanking you would drag or push Me down the hall to avoid the punishment, stating that you did not need to be punished. That is another thing that you struggle with. Accepting and living with the consequences of your actions. This, of course, is one of the things W/we are working on now.

So in short there is a ring of truth to statements that you Top from the bottom. At least you attempt to and go so far as using physical force to achieve your goals. I truly believe that one poster in the other thread was right when She proclaimed that you were a level three sub. I think she hit the nail right on the head. I truly believe you want to be a submissive, that you have the ability to be submissive ingrained in you, but there is a quality within that is holding you back from being everything you could be.

Now, I am not saying it was always this way. Certainly not. you had your run of good days without question. Of importance to note, since O/our seperation I have noted that you have been on your best behaviour. you have been very obedient, taking direction without complaint no matter how simple or difficult the direction was (and you know what I am talking about). you have taken the initiative to ask Me questions to ascertain what I desired without Me even having to direct you. you have demonstrated the initiative to look after Me. you have been softspoken and humble in your approach. I will not judge whether this is an effort to achieve the second chance that you desire or a concerted effort to change your behaviour, but whatever it is, I have taken notice and I have been pleased. Keep it up.

Anyways, you know how I feel about you and I hope this helped you. Perhaps other posters will carry additional insight to what I have offered.

Attachment (1)

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 5:41:00 AM

CuteNSassy

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From: Barrie
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Thank you for being up front and honest with me, i need that...

Cute

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 5:54:57 AM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

Today i was reading a post that i started and people made me see that i like to Top from the bottom.. Now what i want to know is that i don't want to give full controll, or is it that i am a brat....

Please let me know what Y/you think

Cute

Because you are asking directly, in the appropriate thread for me, what I think, I'm guess that's an invitation to tell you.

I think you know exactly what you are doing here. I think that you are doing your best to manipulate the man you are with (who has already identified himself in a previous thread). I think you need to be taken in hand, and taught that it's really innappropriate to air your dirty laundry on a public board this way. I think you probably need to be punished for some seriously inappropriate behavior. I think you see this whole "BDSM" world as a game, and that's unfortunate. I think there hasn't been a Twinkie produced since 1964, regardless of the fact that new boxes continue to appear on grocers shelves. I think that you think you are 'cute' but really, you aren't. I think if you are serious about continuing your relationship, you'll surrender to your Master. I think if you aren't, then he's a fool to keep you. I think if what is driving this need for you to try to sort out a personal relationship is fear, then you need to discuss this with Him. I think by the very action of you taking all of these problems to the boards, and avoiding discussing these issues with him directly, you've already made your decision and aren't really looking for help, but as you say, to top from the bottom.

I probably think too much.

Lily

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 6:41:39 AM

SecretDomme

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The concept of an adult behaving as a "brat" has always been one that puzzles me...

Be well,
Julie

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 9:20:15 AM

CuteNSassy

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thanks

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 12:27:46 PM

MsCameron

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy

Today i was reading a post that i started and people made me see that i like to Top from the bottom.. Now what i want to know is that i don't want to give full controll, or is it that i am a brat....

Please let me know what Y/you think

Cute

What do you think topping from the bottom means? To me, it's manipulation to get what you want.
Topping from the bottom and/or being a brat has nothing to do with being a switch.

MsC

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I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 6:10:48 PM

NoPinkBalloons

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Based on that "other" thread, you sound like what a friend refers to as a 3M submissive....

Master Make Me (do all the things that I want to do, but don't you dare ask anything of me that I don't like!)

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/4/2005 6:59:59 PM

aliljaded1

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OMG AMEN!

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/5/2005 12:51:44 AM

MzBerlin

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Lily-

EXACTLY!!!

-B

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/5/2005 7:25:20 PM

CuteNSassy

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It doesn't matter what i say in here, everyone takes it the wrong way... So i'll just leave it well enough alone... i'm a submissive i know i'm... i love to take care of my Sir, i am a good girl most time, but shit everyone has a bad day, or a brattie day.... Just because i don't do thing Y/your way doesn't mean i am not a sub...

Cute

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/6/2005 2:45:14 PM

MadameBette

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Joined: 9/8/2004
From: Long Island, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy
It doesn't matter what i say in here, everyone takes it the wrong way... So i'll just leave it well enough alone... i'm a submissive i know i'm... i love to take care of my Sir, i am a good girl most time, but shit everyone has a bad day, or a brattie day.... Just because i don't do thing Y/your way doesn't mean i am not a sub...
Cute

Methinks you protest too much, my dear.

I missed the original thread, but if ‘everyone’ else takes it the ‘wrong’ way, maybe you need to take a really good look at yourself, and your reactions. It seems that you ‘react’ rather than ‘respond’ to opinions and situations you don’t like. You ask for advice, yet appear unwilling to take, or even consider it.

A Dom who was trained ‘Old Guard’, once told me that there are four rules of BDSM. Please pay careful attention to the second.

First: Protect the property.
Aside from the obvious, that the Dom protects his sub in an SSC manner, and the sub protects her Dom by serving his needs, there’s the larger picture.

It is imperative that both parties bring a ‘whole’ person to the relationship.

Excess baggage should be checked at the door. If either of you has any serious emotional issues, it’s his/her responsibility to seek appropriate therapy to resolve these BEFORE attempting a relationship. Otherwise you are offering your partner ‘damaged goods’.

While your Dom/me may help you with certain things, he or she is not your therapist.
For example, I know a slave who is morbidly obese. She is working with a counselor about her weight. But her Master has asked her to present him with a daily food diary. He positively reinforces her good efforts. Another has a ‘spending’ problem, and her Dom taught her how to budget. It’s wonderful that these people are supportive, but it is not their job to ‘fix’ their partners. Each person is responsible for him or herself.

Second: Any action which produces feelings, that produce emotions, which, in turn produce a reaction, is information that must be told to the Dom. If anything interferes with your service, or shifts your mindset, it should be reported to the Dom immediately.
Once you have discussed any limits you may have and agreed to enter into a relationship you must do your best to honor that commitment. Submission is not a buffet; you don’t get to pick and choose.
And you don’t just walk away when something happens that you don’t like. It’s your responsibility to ask to discuss it with your Dom.

Third: There is no consent in subspace. We should all know that.

Fourth: Nobody is bigger than the rules. Dom or sub. Got it?

Point to ponder: He also said, “If you are ‘topping from the bottom’, ask yourself, are you doing it to serve your needs, or those of the relationship?”

You may want to examine your motives for your actions, and then take responsibility for the consequences.

Good luck.

~ Bette

PS: I've just been reading through various threads, the ongoing saga of the two people involved here.
You guys need a lot more help than anything that could be written here.
I'm sorry you have such troubles. God bless.

< Message edited by MadameBette -- 3/6/2005 3:07:01 PM >

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/6/2005 9:43:06 PM

MzBerlin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy

It doesn't matter what i say in here, everyone takes it the wrong way... So i'll just leave it well enough alone... i'm a submissive i know i'm... i love to take care of my Sir, i am a good girl most time, but shit everyone has a bad day, or a brattie day.... Just because i don't do thing Y/your way doesn't mean i am not a sub...

Cute

I don't think that anyone is taking what you have to say the "wrong" or "right" way. We are taking it as you're typing it. (incorrect grammar, bad spelling and run-on sentences aside) Granted, everyone has a bad day. We CHOOSE how to respond to our "bad" days. Acting out is not appropriate behavior. It simply isn't. And this doesn't have to do with my way or her way or anyones' "way". It has to do with submitting to the dynamic, to fulfilling your promises, to respecting the structure of the relationship that you have agreed to enter.
Being is in Doing. Just my opinion.
Berlin

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/7/2005 2:40:20 PM

SirKenin

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I do not think A/anyone has taken it the wrong way actually. That is unless I have taken it the wrong way Myself. I bear witness to knee jerk reactions, self destructive tendencies and a desire to have things her own way. I have been excessively patient and understanding, perhaps too much so. I have done everything I could within My power so to speak. Now, when that everything is not good enough, I must refocus My attentions elsewhere. Although there are more details I doubt very much A/anyone wants to hear them, so I will spare Y/you.

I have learned many things from this whole thing, including this message board, and certainly one thing I have learned is that I will not be so tolerant in the future. Life is truly a learning experience and BDSM is no exception to that rule. To her, I publicly state that My feelings for her have not changed and I wish her the best of luck in all her future endeavours.

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/7/2005 2:47:06 PM

SirKenin

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MadameBette: Excellent post. I enjoyed reading it and took some mental notes. I tried too hard to help her because My love for her got in the way. A lesson learned for next time I assure You.

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Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/10/2005 5:26:20 PM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

Today i was reading a post that i started and people made me see that i like to Top from the bottom.. Now what i want to know is that i don't want to give full controll, or is it that i am a brat....

Go figure, I gotta be a little bit different.... CNS, I think part of the problem is that you don't trust yourself enough. I know, been there. Maybe the answer would be to do some soul searching and get to know yourself better before you try to get involved in another D/s or M/s relationship. I have a very dear friend that once said she was Dominant out of necessity, submissive by nature and a slave at heart. I told her it's all good so long as you know, trust and respect yourself. Just my opinion, and maybe a place to start?

Jewel

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/10/2005 6:12:22 PM

MizSuz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy

It doesn't matter what i say in here, everyone takes it the wrong way... So i'll just leave it well enough alone... i'm a submissive i know i'm... i love to take care of my Sir, i am a good girl most time, but shit everyone has a bad day, or a brattie day.... Just because i don't do thing Y/your way doesn't mean i am not a sub...

, she said as she stamped her foot on the ground and folded her arms defensively.

Drama addiction is indicative of bigger problems, problems generally not suited to work out in the scene.

Get a therapist and spend some time getting to know who you are underneath your emotional reactions (and the apparent inappropriate behavior that follows). Take that time to step away and get a relationship with yourself before you try to get a relationship with someone else. Topping from the bottom is usually a fancy schmancy BDSM term for "manipulation," especially if it's not consensual. It's still dysfunction (as is evidenced by it's negative impact on your life and your relationships).

Reacting (behaviorily) from emotion and ego is the excuse of the low self-esteem drama hound. There is no dominant alive who can give you enough self esteem to allow you to let go of your ego (or at least the knowledge to use your ego instead of letting it use you). If you're broken it's up to YOU to fix yourself.

Know that anyone who plays into your drama is probably not savy or clear enough to dominate you well, anyway. Most 'rescuers' are as dysfunctional as those they try to rescue.

"Everyone has baggage. I request merely that yours be small enough to fit under the seat in front of you." It sounds like you're dragging steamer trunks around.

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/10/2005 6:20:23 PM

MizSuz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

and certainly one thing I have learned is that I will not be so tolerant in the future. Life is truly a learning experience and BDSM is no exception to that rule.

There is a difference between tolerance and knowing your boundaries and how to police them. I suggest (admittedly unsolicited) a bit of self examination as to why you would allow yourself to be engaged in such a relationship - and that any answer that has anybody's name in it other than yours is probably bullshit.

I commend you on your willingness to redirect your energies and respectfully submit that responding to these sorts of things is indicative of a willingness to remain engaged. For me it would be very telling of something I needed to look at in myself.

Unless you are making a concious choice to allow the drama (albeit in a more palatable form for the moment) to continue. If so, then I thank you for sparing us any further details.

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RE: I just firgure it out - 3/10/2005 6:21:28 PM

MizSuz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I tried too hard to help her because My love for her got in the way.

With all due respect - bullshit.

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