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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 1:35:48 PM   
SimplyMichael


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I am amazed at how many are willing to just junk a relationship that clearly has things going for it.  It may NOT work but much of what isn't working is a lack of growth and experience on both sides, things which not only could be changed but should be changed.

Connections are not easy to find, I play in the bay area and I have only had a handful and I am one lucky bastard.   Don't quite, work on this relationship.  You both want each other but you both lack the skills to make it work.

Imagine if you, with his help could become a bit more secure.  Imagine if he, with your help could become better at giving you a bit more of what you need.  The relationship isn't bad it just isn't as good as it could be.  Face it, do you have lots of other options?  If you do, and as a young woman you might, then consider pursuing them, but if you don't, I would seriously suggest trying to work on yourself IN this relationship. 

As LA says, it doesn't have to be perfect, just honest. 

Okay, here is some psychobabble that might help.   Try communicating in in ways that that do not blame.  Rather than "you don't call me enough" try "I really need to  hear from you more, can you help me?   When you listen to him, take a hammer to that voice in your head that is looking for slights, insults, and jealousy.  Instead when he says "I can't remember to call you" rather than hearing "I don't care enough about you to call you" hear "I am busy and I am not good at calling you".

Its hard, there are no easy answers, relationships take work, lots and lots of work.  They take looking inward as well as looking past what others say and remembering their actions as well and internalizing that.

I wish you the best though.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 1:42:25 PM   
desires2


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Joined: 1/26/2007
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I just read your topic and was moved to respond.  I agree with the others that trying to change someone into what we need is a no win situation.  I have found that is best to be myself..good and bad..and let my Dom learn what I am all about.  Some days I am clingy..some days jealous..sometimes just an outright "bitch"...but all in all..I have tried to be the submissive/woman that He fell in love with. I am just human though..and my moods swing sometimes.   I am so far from being perfect...and you don't have to be either sweetie.  I don't think either one of you are to blame..sometimes people are just too different to be compatible.  You seem like a nice and smart lady~~don't settle for anyone less than a Dom that meets all your needs and feeds from them.  As for long distance..I understand that too..although my Dom is relocating here, it has been hard.  In the end, you have to do what makes you happy.  If this guy is not the right one for whatever reason, learn from it and move ahead.  Somewhere out there the right Dom is waiting for you.  In the meantime, just know that you have a lot of support here.  I only joined this site two days ago, and I am very impressed with the advice given and the people I have encountered.  Good luck to you sweetie..and don't be hard on yourself or him...when one door closes another one opens.  ~Smiles~

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 1:51:42 PM   
CrazyC


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Micheal actually pinned  the nail on the head. It's called active listening, and many couples still have a hard time with it. I know i take things as personal attacks when really the other person is just trying to explain a feeling. The best way to talk that out is to ask him.."This is what i heard....am i correct?" Be open to whatever the comment is. Also when you start a conversation about what is going on with yourself, remember this might be something you are still dealing with emotionally from past relationships. So the feeling might not actually be cause by what is actually going on between you two. I find the best way to explain my feelings and needs are to mention that you understand this is how you feel and not an accusation on him. More something you would like to work out. Remember to try to place yourself in his shoes before speaking. It usually helps to remind him that you understand where he is coming from.

if anything, this will help you in the long run.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 1:56:24 PM   
GeekyGirl


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At this point, I suppose the ball is in his court...He said, "It's over" on the phone... I can't make him change his mind and I'm not sure I want to. I feel frustrated and confused. Perhaps at the very least, some time apart and talking to other people will lend perspective to the situation. I feel that I did try very hard to communicate with him...I wasn't perfect at it, but I feel I did my best. This is actually the 2nd time he's said we're over...I'm scared of agreeing to try and work things out and getting hurt all over again. *sigh*.


(in reply to CrazyC)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 2:00:30 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Listening and communicating is something we all talk about but very very very few have the skills to do even a half assed job of it.  One first has to know what it is they really want to communicate, not the surface crap but the real core, then you need to find words that not only convey the though to you but in a way that the other person can hear which means not hitting any of their buttons, something that is very very tricky to do.

An important concept is to forget right/wrong and win/lose paradigms and start thinking about making it work for both of you and only when it doesn't do you lose.

(in reply to CrazyC)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 2:05:25 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Geeky,

I swear I must have broken up with the one you remind me of 20 times?  I don't know but oh my god the drama, but the connection was insane, party because we were both a bit addicted to drama but much of it was very very real, we shared a lot of common ground, something I find rare.

Work on yourself, when you catch yourself saying negative things about yourself, stop and look at why and try and move away from it.  Think about this, twice you have broken up but he came back.  Why?  Why did he come back?  Perhaps because he sees something in you you don't?  That you are indeed special and worth loving, even knowing how much fucking work you are!  Spend a bit of time internalizing THAT and what it means.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 2:10:43 PM   
CrazyC


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Oh sweety.. sorry to hear. Step back and give him some time. That and give yourself sometime. :-) I know it fucking sucks right now, but it isn't forever.

*hugs*

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 2:55:44 PM   
afeathr


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Joined: 6/1/2006
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You know, this is one of the most objective self reflective posts I have ever seen, without blaming. You are a very mature lady. No matter what happens, you are going to have a lot of growth from this experience, if that is any consolation at this point.



I couldn't agree more.  I do also like the fact that the OP uses "I feel" rather than "he never does this, that or the other" - a very good way to take on some of the brunt of the situation.

Now to the situation:  when Sir and I first starting seeing each other, I felt similar to you (in some regards) in that I felt he wasn't really interested because he didn't act the way *I* wanted him to.  To that end, we had a really open discussion and I realized that I was asking for more than he was able to give, at that time.  8 months later, we now live together and I couldn't ask for a better relationship (I want to cry whenever I think about how wonderful he is to me).  The point being - we talked *openly* about our feelings and worked things out.

I found that when Sir saw that I was trustworthy, sincere and "real" he was able to open up and I saw a side of him that others rarely (if ever) see.  He trusts me now, and that is what I always wanted.  I trust him too (which I didn't think was possible).

If things are good when you are together, you might want to work at your feelings a little more.  Sir would tell me, "when you feel as though I don't care - change that thought, because I *do*."  You would be surprised at how many times that got me through the pain of our separation (at the time, we were 1 1/2 hours away and only saw each other on the weekends, if time was permitting).

You (the OP) say that you don't want to give up on him cause you think he cares, but how do *you* really feel.  If this is not enough for you, then you need to decide what  you need and either make that work with him or move on.  I know that sounds very cold, but you have already been through some bad times (and at such an early age) and the more you "give in" to what you don't want, the more unhappy you will be later (take it from a "master" at such things).

I get the feeling that you want to give up, but you worry that it will negatively affect your Dom - I know *exactly* how you feel.  However, you have to think about YOU.  If you are miserable, sparring him won't do anything but make BOTH of you miserable.

I realize it's very easy for me to make such comments, but I have been in your shoes, and I would love nothing more than to spare someone the heartache that I have suffered many times.  You seem very mature and are able to see both sides of the coin - which is great - but you also have to remember that *you* are one side of that coin, and the coin can't exist without you.

Good luck and best regards.

< Message edited by afeathr -- 1/28/2007 3:11:04 PM >


_____________________________

afeathr

-Going where the wind blows me...

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 3:15:43 PM   
nini333


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As a new Dom, just into the scene, this is the best advise and discussion forums that I have encountered, I have found it most helpful, just reading thru everyones contributions is so educating and welcome.. I will keep an eye out on whats going and jcontribute more in the future..Just wanted to say that from London, England...But if anyone here has any sound advise for a new Mistress, then pls feel most welcome to drop me a line...God Bless...

(in reply to afeathr)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 3:38:44 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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WOW...

geeky, what Michael wrote...

Print it out, read it, then read it again. The read another time. Study it and keep it and go back to it time to time when you need clarification. One day maybe you can pass it on top another in your situation.



quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

First off, it is posts like this that make me love and treasure this place.  Okay, now I played nice and the gloves come off............


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 3:53:06 PM   
SirDominic


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Here's an even better idea. Print out what SimplyMichael wrote, then burn it. He is giving you incredibly bad advice. Unless what you want is a relationship of drama, frustration, loneliness and chaos.

Never be afraid to cut your losses when something is not working. You two have butted heads from the beginning, and it is not likely to change. So, unless you are into migraines, just quit. He says it is over. You are better off. If he comes crawling back, tell him it is over for you! You can do better than this, geeky. You really can.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 5:00:25 PM   
GeekyGirl


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I've been thinking about this all day, and I'm sort of glad it's over...sort of like a weight being lifted off my shoulders. He's a great person and I treasure his friendship, but I'm not going to miss the headaches....

I'm going to try and cut my losses and hope to meet someone new. I feel like he's not happy, and I'm not happy....and we haven't been for a while now. I feel like I at least deserve to be with someone who makes me happy.

(in reply to SirDominic)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 5:23:55 PM   
LTRsubNW


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To save space, and to agree with the owners of this space as to bandwidth...I haven't reposted your post.

I don't normally reply to such a longwinded post (and yours was)...in fact, I normally avoid such posts...however, yours seemed intently sincere.

You're young.  He's still such.  You at 24...he at 37...(Neither of you is "old" as one would describe).

You're very young.  Enough such that things that seem intent (and intense) are never thus.

I once was encumbered with a woman who was your age...difference, that is....I'm 48...she was 29...close enough.

She was intent, and intense.  I probably should have listened.  I didn't, largely due to my age...and hers.  It would have been at least, flattering.  Until she had to wipe my ass in 20 years.

Possibly he's feeling the same encumberances...although I doubt it.  37 doesn't subscribe to concerns about those things....48 does.

Chill out.  You'll have many more chances.

He may have wished his chances away.  You still have many more.

Don't wish yours away.


< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 1/28/2007 5:24:57 PM >


_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 6:24:18 PM   
julietsierra


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Actually, I agree with Michael - right down the line here.

And I absolutely do not believe that she was necessarily destined for loneliness, etc...

Try a YEAR of seeing someone on and off - more off than on. Try a year of playing only sort of - and always wishing for more. Sometimes crying because you don't know what's going on, why he's doing this, what the deal is. Is he using you, coming over to fuck you and leave, etc?? You learn that he's not always going to answer the phone, and you look forward to the mornings when you talk about everything under the sun and laugh and listen to what he's NOT saying You look forward to the evenings when he calls to tell you about his day and you tell him about yours and you share things that you never thought of sharing before because this is your time with him. It doesn't mean he cares less. It doesn't mean this is all you can ever hope for. It just means that this is what you have at this moment.

And you learn patience. You learn to deal with yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do your work for you. You learn that submission is not always fun and games, and that sometimes, it's hard work. You SLOWLY learn to appreciate when you see him and to get on with your life when you don't. And his touch when he does see you is magical. His voice when you hear him is enough to send you flying.

Slowly, without even realizing it, you are becoming more than you thought you could be. You move past resentment and expectations and the willingness to push him to do what you want instead of waiting for him to do it just because. You start to understand that if he is doing something because you asked, then you never know if he's doing it because you pushed him or if he's doing it because he genuinely wants to - and you start to want desperately for him to do things because he wants to. You learn how to ask for things without demand.

The second year comes along and somewhere along the line, you realize he's spending more time with you than he ever did before. Of course, he mixes it up often. He doesn't want you building expectations. He wants a strong independent woman who willingly submits - not someone who whines and clings and wants him to be responsible for everything in her life, and for some reason, you end up during this year, realizing that you want to be that kind of woman as well. The two of you start to do things he swore he'd never do - like all those vanilla things he said never to count on. You learn that when you didn't count on it, he came through. He came through because now, it was HIS idea, not yours, and while it pisses people off who hear of what he's done, and they all proclaim loudly that he's callous and disregards your feelings, you begin to understand that in his mind, there was more at stake here than just your feelings. Although you never saw it, he was giving you your life back. And you realize that at any time, if you wanted, you could walk away - but each and every time you start thinking along those lines, you're so connected to him now that the thought is really quite frightening. At the same time, you discover that you're not so clingy. You are becoming more confident, even though that confidence is rooted right there in how he handles you. You are more centered, more calm, more able to handle the samsonite of your life, and you're pretty damn proud because you realize that he didn't do this for you - you did it yourself with his support, and that means all the world.

Year three comes along and you find the two of you are seeing each other nearly every single weekend. The only times you miss is when life, work, other responsibilities get in the way - and that's really not that often. He still isn't calling you all the time and at times, it irks you, but you keep on calling in the morning and the evening even when you fall back into old "if he doesn't call, *I'M* sure as hell not going to" patterns because you realize that's what he expects you to do - and submitting is paramount now. You sometimes question if he's really as solid as you imagine him to be because it's only now that you're seeing that he is so vastly different from the people that came before that he's somehow restored your belief in the men in your relationships. You find you're not so darned angry at the abuse you went through prior to him. All of that is lessening it's power to hurt you and now, you can start to feel good about what was good when you were in those relationships without it all dredging up the bad feelings and memories.

Year four arrives. You find with some shock that you love him. You love him beyond anything you've ever felt before and sometimes, it scares you. You look back to when you used to be so clingy and weepy and demanding and wonder if that was really you, but you know it was, and upon contemplation, you really find that you like YOURSELF much better now. You're strong without being demanding. You're confident without ultimatums. You're patient, because you just KNOW he's going to be around and you finally realize that all the stuff you were doing back at the beginning was really because fear was controlling your life. You find you were so afraid of being caught again in the same types of relationships you'd walked away from that you tried to structure precisely the kind of relationship you thought you wanted - and yet, you find that there's little left of what you thought you wanted and what you didn't think you'd ever want is precisely what you needed. The play you engage in is deeper, longer, more involved, and more and more, you find yourself completely overwhelmed by the feelings he evokes in you. And you find that although submission is sometimes difficult, it is rewarding beyond compare. You find that you are one healthy young woman and you find that there's a whole world out there that you had no concept of and that you'd have had no concept of if you hadn't given him the time to show you what could be.

And drama simply is not a part of anything anymore.

That's what it could have been if you and he and your relationship had been given the time. It's what could have been if you'd simply waited to see what life was going to bring. It's what could have been if you'd realized that more often than not, our feelings are our worst enemies and that our feelings are most often based on insecurities and fears, not what we "need." It's what could have been if you'd have had those long conversations with yourself to discover that what we call "feelings" are more often than not, unresolved issues from an earlier time and then searched for a way to resolve them. It's what could have been if you'd have understood that all too often what we call "feelings" is really this little girl inside us having temper tantrums in order to get what she THINKS she needs to feel good.

But all these suppositions are really just that. I was exactly where you are now four years ago. That dominant in your life sounds just like the Master in mine. And my suppositions for you are how things turned out for me, which I understand is no guarantee that they could be the same for you. But now... you'll never know.

juliet

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 6:34:52 PM   
GeekyGirl


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Thank you for sharing your story Juliet. I have wondered the same things..what if I wait it out and things get better? But the problem is that there is also every chance that four years from now, nothing will be different and I'll be even more miserable and four years older on top of it. That thought scares the snot out of me.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 1/28/2007 6:38:46 PM >

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Tough Decisions and Knowing When to Move On - 1/28/2007 6:40:34 PM   
julietsierra


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Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Thank you for sharing your story Juliet. I have wondered the same things..what if I wait it out and things get better? But the problem is that there is also every chance that four years from now, nothing will be different and I'll be even more miserable and four years older on top of it. That thought scares the snot out of me.


Yup...used to scare me too - horribly. I just decided I'd had enough of being scared and thought "what the hell" and went along for the ride. In my case, it was a good decision. Also in my case, he believes in doing things naturally - that given the chance, without pushing, things will always become clear - no matter which way you decide to go.

And I found I had to agree with him, because I remembered questioning over and over again when I was married how I'd know when things were over. And I discovered that when they were, there was absolutely no question or wavering in my mind. They were just over. (That's what I mean about things happening naturally verses us pushing them to happen.)

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 1/28/2007 6:44:08 PM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
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