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lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections


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lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 1/29/2007 9:33:18 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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ok my last thread kinda, went not the exact direction i was looking for, maybe its my own fault and wasnt clear enough - but it got kinda flamey and while i am glad so many guys and girls shared their stories, i am looking for a bit more ....

my OP question: "if you recieve or issue pain to ease the physical or emotional pain of you or your other - this question is directed towards you.

>>>>>were you a cutter? were they?<<<<<"


and to elaborate, i guess i was looking for if you who gave or recieved, saw connections between past or present cutting and the relief a good session could provide for you/them...

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RE: lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 3/31/2007 10:49:46 AM   
lillostangel


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Joined: 3/18/2007
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im glad this question was asked......i have been reading all the different threads and posts on this subject and was actually goin to bring up this very thing. i am a cutter. have been there done that and then some.  as to the question....my answer is yes. when
nothing else worked i went to my Master(ex now). when i felt the urge and felt i
could not control them myself, i went to Him and He afflicted that pain upon my body
till i had had enough and this did work! in fact, its the only thing that truly
works for me. i admit i have tried everything i know of. i had also sought help
through groups and therapy and none of it worked. i also taught a bi-polor group with a therapist for three years. self-mutilation issues re-occurring
all the time. there are many things out there to try, however nothing really worked
for me except going to my One and asking Him. lol as for the rest i will spare Eeveryone the details of my thoughs, opinions and experiences.

(in reply to mixielicous)
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RE: lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 4/6/2007 12:49:01 AM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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Receiving pain from someone else can be a good alternative to cutting.

There have been successful attempts at treating depression with whipping, since some jurisdictions do not allow the use of external opioids for depression. In the US, at least, buprenorphine is legal for this purpose, although that will also put a complete stop to the whole "pain play" thing, since it's also a very potent analgetic.

Also, for anyone actually doing cutting right now, consider squeezing a block of ice, or whipping yourself, instead. Either of the two can be done with the same intensity and duration of sensation as the cutting, and both will have less detrimental effects on your health.

(in reply to lillostangel)
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RE: lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 4/6/2007 7:10:02 AM   
damia


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Joined: 10/26/2006
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i was a cutter for many years. i have been expressly forbidden to cut myself again, by my Master. But he gives me alternatives of pain, and i have non-self-mutilating techniques that i am allowed.

i think receiving pain from a Dom is a great alternative to cutting. The feelings are there, and the pain received releases the feelings/emotions and distracts the sub.

Just my opinion,
jewel  

(in reply to mixielicous)
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RE: lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 4/6/2007 7:30:26 AM   
fadeddreams


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Joined: 3/16/2007
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Ok class, today Wwe are going to talk about Pain Management. No, i am not going to talk about managing physical pain, that is a topic for yet another class. Today, i am going to talk about managing emotional pain.


Now, there are as many different reasons for emotional pain, as there are people on earth, so i am going to use my own emotional pain for examples during the course of this lecture. Please bear with me if i seem to be repeating things from previous lectures, but they are important, and germane to this one.


As i have stated before, my parents divorced when i was quite young...my father was an abusive alcoholic, his abuse of my mother drove her to the point of abandoning her three daughters to his care to save her own life. That abandonment, however justified in my mothers mind was the beginning of a tremendous load of emotional pain for me. And the beginning of my own abandonment and trust issues. My father more or less emotionally abandoned us, simply because he was not equipped to raise three daughters on his own, and he was drunk 98% of the time.


A child deals with both physical and emotional pain in the way of a child... they let the pain out in the form of tears. That is how children, at least children in my day, handled pain. (nowadays, i think kids start taking antidepressants in their formula... so they never really learn how to feel...and how to handle being hurt) And so, i handled my emotional pain in the way of a child, i cried. Of course, i probably shouldn't have cried in school...or at least that was the message i got from my father... who was livid when he found out. what i learned that day... was that showing ones pain, ones emotions to anyone was a bad thing. And that lesson stuck with me. i learned to bottle everything up, tightly corking and sealing the bottle and hoping that it didn't get shaken. It almost always did, and would explode with the force of Nagasaki.


As a teenager, all those years spent bottling up the pain, corking up the emotions had a devastating effect. Teenagers are volatile anyway...what with raging hormones, and that "i want to be treated like an adult... but i don't want to quit being a child" mentality. Couple those things with unresolved issues, and unhealed pain and it creates a whole new level of pain. Teenagers are resourceful...when it comes to dealing with pain, teenagers have a tendency to turn it against themselves. Teenaged drinking, drug use, eating disorders, sexual addictions, and... my cure of choice... cutting, are among the more common ways teenagers deal with pain. Yes, i really was a cutter...in the upper right hand drawer of the desk i used to have, way in the back was a double edged razor blade. It was clean, and sharp, and i was quite skilled in using it. i could write my name into my flesh, clearly, cleanly. Among other things...there but for the grace of god, i do not carry scars from that time. By all rights, i should, but i don't. It wasn't a frequent thing... most of the time, i could seal up the pain, and at least show a semblence of normalcy. i was an honor student, seldom ever got in trouble either in school or at home. i was in 4H, knitted, crocheted, cooked, did laundry, cleaned for the family. But, inside, i was a seething, roiling mass of unhealed anger, and pain. And,when the pressure grew too great, you could find me in the wee hours of the morning, left arm resting on a towel on my lap, blade lightly held in my right hand... drawing pictures in my own flesh. Using... and that is the key here... using the physical pain to release the emotional pain.


In later years, i shifted to overeating, and in many cases, lashing out in rage over things that inevitably were minor. i eventually topped out at nearly 200 pounds, and i have been married and divorced twice. No, i won't blame myself for everything that went wrong in my marriages, but i won't completely blame my husbands either. At one point not so very long ago, the emotional stresses were so vast...that the old habit of cutting to release the pain returned...but this time, it frightened me.


Fast forward to the present. i discovered about 6 years ago that i was by nature a submissive. Today, i am owned by Master T and his fiancee...and i am slowly learning TRUE submission. Master is taking His time with my training, and for that i am truly grateful.


A long conversation with a couple dear and trusted friends, followed by a similar conversation with Master drew the connection between my teenaged and adult episodes of cutting...and the emotional release of a session. Both of my dear friends are submissives...both have vastly more experience as submissives than i have...and when they explained the connection... my spirit started crying out.. "yes, YES..." that's it...that's why you felt so calm, so centered, so grounded after your first session with Master. The physical pain...opened the door for the emotional release. When the session was over...i knelt between Masters legs... and i gave Him my tears...years.. and years worth of bottled up emotions. No, He hadn't "hurt" me...hadn't pushed the body to the point of tears...but He had opened way for the emtional release that i had so badly needed for so long. And, i know how much better i felt when i finally stopped crying.


So, is there a reason why so many former cutters are submissives? Oh you betcha! The safe pain of a session releases the bottled up emotional pain... without risk of serious physical harm. Now, bear in mind... i said "safe" pain. i know that i am safe with Master...yes...heavy flogging, crops, paddles.. etc.. all hurt...but i know that i am safe...that He is paying attention to me, to my body, to what He is doing. i know that He is not going to harm me. And i also know.. when the session is over...if i need to cry, i can safely do so...in His arms...safe.


With any luck, i will some day be able to predict or warn Master when i am starting into a bad slide, so that He can help me head it off. Alright, lecture over....

_____________________________

Faded Dreams

(in reply to mixielicous)
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RE: lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 4/6/2007 10:29:27 AM   
Aswad


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My condolences on your bad experiences, fadeddreams. I'm glad to hear things are better for you now.

In general, if someone gets full relief from cutting, I would recommend switching to something that isn't as risky, such as squeezing ice cubes, carefully applying capsaicin, or whipping. All of these can probably work better in the context of a D/s dynamic, too.

If cutting, or the safer substitutes, doesn't work, I'd seriously recommend seeing a licensed psychiatrist about managing the problems. Just make sure it is someone who is open to other things than just tossing an SSRI at it, because those only help for a particular subset of these issues. Don't get me wrong, trying one can be a good idea. But if the first one doesn't work, chances are the rest won't, either.

A lot of pdocs will be willing to try stuff like MAOIs, lamotrigine, gabapentin or depakote, which has good potential in dealing with these things for many patients. In my experience, buprenorphine very effectively alleviates mental pain, but few pdocs will be willing to try it, and it is a powerful analgetic, so it can be a problem if your Dom is into pain play. Recent trials with NMDA-antagonists (memantine, ketamine, etc.) indicate that these can give pretty rapid relief too, but that's inpatient care.

Either way, cognitive behavioural therapy is also a good idea. And a kink aware professional can implement this in a D/s-context, by educating the Dom about it and coming up with suitable exercises for the Dom to implement in order to help the sub/slave recover, if the Dom is comfortable with this. The therapist wil have to monitor and follow up, though, of course.

I'd not recommend trying to deal with the mental problems of a sub/slave without the aid of a trained professional. It can work in some cases, but it has a lot of potential to cause significant harm as well, and taking that risk doesn't strike me as responsible when there are alternatives. Done right, with the aid of a professional, it can help for a lot of different things, like depression, anxiety and borderline personality disorder. Cutting is generally a symptom of something, and looking into it seems prudent.


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RE: lets try this again -- cutting & BDSM connections - 4/8/2007 2:27:17 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

In general, if someone gets full relief from cutting, I would recommend switching to something that isn't as risky, such as squeezing ice cubes, carefully applying capsaicin, or whipping. All of these can probably work better in the context of a D/s dynamic, too.



I've only ever infrequently had an urge to cut, but in trying not to do it even then I found that sticking my fingertips repeatedly with a (sterilized) pin, snapping rubberbands on my wrists, or banging my fist against a hard surface can also 'take the edge off' enough to allow me to get past it and not cut.  I also had a friend that would hold her palm over a lighter til it hurt (but stop before it actually burned her).    Same principle as the ice, etc...only additional suggestions.

Just remember kids, SSC applies to self-play too!

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“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to Aswad)
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