RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (Full Version)

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sissifytoserve -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:40:54 PM)
Chavez is no angel...granted. DUMB-ya Bush IS Hilter reincarnated. Can't think of another person so dedicated to destroying the Constitution and American sovereignty. You get searched and your emails and phone calls monitored.... But the border stays wide open. as his Dad...so aptly said.... It is a BIG IDEA.... A New world Order. Another concept...borrowed by the Nazis. Then again....Prescott Bush helped FUND the nazis and IG Farben/Fritz Thyssen..

WyrdRich -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:41:07 PM)
Nope. It's my universe, the rest of ya'll sneaked in while I was distracted by a romp in bottom mode.

cyberdude611 -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:49:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve Chavez is no angel...granted. DUMB-ya Bush IS Hilter reincarnated. Can't think of another person so dedicated to destroying the Constitution and American sovereignty. What has he destroyed about that wasnt already destroyed? Other than the Patriot Act. quote: You get searched and your emails and phone calls monitored.... That's been going on for about 2 decades. Nothing new there. Remember the FBI's "Carnivore" program? That happened under Clinton. quote: But the border stays wide open. Again, been going on a lot longer than Bush was in. quote: It is a BIG IDEA.... A New world Order. Another concept...borrowed by the Nazis. Kind of different. The Nazis were thinking racially. The neo-cons think financially. But keep in mind that communists are the same way. So does the Islamic extremists. All political and ideological extremes have their own version of a new world order. In 1790, the idea that all nations should be Democratic and controlled by the people was a radical idea. The American revolution sparked a new world order.

Sinergy -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:51:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 All of Europe is allies. Which Europe is this????????? Out of Interest how many European states have an active, effective and noticable military prescence in lands where americans are being shot? How many European states refuse to assist the US (even passively - remember france have banned over-flights in the past)? How many European states have been kicking their american allies in the teeth for the last few decades? I love your posts, sleazy, but this is too much France attacked Greenpeace! Sinergy Sorry, missing what that has to do with Franco/US relationships, unless you are implying the french took out rainbow warrior at the behest of the US? I am sure there are any number of people (wyrdrich, rule, etc) who would be more than willing to state I have nothing to offer to the intellectual discussion here. In other words, my comment about France v. Greenpeace was tongue in cheek nonsense. Move along, nothing to see here. Sinergy

farglebargle -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:53:58 PM)
Love him or Hate him, that "Stench of Sulpher" bit at the UN was great!

Sinergy -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:56:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer I would concure that Chavez is not Fascist but rather closer to being a Communist. Since he is seeking to eliminate coorporate interests in favor of nationalism. The Fucking Horror! The leader of a country more concerned with the well being of the citizens of the country they were popularly elected to represent the interests of, as opposed to the interests of a faceless corporation in some place like Dumbfuckistan that wants to rape the country dry. Sinergy

WyrdRich -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 7:58:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy I am sure there are any number of people (wyrdrich, rule, etc) who would be more than willing to state I have nothing to offer to the intellectual discussion here. And AGAIN with the putting words in my mouth. And the French attacking Greenpeace thing... Was that the only fight they actually won during the 20th Century?

Archer -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 8:07:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer I would concure that Chavez is not Fascist but rather closer to being a Communist. Since he is seeking to eliminate coorporate interests in favor of nationalism. The Fucking Horror! The leader of a country more concerned with the well being of the citizens of the country they were popularly elected to represent the interests of, as opposed to the interests of a faceless corporation in some place like Dumbfuckistan that wants to rape the country dry. Sinergy Can you say projection????????? While I am a confirmed capitalist, I am not McCarthyistic (sp an is that even a word???) in my distain for communist ideals, I simply find them lacking. Communist was stated as a truthfull, almost self identifying by Chavez himself description. (Castro is the man's Hero/ Role model) It was not spoken as an insult or with any inclination to incite fear and loathing, really wish you'd keep the dogmatic projection out of it.

farglebargle -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 8:09:31 PM)
"Well, if we're so fucking advanced, what are we doing working here? " Randal Graves

meatcleaver -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 10:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Well... right now the enemies of the United States are 3rd world countries like Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Some could argue China is a biggie but that's not going to happen. Maybe a cold war type of thing 50 years from now. But I seriously doubt there will be any kind of shooting war. China is more like a rival than an enemy. Russia is neutral. All of Europe is allies. Most of South and Central America are allies. Australia, Canada, Japan, and India are allies. So who exactly is going to challange and defeat the United States? England has a long-standing history of getting into too many wars. Yet they haven't been invaded since the 11th century. Their presence on the world stange just goes up and down through the centuries. You're missing the point. While America sees enemies everywhere and fighting wars ain't cheap, even against 3rd world countries, i.e. Iraq, India and China are quietly rising. Hmm The US under Bush reminds me of the old USSR, the world is round so enemies are all around. 1900 Britain was the richest country in the world and Germany and was the new kid on the block like India and China now. There was no way Britain could lose its power, it wasn't just a matter of not fighting WWI which it didn't have to and looked after its economy and things might have been different. The problem was, the world changed and the world is changing now with China and India most probably becoming superpowers. It's not about the US being defeated but having to come to terms with a new reality because it weakened its economy on wars while other powers quietly built theirs. Empires never see the end until its upon them.

MasterKalif -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (1/31/2007 11:10:34 PM)
cyberdude has a point, but as juliaoceania pointed out "fascism" "populism" and "communism" have very old historical roots in south america....Chile had a Nazi party in 1932, which is significant...as it was before Hitler had absolute power in Germany....this is explained by strong historical ties of the Chilean army with the German military (dating back to the 1890s)...likewise, President Ibanez a semi-dictator (had fascist leanings)...in Peron's Argentina you have an absolute homegrown fascism that took power, and which even was a safehaven for nazis after WWII as well as Spanish fascists...close ties to Franco's Spain as well....same in Paraguay under Stroessner some fascist overtones (but more dictatorial in nature anyhow)...so fascism is very old and ties in with older paternalistic traditional dictatorships that preceded fascism in the region. Chavez is a clown, and while he is funny and I enjoy his anti-Bush and anti-american sentiments and have a big laugh, I don't think average middle class Venezuelans are laughing...because lets face it...with these type of disastrous regimes the poor have nothing to lose, they are already poor...at worst they stay the same...the middle class can lose much and become poor...the rich are always rich and can go to Miami or elsewhere and lose a bit, but not enough to make them poor. Chavez regime is what is known as old school socialist with communist overtones, but mostly a "populist" government...populism is what cheap governments do...promise the world, deliver little, steal much else....they are good at being inept and inefficient. Chavez is an admirer of Communist regime led by Fidel Castro, as well as the short lived regime of Salvador Allende in Chile, a populist demagogue and marxist (he declared this himself and won with only 36% of the vote), who in 3 years managed to destroy Chile's economy and bring chaos and disunity...Chavez can afford to do the same, because Venezuela is oil rich, and the state could finance a tv for every single Venezuelan if it wanted to. But mark my words, destroying checks and balances and giving him decree powers, only makes him a dictator, and now no one can counterbalance anything...he can do what he wants...and yes, the US won't be affected, but Venezuelans will...once the richest and most prosperous country in South America, now by far much impoverished compared to the 1970's. I say bring on a coup and get rid of him while Venezuela still can.

thompsonx -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 12:20:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Why does America always thinks it has rights to other peoples resources and that people should play the American way especially when the American way is forced on the people who object in the first place? I'm tired MC, and maybe even a bit grumpy, so I'll give the non-PC answer that is JMO. Because we can. Because we are a bunch of arrogant, self-righteous bastards. Because the system of government we created and the economic principles we embraced have made us the most powerful force on the planet. Because our economy is the world's economy, and oh yeah, we control the bread. The rest of you really don't want to see us get genuinely pissed off. It's a long way from perfect, it isn't fair or just, but there you go. WyrdRich: It is not often that a thug admits to his thugery. While we may not appreciate your position we do admire your candor. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 12:43:35 AM)
Cyberdude611: Chavez is not the only one who says the U.S. plans on attacking him. Shotgun Dick Cheny on Meet the Press w/ Tim Russert said we would take Venezuelan oil if Chavez refused to sell it to us. thompson

Vendaval -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 2:46:10 AM)
Well, to wade even deeper into the political debate on fascism, take a look on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism and Argentina's history and politics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina

Cunnilingussub -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 7:02:44 AM)
Before the USA = 100 000 (if that) death in Iraq/year After the USA = 500 000 (at least) death in Iraq /year Again job well done ,guys.

MasterKalif -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 7:08:49 AM)
going back on topic...rather than the "birth" of fascism, we are witnessing a return to dictatorial demagogues and socialist populism in South America, yet luckily not all countries follow that line; in fact, in many south american countries they dislike Chavez (and many that like him or admire his lunacy).

meatcleaver -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 7:25:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterKalif going back on topic...rather than the "birth" of fascism, we are witnessing a return to dictatorial demagogues and socialist populism in South America, yet luckily not all countries follow that line; in fact, in many south american countries they dislike Chavez (and many that like him or admire his lunacy). The problem with Chavez is that he doesn't seem to have a coherent policy. He appears to be all mouth and no trousers. It is one thing to nationalize the oil industry and why not, why should foreigners profiteer from a national resource at the expense of the Venezuelan people, I don't recall the US allowing a foreign country to exploit its natural resources. It is another to go out of his way antagonize and provoke a potential enemy like this US administration which has a short fuse and acts before it thinks. If I was Chavez I would get China and India on board, speak and act diplomatically and make Washington sound like bitter small minded bullies and warmongers. That's what they sound like in regard to Venezuela but Chavez is in danger of distracting the world from the US rhetoric.

leathersmith -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 7:29:21 AM)
oops wrong thread, Thought it was in South Carolina and as a Born Crackro-American was going to ask when it died?

sleazy -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 9:05:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver It is one thing to nationalize the oil industry and why not, why should foreigners profiteer from a national resource at the expense of the Venezuelan people, And just which Venezuelan people do you think are really going to profit? Willing to bet that below the most upper levels of society it will make no damn difference if the oil is exploited by the home nation, the US or even Norway. I know its a rhetorical question really

Real0ne -> RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America (2/1/2007 9:09:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve It is a BIG IDEA.... A New world Order. Another concept...borrowed by the Nazis. Then again....Prescott Bush helped FUND the nazis and IG Farben/Fritz Thyssen.. The first time the words: A New world Order were ever uttered on this planet was from none other than: ADOLF HITLER!!! oh yeh and dont forget: KNOW YOUR MASTERS THE ILLUMINATI OWN YOU! NWO:

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