quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
This and only this will prevent country's like Iran, China, N Korea from entering conflict with us. You want a political solution, then you have to be able to project force in a region, or else.
You appear to be saying that no one will listen to you unless you can whip their ass.

The bigger stick you carry the more people will listen, the more you show you are prepared to use that stick the more people will really listen. Just watch how a cop acts on the street, and how an arrogant criminal reacts.

Cop: Stand still
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
Cop (placing hand on weapon): Do not move
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
Cop (draws weapon): Stop there and lay down
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
Cop (Points weapon at crook): Do as I say or I will shoot
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
BANG!

Fact of life, some folks wont listen unless you hurt them enough.
This is a pretty poor analogy since cops have statutory authority over crooks.  What statutory authority does the U.S. have over another soverign nation?

quote:



After Viet Nam, this country appeared weak.. look at the Iranian taking of our embassy. The military was drawn down and under equiped, so we had little ability to defend our nation interests.
Would you please be so kind as to offer some sort of validation for this assinine statement.

How much did Reagan have to spend to get the military to a level that another nation was scared enough to go bankrupt?


I have no clue what you are talking about here.

quote:


 
 
 

After Somalia Osama has been quoted as saying we wouldnt take the losses to insure victory, thats what gives them hope. Make us bleed and we'll run they belive. This kind of thinking is what led them to attack us.
Well that seems to be the nature of bulllies.  Once you break their nose and show them that you are not their bitch they leave you alone.

Your comment here seems to validate giving out the bloody nose, in clear contradiction to your earlier listening and whipass statement

Actually it supports it.  when a bully seeks to intimidate someone he thinks he can overpower and is confronted with sufficient force he will back down.

quote:




Our own media " I'm not going to diverge into how left they are" helps them. They dont show how we help build schools, roads and wells. Its only negative aspects being shown.
There is this search engine called google (and if you think google is left wing there are numerous other search engines available to you)  if you were to avail yourself of it you could easily find out who owns the overwhelming majority of the media in this country.

Erm, the answer to that would be pretty irrelevant, as the corporations are not about spreading information, but making money, and bad news earns more, so makes more sense financially to lead on "4 troops killed by car bomb" than "hundreds of Iraqi children have better life thanks to medical care improvements"

First you state the the media is controlled by the left and when I suggest you find out who rally owns and controls the media you say it is not relevant.  Here in america that is called backpeddeling...what is it called over there?

quote:





We learned many lessons from these defeats. We fight at night now  like no other nation. We can bomb targets from thousands of miles away now, with amazing accuracy. But you still unfortunately have to put boots on the ground to control populations.  More unfortunate is that it only takes a few radicals/ terrorists to inflict harm on the rest of us.
That sounds like a lesson the english learned from the colonists a few hundred years ago.

Difference being that we were involved in several other "skirmishes" around the world at the time, if the Atlantic colonies had been the only issue at hand the ending would have been rather different.

That does seem to be the nature of bullies....thinking that they can bully the weak and when they get their hat handed to them they have all of these excuses like ....the sun was in my eye....you don't fight fair....I slipped ....and of course I was busy with more important things.

quote:



 


It took us many years after WWII to insure democracy's in Japan, Germany and others. They also were not tribal people like in the middle east.
Tribal????is that a pc word for "ignorant wogs"  How about we let them run their country and we can run ours.  Why is it our job to change the way they want to live?

Why is your job to let them die needlessly under the hands of a tyrant who wanted to harm Americans?

Really....just how did sodamned insane plan to harm americans?

quote:






Where democracy is a new idea. Education is the longterm answer, with more moderation. We should also not be opposd to splitting Iraq into 3 parts so the sunni's, shites. and kurds can separate.
Kinda like what we did in Korea and Viet Nam?

And just look at how well some of those countries are doing now that they have had the freedom to choose their own way.

Viet Nam seems to be doing pretty well...now that we are "buds" they have big macs and kfc

quote:



It is in the strategic national interests of this country to have at least 1 stable arab democracy in the middle east.
Why do you feel so?

Beacause not all of your fellow countrymen are self sufficient for oil, not all of your fellow countrymen would like to see Jerusalem and Tehran trade nukes.

You continually try to adumbrate my position instead of dealing with what I actually say.  Perhaps this speaks to the quality of your arguement and not the substance of my post.

quote:






It will not be easy, or the cost in live cheap.
But in the long run it will save lives.
I highlighted a section of your quote above because of the ridiculous nature in its posting, lets ask the Kurds if the found this to be true, Saddan gassed whole villages into extinction for opposing him. We also let them down after Gulf I  when we led them to believe that they would be supported in overthrowing Saddam.
How about you do some research to bring some numbers to the table. 

Yeah, numbers that were never ever published, I bet Hussein didnt keep a tally or publicise too much as its not the way dictators handle dissidence

There did not seem to be any shortage of numbers quoted by bush & co. when they started this fiasco.

quote:





We cant just walk away again. every time we do it costs us credibilty and livesndown the road.
The fact that we lie cheat and steal is what cost us credibility.

The fact that you are willing to stand and fight for what you believe in has gained it too, life is full of such compromises

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to when we have stood and fought for what we believed in, since the revolution, that has brought any credibility to my country.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I do appreciate the article...bu #'s alone don't always tell the story..for many the choice is a dead end life or career...doesn't have much to do with whether they support "what they are doing"...it's just a matter of waving a big enough "carrot" in front of them.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


Your attempt to adumbrate the position of those who are against the war in Iraq seem to be disingenious at best. Are you trying to say that no one except drug addicts and communist are against this fiasco? How peurile.

Oh for cripes sake! Lighten the fuck up and learn to take a joke, will ya?

quote:

Yes, but they forget the other 1/2 of the bargain. They will be sent to die, but THEY WILL NOT BE WASTED.

quote:

And since there is no way to "WIN" in Iraq, then it's pretty much the definition of Wasting Troops.

quote:

I'm surprised more people aren't refusing deployment.

quote:

It's not like any American would think less of them for not going.

quote:

After all, Bush's daughters aren't going, so it can't be all that important, can it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
This and only this will prevent country's like Iran, China, N Korea from entering conflict with us. You want a political solution, then you have to be able to project force in a region, or else.
You appear to be saying that no one will listen to you unless you can whip their ass.

The bigger stick you carry the more people will listen, the more you show you are prepared to use that stick the more people will really listen. Just watch how a cop acts on the street, and how an arrogant criminal reacts.

Cop: Stand still
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
Cop (placing hand on weapon): Do not move
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
Cop (draws weapon): Stop there and lay down
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
Cop (Points weapon at crook): Do as I say or I will shoot
Crook (making agressive move towards cop): F You
BANG!

Fact of life, some folks wont listen unless you hurt them enough.
This is a pretty poor analogy since cops have statutory authority over crooks.  What statutory authority does the U.S. have over another soverign nation?

quote:



After Viet Nam, this country appeared weak.. look at the Iranian taking of our embassy. The military was drawn down and under equiped, so we had little ability to defend our nation interests.
Would you please be so kind as to offer some sort of validation for this assinine statement.

How much did Reagan have to spend to get the military to a level that another nation was scared enough to go bankrupt?


I have no clue what you are talking about here.
So you are expert in US foriegn affairs in the far east for the 50s-early 70s and for the mid east in recent years, but haven't a clue about the situation in your own country in the 80s? You are kidding right?

quote:


 
 
 

After Somalia Osama has been quoted as saying we wouldnt take the losses to insure victory, thats what gives them hope. Make us bleed and we'll run they belive. This kind of thinking is what led them to attack us.
Well that seems to be the nature of bulllies.  Once you break their nose and show them that you are not their bitch they leave you alone.

Your comment here seems to validate giving out the bloody nose, in clear contradiction to your earlier listening and whipass statement

Actually it supports it.  when a bully seeks to intimidate someone he thinks he can overpower and is confronted with sufficient force he will back down.
So when a tinpot dictator figures it is OK to murder millions and attempt to destroy (at the very least seriously harm) a currency then should or you should not issue a bloody nose? Being the dictator type he wont listen therfore the only method of preventing such things is to get heavy.

quote:




Our own media " I'm not going to diverge into how left they are" helps them. They dont show how we help build schools, roads and wells. Its only negative aspects being shown.
There is this search engine called google (and if you think google is left wing there are numerous other search engines available to you)  if you were to avail yourself of it you could easily find out who owns the overwhelming majority of the media in this country.

Erm, the answer to that would be pretty irrelevant, as the corporations are not about spreading information, but making money, and bad news earns more, so makes more sense financially to lead on "4 troops killed by car bomb" than "hundreds of Iraqi children have better life thanks to medical care improvements"

First you state the the media is controlled by the left and when I suggest you find out who rally owns and controls the media you say it is not relevant.  Here in america that is called backpeddeling...what is it called over there?
I never claimed a leftist media, I was replying to your reply to someone else, apologies for not making that clear by having my post labelled as being posted by me and all quotes attributed to their respective authors, oops I did do that, guess someone is actually attacking without reading and being sure of their target!

quote:





We learned many lessons from these defeats. We fight at night now  like no other nation. We can bomb targets from thousands of miles away now, with amazing accuracy. But you still unfortunately have to put boots on the ground to control populations.  More unfortunate is that it only takes a few radicals/ terrorists to inflict harm on the rest of us.
That sounds like a lesson the english learned from the colonists a few hundred years ago.

Difference being that we were involved in several other "skirmishes" around the world at the time, if the Atlantic colonies had been the only issue at hand the ending would have been rather different.

That does seem to be the nature of bullies....thinking that they can bully the weak and when they get their hat handed to them they have all of these excuses like ....the sun was in my eye....you don't fight fair....I slipped ....and of course I was busy with more important things.
Verifiable fact, look at how big a nation britain is and how much of the world we were trying to keep under control  http://www.regiments.org/wars/wars.htm  lists the major ones. That of course does not list all the skirmishes and such that the many privately funded mercenary forces were involved in

quote:



 


It took us many years after WWII to insure democracy's in Japan, Germany and others. They also were not tribal people like in the middle east.
Tribal????is that a pc word for "ignorant wogs"  How about we let them run their country and we can run ours.  Why is it our job to change the way they want to live?

Why is your job to let them die needlessly under the hands of a tyrant who wanted to harm Americans?

Really....just how did sodamned insane plan to harm americans?
How is the dollar against the euro these days? Not too healthy is it, now imagine how much worse the dollar would be if one of the worlds biggest oil reserve nations traded their oil exclusively in €s. As a much bigger issue, how about the fact he was harming other human beings, or do only americans have any value?








e freedom to choose their own way.

Viet Nam seems to be doing pretty well...now that we are "buds" they have big macs and kfc
How well would they be doing if a fledgling "illegal" government had not been given some support?
]

It is in the strategic national interests of this country to have at least 1 stable arab democracy in the middle east.
Why do you feel so?

Beacause not all of your fellow countrymen are self sufficient for oil, not all of your fellow countrymen would like to see Jerusalem and Tehran trade nukes.

You continually try to adumbrate my position instead of dealing with what I actually say.  Perhaps this speaks to the quality of your arguement and not the substance of my post.
No that is not an attack on you at all, just that like it or not oil, the strength of the dollar on world markets and whether or not the middle east becomes the biggest glass ashtray ever are of importance to some people.

quote:






It will not be easy, or the cost in live cheap.
But in the long run it will save lives.
I highlighted a section of your quote above because of the ridiculous nature in its posting, lets ask the Kurds if the found this to be true, Saddan gassed whole villages into extinction for opposing him. We also let them down after Gulf I  when we led them to believe that they would be supported in overthrowing Saddam.
How about you do some research to bring some numbers to the table. 

Yeah, numbers that were never ever published, I bet Hussein didnt keep a tally or publicise too much as its not the way dictators handle dissidence

There did not seem to be any shortage of numbers quoted by bush & co. when they started this fiasco.
Well far be it from me to repeat common knowledge, why should I dig out figures you are obvioulsy aware of on your say so?

quote:





We cant just walk away again. every time we do it costs us credibilty and livesndown the road.
The fact that we lie cheat and steal is what cost us credibility.

The fact that you are willing to stand and fight for what you believe in has gained it too, life is full of such compromises

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to when we have stood and fought for what we believed in, since the revolution, that has brought any credibility to my country.
thompson
Oh its simple really, you have stood for what every nation and person ever stands for, your own self-interest, or of course you could have followed the UK's lead and just bend over and take it like a man no matter the effect on your country and citizens, I know what I admire more!

quote:

Not supporting their mission is the equivalent in not supporting them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That's who was joining OVER A YEAR ago. Anything current?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Not supporting their mission is the equivalent in not supporting them.

That is what the propagandists would have people believe. But no. You support the troops by bringing them home safely. Anyone who does NOT want them home safely today, is willing to let them die tomorrow, and those people are the ones who hate the troops. After all, they don't want them home safely, alive, today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That's who was joining OVER A YEAR ago. Anything current?

You know how beauracracy is... we won't see a report on 2006 til the end of 2007. The newest numbers out I provided in an earlier post it covers recruiting for Dec 2006. I am sure the Jan '07 numbers will be out in a week or so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Not supporting their mission is the equivalent in not supporting them.

That is what the propagandists would have people believe. But no. You support the troops by bringing them home safely. Anyone who does NOT want them home safely today, is willing to let them die tomorrow, and those people are the ones who hate the troops. After all, they don't want them home safely, alive, today.

Actually, I would love to have all of our troops home today, safe, well and alive. Alas they have a job to do,

quote:

ORIGINAL: fastcars1

Our troops are fighting terrorism and the extremist that carry it out. The same kind of terrorism that struck on 911. I would think that everyone would be for the troops and their mission.