RE: Death Penalty

RE: Death Penalty (Full Version)

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GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:01:42 AM)
You're taking "treating them like animals" the wrong way. We are fair to them. They are provided for. They get decent food, exercise, medical care, etc. I speak to them politely until they give me reason not to. However, I refuse to see them as the same class of creature as I am. To do so would endanger both myself and my fellow coworkers and this is a risk I cannot afford to take. I am not mean to them, but I am not their to be their friend and I honestly cannot understand why anyone would want to be friends with a criminal...but then again, both my parents were police officers, as are my neighbors and many of my friends. I was raised in the law enforcement community where there is a strong sentiment of "us vs. them." That's ingrained into me, for right or wrong. If you want to socialize with them, that's your right. I won't pretend to understand it or support it. "Mental issues" doesn't give you a right to act foolishly. I have mental issues too (including aspergers and depression) but it doesn't give me a right to use those things as a crutch for poor behavior. The only time it's right to point a gun at somebody is whne you are being threatened with harm (self defense). Other than that, it is wrong. Raping a woman is evil (true rape, not the fake consensual thing we kinky folks do.) It's just wrong. Mental or not, it's still evil. Evil wears many faces and "mental illness" is one of them.

OffTheBeatenTrak -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:08:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl I disagree. Do you work in a jail? I have done so for 4 years. Some of them are people...especially those there for petty crime and drugs. Many of them are NOT people. They ceased being anything remotely resembling human years ago. Until you have looked into their eyes, you have no right to comment. I know a man who beat his wife to death with a hammer in front of their 6yr old son. That man has nothing going on behind his eyes. He is not a "person." He is a primate lifeform but that's it. Spend 40hrs a week with murderers, rapists, and pedophiles and then give me your opinion on whether or not they are "people." I've seen enough a thousand times over to know differently. ETA: It's funny how people who've never been exposed think they know so much...a lot of these people in jail would just as soon slit your throat as to look at you and will give it about as much thought. A very close member of my imediate family spent time in armly for Causing death by reclass driving. And know his thourght and feeling about the acciedent. And i can tell you that he is every bit a human. Ever thourght of the possibilty that the look in there eye could have something to do with the fact they are locked up with often years or even no hope of release. I find the generalisations in your post disturbing, every situation is different. Granted in some cases this may be true, but in others this may not be the case. But you are seemingly stero typing them that way anyway. It's funny how people who are exposed think that they know everthing there is to know and ever one else knows nothing and shouldn't be allow to express there opinion.. Ask the criminals family as whether he/she is a person. I may have only seen one side of the coin but everone is entitled to there opinion.

missturbation -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:13:50 AM)
I am friends with 3 people currently serving time in 3 USA prisons. One is serving time for parole violations, one for armed robbery and one is serving life for murder. They are friends of mine and i dont expect you to understand or support my choices. "Mental issues" doesn't give you a right to act foolishly. I have to disagree, there are certain cases where people suffer from mental issues where they have had no idea they have even commited a crime. Whilst noone has a right to commit crime there can be valid reasons. Evil wears many faces and "mental illness" is one of them. Being mentally ill makes you evil? Are you qualified to make those assumptions?

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:14:53 AM)
I'm related to a criminal as well. He's serving time for 5 cases of aggravated sexual assult to a minor, and he is not a human being or a person to either me or his parents. We have all ended contact with him. I said several times that I am not speaking about all inmates...only a percentage of them. Stop reading what you want to read and read what I said. I said it numerous times in fact. I'm not stereotyping anybody. There are plenty of decent human beings in jail, as I've already said about a dozen times. Would I associate with those people in the free world? Nope. Decent human beings or not, they are still criminals and I have no interest in being around them. Your family member who spent time in jail for reckless driving was wrong for what he/she did. That's why he was found guilty. He should have acted like a responsible person, driven carefully, obeying all signs, speed limits, etc and he wouldn't be in jail, would he?

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:16:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I am friends with 3 people currently serving time in 3 USA prisons. One is serving time for parole violations, one for armed robbery and one is serving life for murder. They are friends of mine and i dont expect you to understand or support my choices. "Mental issues" doesn't give you a right to act foolishly. I have to disagree, there are certain cases where people suffer from mental issues where they have had no idea they have even commited a crime. Whilst noone has a right to commit crime there can be valid reasons. Evil wears many faces and "mental illness" is one of them. Being mentally ill makes you evil? Are you qualified to make those assumptions? Yes, I feel I am. I know a women who cut her babies arms off. She isn't a "criminal", she's "mentally ill" but what she did was still evil to me. I don't care about her reason. Evil makes people do crazy horrible things. Call it mentally ill or whatever else you want. The actions are still evil and that woman's kid is still dead. As for not knowing your committed a crime, well there's a pretty big difference between criminal tresspass and murder. We do see a lot of mental folks in the jail for tresspass and in their case, I agree that it's a case of them not being aware of what they are doing.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:24:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL MsT You know there can be no virtue without vice and vice versa and everybody is capable of both in the right / wrong circumstances. Who's been reading De Sade then ? On balance my sympathys go with GeekyGirl in this debate. Some of the things that some so called humans are capable of doing are simply disgusting. I do not believe it is true that all are capable of such things. Say sadistic murder. Serial sadistic killing . No, this is the provence of the depraved who should forfeit their right to life. Mental illness is just a cop out IMO. These people nearly always seem to have the low cunning required to try to evade capture. I dont doubt that there have been people so far removed from any sense of anything that they could be reasonably described as mentally deranged. But not many !!!

missturbation -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:26:15 AM)
Yes, I feel I am. Ok and your qualifications are???????? Psychologist? Psychiatrist? Which one because only those trained in the care of mental health to me are actually qualified to say how mental illness can affect a person and their actions.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:28:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Some of the things that some so called humans are capable of doing are simply disgusting. I do not believe it is true that all are capable of such things. Say sadistic murder. Serial sadistic killing . No, this is the provence of the depraved who should forfeit their right to life. Mental illness is just a cop out IMO. These people nearly always seem to have the low cunning required to try to evade capture. I dont doubt that there have been people so far removed from any sense of anything that they could be reasonably described as mentally deranged. But not many !!! Ditto. The thing is, it's easy for people to debate this who don't have a personal stake in the matter. It's not "real" for them. I see my fellow officers getting sent off by ambulance to the hospital for no further crime than being the wrong person on shift at the wrong time...I see these people every day and look into the face of evil (and for considerably less money than people make doing far less noble pursuits.) Yet I'm the 'bad guy' for calling it like I see it. The lady who cuts her kids arms off isn't the bad guy. She's mentally ill. The dude who beats his wife's head in with a hammer isn't a bad guy, He was mentally ill. Sure. Whatever. Easy to talk about when you don't LIVE it every day.

missturbation -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:28:53 AM)
Who's been reading De Sade then ? You know im a de Sade whore [;)] Mental illness is just a cop out IMO. I'm not saying it should be a cop out. Im saying they need different treatment to those who just are out and out evil and commit crimes.

missturbation -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:31:25 AM)
I see my fellow officers getting sent off by ambulance to the hospital for no further crime than being the wrong person on shift at the wrong time. Whilst this is horrible and noone should be injured whilst trying to do their job - YOU and THEY choose to do the job. You wouldnt catch me whinging because ive been assaulted by a drunk who has decided to hit me in the head with a bottle, thrown an ashtray at me, punched me etc. Its par for the course in the job i CHOOSE to do.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:31:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Yes, I feel I am. Ok and your qualifications are???????? Psychologist? Psychiatrist? Which one because only those trained in the care of mental health to me are actually qualified to say how mental illness can affect a person and their actions. This isn't about the science of mental illness..it's about my belief in the forces of evil which make people suffer from "mental illness". Yes they might be mentally ill...but what made them that way? Evil is my general answer. The sum force of negative energy that makes a person go crazy and do horrible things. I've seen it first hand. You can talk all you want about psychobabble but the point is this: "the dead folks is still dead and they ain't comin' back". Mental illness is just one form of evil...I know because I've suffered from mental illness myself and it has caused me to do things that looking back, I know were evil. I do not consider it an excuse for my behavior.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:33:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I see my fellow officers getting sent off by ambulance to the hospital for no further crime than being the wrong person on shift at the wrong time. Whilst this is horrible and noone should be injured whilst trying to do their job - YOU and THEY choose to do the job. You wouldnt catch me whinging because ive been assaulted by a drunk who has decided to hit me in the head with a bottle, thrown an ashtray at me, punched me etc. Its par for the course in the job i CHOOSE to do. I'm not whining about it. I chose my job, and I feel it's a noble occupation. But just as a soldier who goes off to war may be affected by the things he sees and does, so is a police or confinement officer. Look, I'm done with this argument. Be an inmate lover if you want to be. I'm not and never will be. I prefer to be friends with people on the correct side of the law. End of story.

popeye1250 -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:39:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl I actually love the job, crazy as that sounds! I work in the county jail and I think it's a very interesting gig :) The same does not hold true for being a prison guard though... I always like to make that clarification as I have done both. Prisons are corrupt, underpaid, and don't thoroughly screen the people they hire. The county on the other hand pays significantly better (I made $7/hr at the prison...make $18/hr at the jail.), it offers better benefits, an awesome retirement plan, puts people through an excrutiating hiring process, and is, for the most part, on the level. They also require state licensing through TCLEOSE which prisons do NOT require usually. All that said, being with them 8hrs a day isn't so bad. You get to see an awful lot of intereting/high profile stuff and it's really a fascinating job. Well that doesn't sound (too) bad. The County level must be better than the State level. But $7 for that kind of work isn't anywhere near enough . I was in the USCG and we did a lot of drug interdiction ops in the Carribean. We'd put prisoners on the fantail (back of the boat) under armed guard with leg irons as well as handcuffs on. Most of them were pretty compliant but there were a few who we knew would do anything to avoid a 20 year prison sentance. After we turned them over to U.S. Customs, Marshalls or sometimes smaller CG units near shore, we'd immediately get rid of any pillows bedding or blankets they used as well as eating utensils as many of them from Central and South American countries had T.B. and numerous other diseases! We'd simply throw it overboard in many cases or burn it in a 55 gallon drum with gasoline. Of course everyone was gloved up. Do they test for T.B. in your jail? Or other diseases? P.S. we'd also scrub down the fantail with disinfectant and then take a firehose to it for a half hour or so. Most times the longest we'd have prisoners aboard would be 3 days tops. We wanted to get rid of them quickly so we could go hunting again.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:44:45 AM)
TB tests every quarter. It's a HUGE problem. A lot of people don't realize what a big issue TB still is. That's the part of the job I like least...exposure to every kind of disease imaginable. Funny though...I worry more about lice than TB. I've got hair down to my waist and I get scared to death of lice outbreaks! Right now I'm nursing my way through a nasty strain of the flu...those people bring in every kind of bug/germ imaginable with them off the street. The one that shocked me was meeting a man with syphalis (sp?). I didn't even know it still existed.

SusanofO -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:50:02 AM)
Well I don't believe all mentaly ill people are insane, or criminal. If they were, they wouldn't separate the criminally insane folk from the "just mentally ill (or insane)" folk. I don't think someone who is criminal should be able to get off on an insanity defense - that's where terms like "criminally insane" came from, the idea that these folks are also criminals - because they commit criminal acts while insane. If it's "forces of evil" that causes all mental illness, then explain why it's curable sometimes with a prescription medication? But not all mentally ill people are criminals (IMO), simply because they may happen to also be insane. In fact, most mentally ill people are not criminals (or even insane), and there are stats to prove that. Please don't say things like this - you're setting the cause for equal medical treatment for the mentally ill back a hundred years when you do.

popeye1250 -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:54:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl TB tests every quarter. It's a HUGE problem. A lot of people don't realize what a big issue TB still is. That's the part of the job I like least...exposure to every kind of disease imaginable. Funny though...I worry more about lice than TB. I've got hair down to my waist and I get scared to death of lice outbreaks! Right now I'm nursing my way through a nasty strain of the flu...those people bring in every kind of bug/germ imaginable with them off the street. The one that shocked me was meeting a man with syphalis (sp?). I didn't even know it still existed. Yeah, lice would be pretty fuckin' ICKEY! If you get sick on the job like that and take time off does it come off of your sicktime? Yeah, we DID have Tuburulosis eradicated in this country at one time but with this out of control "immigration" from third world countries we're getting all kinds of third world diseases making a comeback especially T.B.! And little do people know that these people are also bringing in LEPROSEY! (SP?) If I'm in a store or anywhere in public I won't go near any suspected illegal aliens! They can kill you just by sneezing! Or six months later your fingers go numb and start falling off.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:57:44 AM)
I didn't mean to imply that all people who are mentally ill are "evil". I'm not talking about the majority of mentally ill people. I myself am mentally ill. I am talking about people who commit violent heinous acts under the guise of the term "insane." I'm saying that I believe there are evil forces which cause people to do evil things (ie the voices told me to). This is a personal spiritual belief of mine...I believe for example that schizophrenia is caused by a weakened aura which allows creatures of the astral realm to have increased contact with a human. Some of those astral entities are of an evil nature and persuade people to do evil things.

Wulfchyld -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:59:01 AM)
Geeky you are taking a clinical approach to inmates, which you should. I am sure they trained your opinion and rightfully so. Sometimes that training doesn't sink and guards help inmates smuggle drugs and other contraband, and in a few cases help them escape. I sincerely doubt you have set across the table from a serial killer, else you would understand that they are human. That is what makes them successful serial killers. If they all had shark eyes they wouldn't be serial killers. They would be murderers and thus, shark eyes or dead eyes, ending their career. You are taking the proper stance that your career and training has given you. I would not like to see this thread change your opinion; we need you to have a cold clinical approach to criminals. Yet the reality is that your clinical approach does not function for the rest of the world that is not a part of law enforcement. If the world shared your opinion we would not have this thread and it would not be debated both ways. There would just be a Huzzah around the lands as the cattle were executed. No one would be exonerated because everyone would be absolutely certain that our legal system is with out fault.

farglebargle -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 10:59:59 AM)
GeekyGirl, To paraphrase: Being Insane doesn't NECESSARILY mean you shouldn't be put down.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Death Penalty (2/21/2007 11:03:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl TB tests every quarter. It's a HUGE problem. A lot of people don't realize what a big issue TB still is. That's the part of the job I like least...exposure to every kind of disease imaginable. Funny though...I worry more about lice than TB. I've got hair down to my waist and I get scared to death of lice outbreaks! Right now I'm nursing my way through a nasty strain of the flu...those people bring in every kind of bug/germ imaginable with them off the street. The one that shocked me was meeting a man with syphalis (sp?). I didn't even know it still existed. Yeah, lice would be pretty fuckin' ICKEY! If you get sick on the job like that and take time off does it come off of your sicktime? Yeah, we DID have Tuburulosis eradicated in this country at one time but with this out of control "immigration" from third world countries we're getting all kinds of third world diseases making a comeback especially T.B.! And little do people know that these people are also bringing in LEPROSEY! (SP?) If I'm in a store or anywhere in public I won't go near any suspected illegal aliens! They can kill you just by sneezing! Or six months later your fingers go numb and start falling off. If you can prove you caught it work (tb or lice or whatever) I think that counts as worker's comp. I know that if you catch hiv or hepatitis off an inmate , it's workers comp so I assume the same holds true. However you do have to document your exposure very carefully to get them to uphold the claim. (In other words, if you get fluids on you, you have to report immediately for HIV testing so they can try to figure out whether or not you had it prior to your at-work exposure.) And you're right...the immigrants are bringing a LOT of crap in. I haven't seen leprosy first hand yet but I've heard about it coming back. Grosss! One more reason I don't associate with known criminals...who knows what kind of inmate funk they caught while in jail? They share combs and needles and cups and food and beds and showers with people who have all kinds of nasty diseases (not to mention having intercourse with those people!)

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