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ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

I didn't see anyone promoting the "one true way". Even police aren't wild about using cuffs on people. Injuries can occur. All that said, some folks have a real hot button about hand cuffs.

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Knowing what the risk potential is, and trying to minimize it, isn't really something negative.

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Hell, I remember one woman on IRC promoting how safety concious she was because she used two pair of handcuffs to suspend her sub so that if one pair broke, the other pair would provide a backup. I suppose I should have smiled and patted her on the head for being so wise and kind to share her insights into safe play???

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ORIGINAL: sfgrrl

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ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

I didn't see anyone promoting the "one true way". Even police aren't wild about using cuffs on people. Injuries can occur. All that said, some folks have a real hot button about hand cuffs.

Statements like "They are not safe for a person who is struggling, period." and "They look best hanging from a dom's belt and not on a sub's wrists - during play at least" smack of YKINOK.

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Knowing what the risk potential is, and trying to minimize it, isn't really something negative.

Minimizing potential risk isn't negative. Blanket condemnation is.

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Hell, I remember one woman on IRC promoting how safety concious she was because she used two pair of handcuffs to suspend her sub so that if one pair broke, the other pair would provide a backup. I suppose I should have smiled and patted her on the head for being so wise and kind to share her insights into safe play???

Are you truly that vacuous? I think even the most dim among us would say that suspension via handcuffs is something best left to the realm of fantasy.

~stef

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ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

Ok, I suppose the person replying could have said, "compared to a wide set of leather cuffs, steel cuffs are considerably more likely to do damage if pressure is applied, as in someone struggling or pulling on the cuffs".

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Quite honestly though, I wouldn't feel like I was stepping out on to thin ice to say that they are risky. I don't own a set. I'll use them if someone has a real desire to use them, but I'll make sure we talk about what I see the potential dangers as before we get going. If someone were twisting around too much for my taste in steel handcuffs, I'd stop the play myself.

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If you have read much of my posting, you would know I wouldn't come up with such a scheme for suspension. I launched on the woman like fireworks on the 4th of July. I suppose she could have called me the safety police too, since I wasn't particularly polite about it.

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I have no problem telling someone that they are not playing safe when I perceive they are not. It's not a YKINOK thing. It's a "you do know what could happen....?" thing.

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ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

I disagree about "it all boils down to what "safe" means to a particular individual". There is some room for disagreement as to what safe practices are, but there are things that everyone reasonable should agree to. Oxygen deprivation for extended periods of time? Handcuff suspension? Big wad o' cloth gag while unsupervised? I don't think anyone sensible is going to argue about any of that being safe. Yet, I hear people talking about these things like nothing is wrong.

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When something does go wrong though, generally the sub/bottom/maso is pointing their blue, numb little fingers at the dom/top/sadist who should have known better. And I can't say I completely disagree with that.

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The SSC creedo isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to the bdsm lifestyle. It surely beats the dangerous, insane, non-consensual theory.

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Bottom line, it's a big world out there. If someone disagrees with what you do, it's their opinion. A lot of times, it's worth at least considering, if for only to help understand what and how other people think. Maybe you get some info that makes you change your style, maybe you don't.

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ORIGINAL: sfgrrl

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ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

I disagree about "it all boils down to what "safe" means to a particular individual". There is some room for disagreement as to what safe practices are, but there are things that everyone reasonable should agree to. Oxygen deprivation for extended periods of time? Handcuff suspension? Big wad o' cloth gag while unsupervised? I don't think anyone sensible is going to argue about any of that being safe. Yet, I hear people talking about these things like nothing is wrong.

First we had 'safe' to deal with, now you want to throw 'reasonable' into the mix?

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When something does go wrong though, generally the sub/bottom/maso is pointing their blue, numb little fingers at the dom/top/sadist who should have known better. And I can't say I completely disagree with that.

Ah, the poor, defenseless sub/bottom/maso. Wait, I *am* the poor, defenseless sub/bottom/maso! Don't we share an equal responsibility for our own safety and well-being? If I lay there silently while my blue, numb little fingers turn more blue and numb, aren't I just as culpable or even more so than the dom/top/sadist for any injury that might occur?

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The SSC creedo isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to the bdsm lifestyle. It surely beats the dangerous, insane, non-consensual theory.

It's certainly not the best thing to happen to it either. All hyperbole aside, the number of people who tout the UIN "lifestyle" as anything other than a joke to tweak the sensibilities of the rabid SSC proponents, are practically nonexistant.

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Bottom line, it's a big world out there. If someone disagrees with what you do, it's their opinion. A lot of times, it's worth at least considering, if for only to help understand what and how other people think. Maybe you get some info that makes you change your style, maybe you don't.

All true. I'm just trying to point out there's a world of difference between understanding that some activities come with risk attached and initiating the "Chicken Little" alert system.