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RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 3:52:03 PM   
sjacket


Posts: 152
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Raised Methodist, thrown in with Seventh Day Adventists for a bit, and now completely free of all such distractions.  While it is sometimes hard to look at a sunset and not thank that higher Being that brought it to us, I also cannot overlook the things he/she allows us to do in her/his name. 

I don't find a particular spirituallity in BDSM, but have on 2 occasions gone into a post-beating subspace that was as close to rapturous as any experience I observed with the 7th Dayers. 

I base my life on the "do no harm" philosophy.  Do what you can to make life better. 

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 5:44:37 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ferryman777

Religon is a contrived belief system, engineered to contol the minds of a people to act according to the agendas of the ruling elite. That is all it is and ever was.
Christianity is contrived, created and based on pre-systems and brought to governmental agenda during the reign of Constatine. Begin your study there.

People have a need to believe in something more than this life; so 'religon's were created, patterns and rules to believe in and follow, dictated by a few self appointed authorities, for the purpose of controlling the masses.

It generates, a control system, whereby the person, themself controls their own actions, inside their own minds; instillation of guilt sensors if not obeying to the rules set forth; ensuring the obedience of the collective group conscience. The rules allow for the excuse of the abuse of power, and the contentment to live in the various degrees of poverty and exploitation by the promise of a better life in the thereafter. The religon provides a venue for the monatary explotation of the masses.

Consider this...when you question the validity of the Christain belief.....how it became so powerful, what black history does it emcompass? ....and just recently...the appointment of a nazi as pope; how real and truthful can it be.


ferryman,

I'm glad that you have such absolute certainity about life, religion and man's place in the universe.

Where do you preach?

FirmKY


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 5:50:05 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting interview with (name escapes me) the top geneticist in the United States in Discover Magazine a few months ago.

He is a devout Catholic.

He made the comment that he had difficulty understanding the conflict between Creationism and Science.

Simply pointed out that if God wanted to use evolution to bring about his goals, it seemed a bit arrogant of people to question His approach.

I can totally understand this. 

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 5:53:26 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent point, Sinergy.  I gotta agree.

FirmKY


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 5:59:02 PM   
bayboundse


Posts: 288
Joined: 10/29/2005
From: Oak Ridge, TN
Status: offline 		We are Christian. Being Christian does have some effects on us. All of it good. To us God is good.
Now organised religion may look down on us, in any of its many forms. But who cares all we care is about God and Jesus.

(in reply to bellanotte)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 6:03:02 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		There are dozens of online Bibles.  This site is good:

http://bible.cc/exodus/21-7.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Hell the Bible has passages about sexual slavery and allowing it.



really? would you know where? i dont even know if i have read a single passage in all my life, but i have heard theres some pretty crazy stuff in there and makes for a good read, even when youre not of faith.



It's Old Testment so if you use it Christians may counter that those rules were thrown out with the coming of Jesus. However, I believe it is Exodus 21, verse 7. I have a list of odd Bible things on my LJ but I don't have a full Bible here to check it (recently moved and my collection of Bibles are still at my folks' house where they are safer). That passage regards selling your daughter into slavery but somewhere there are rules about having a sex slave while married and so on. I'm sure you can find it on Google.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 6:20:47 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bayboundse

We are Christian. Being Christian does have some effects on us. All of it good. To us God is good.
Now organised religion may look down on us, in any of its many forms. But who cares all we care is about God and Jesus.



You make the comment that "All of it good."

Monkeyboy is Christian, and has stated he has done many of the things he does in the name of Christianity.

I would be curious to hear your proof that many of things he has done (bankrupt the country, invade Iraq, amass wealth and screw other people to protect one's ill gotten wealth, signed dozens of death warrants for convicted criminals, etc) were done in the name of Christianity, are "all good."  From what I have read about Christianity's beliefs, most (or all) of these activities are considered anathema to Jesus' message.

Sinergy 

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to bayboundse)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 8:03:08 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I have no problem seeing evolution as the process by which
a Higher Power brought the universe into being.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 8:06:05 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I have no problem seeing evolution as the process by which a Higher Power brought the universe into being.


For a long time, I didn't either. Lately, though, it's really struck me that evolution seems a very odd, random way to set about creating. Still pondering this one.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/12/2007 8:10:18 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I have no problem seeing evolution as the process by which a Higher Power brought the universe into being.


For a long time, I didn't either. Lately, though, it's really struck me that evolution seems a very odd, random way to set about creating. Still pondering this one.


A person goes out and plants a garden.

They put in rows of carrots, rows of peppers, rows of onions, rows of strawberries, whatever.

Time passes.  Things grow.

Did the person who planted the garden get plants growing the way they felt like growing in perfect harmony with his own vision?  Or did these plants grow according to the framework they had hardwired in them to grow.

Is the garden somehow wrong because 12 tomatoes grew on a plant rather than 10?

Why do you think God should explain the logic and reasoning behind the approach he uses to you?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 6:36:42 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Without the body there is no mind. I'm rather inclined towards the theory that it is the way our brain functions that give us the perception that our mind is separate from our body. Nothing else seems to make sense to me. If there is a divine omnipotent force that created the universe it isn't competent enough to work at Walmart never mind control the universe. If the universe created itself out of nothing, there is some poetry to it. Anyway we will never know so it isn't worth worrying about other than to ponder on the poetry of our existence.

BDSM gives me high and my mind needs my body for that so the spirituality part is pretty irrelevent.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 3/13/2007 6:37:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 9:20:26 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		I was raised Catholic. In my adult life I studied all religions for  about 15 years as I don't buy into if you're not Catholic, or even if you're not Christian you're doomed to hell.
My view is so very liberal in faith I can't find a Church that supports how I think it all fits together.
My faith affects every part of my life.
BDSM is no different.
I think 80% if not higher of theChristians in BDSM are ashamed of their urges and participation as they think it's sinning and seperating them from God.
I personally think anything in life that brings you peace, love, or joy God takes part in with you.
I think it's very possible to be heavily Christian and heavy into BDSM.
suzanne

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 9:51:18 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		i'm a Christian and sometimes attend services at a Baptist church.

when i was young especially at 13, those of us in the youth group were given the "talk" about sex and etc and forced to remember that sex before and outside the marriage, having a child out of wedlock (and if you were, you to stand in front of the church and confess before the entire congregation), and listening rock, hardcore rap, etc was a SIN.  that was drilled into our heads constantly with biblical scriptures too. Black Baptist (esp. C.O.G.I.C. - Church of God In Christ and Southern Conference) view BDSM as porn, being gay, lesbian, and/or transgender as a sin. even when i had my oldest UM and living with my ex before we were married, i was completely shunned by my own parents and relatives (i was allowed to visit but my ex wasn't welcomed) until we were "officially" married.

this is another reason i refuse to tell any of them about my personal life and Daddy has given me permission to remove my collar whenever i'm attending family functions.  my family is deeply rooted in their Christian faith and would view me as well as my D/s relationship as a sin. believe me - they would be quoting biblical scriptures to prove i'm living a sin and would need to be "right with God" by confessing my sins and then living the way a Christian woman should.


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 11:36:14 AM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Most everyone is born into a particular religion (except atheists), as you grow up and experience life and connect with it you develop your spiritual side.  Religion can give comfort, it can give solice, it can make one feel safe - there are many rules and obligations to be met in "religion"  i think we all have an inner voice that pulls us in a direction we are meant to follow - this is our spirituality..... it may not coincide iwth our religion or it may - Just because one is born a methodist doesn't mean when you are old enough to think for yourself you should stay a methodist - listen to that inner voice and have the courage to follow it.  i personally found my religious upbringing and experiences helpful in creating the person i am today and have no regrets - but as i grew and evolved in my thinking about the world and my place in it, and my connection to everything around me i pulled away from my birh religion and was drawn down a more spiritual path...... As for the connection to bdsm - there is a spiritual connection in it because i can't seperate that part of me from anything i do....

To address the statement bolded (bolding was mine)
That's not entirely true. I was brought up as a christian protestant and it wasn't until I was a teenager that I started to question religion in itself.  I'm an avid atheist and a big chunk of my nations population are too. Most of them were born and raised as christians, christened, confirmated and all that, but went on a similar route as me.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 12:52:05 PM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		yes they might not embrace it, but her point still holds: they were born into it.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 1:03:16 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

yes they might not embrace it, but her point still holds: they were born into it.


Which is why most people have the religion they do, indeed why they are religious at all. I can't work out why people hold their religion so dear when they must realise if they have half a brain cell that they've almost certainly been indoctrinated into it by their parents. It is why different religions belong to huge geographical blocks, people don't chose their religion, their religion chooses them. None of it has to do with spirituality and all has to do with brainwashing!

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/13/2007 1:12:35 PM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

yes they might not embrace it, but her point still holds: they were born into it.


you totally missed my point there...

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: religion, or lack there of? - 3/15/2007 2:00:14 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Most everyone is born into a particular religion (except atheists), as you grow up and experience life and connect with it you develop your spiritual side.  Religion can give comfort, it can give solice, it can make one feel safe - there are many rules and obligations to be met in "religion"  i think we all have an inner voice that pulls us in a direction we are meant to follow - this is our spirituality..... it may not coincide iwth our religion or it may - Just because one is born a methodist doesn't mean when you are old enough to think for yourself you should stay a methodist - listen to that inner voice and have the courage to follow it.  i personally found my religious upbringing and experiences helpful in creating the person i am today and have no regrets - but as i grew and evolved in my thinking about the world and my place in it, and my connection to everything around me i pulled away from my birh religion and was drawn down a more spiritual path...... As for the connection to bdsm - there is a spiritual connection in it because i can't seperate that part of me from anything i do....

To address the statement bolded (bolding was mine)
That's not entirely true. I was brought up as a christian protestant and it wasn't until I was a teenager that I started to question religion in itself.  I'm an avid atheist and a big chunk of my nations population are too. Most of them were born and raised as christians, christened, confirmated and all that, but went on a similar route as me.



"brought up" = born.  my point was just because we are born one religion doesn't make that religion the right one for us.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 58
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