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RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/3/2007 11:55:29 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

"BooHoo...big bad dom asked me to do something i didn't want to."

I just love seeing women that profess they wish to be submissive or learn to be submissive and then squick when it comes to doing something rather simple and harmless in a public meeting...so this is not directed at you personally.


Um....so let me get this straight here.  In order for a woman to qualify as a submissive, she has to submit to everyone including total strangers on a first meeting?  When she doesn't yet know that said stranger might not be a serial killer trolling for victims?  You really don't think it's smart to take some time to get to know a person before submitting to them? 

A submissive who asked me to exercise any kind of control or domination on a first meeting, especially something overtly sexual, would not get a good response from me either.  It would be obvious that he or she cared more about getting off on the fantasy than about getting to know me as a person.  If I was only looking for cheap instant kink thrills with any random stranger that would be fine, but if I was looking for a relationship that would be a huge red flag. 

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 2:03:00 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

"BooHoo...big bad dom asked me to do something i didn't want to."

I just love seeing women that profess they wish to be submissive or learn to be submissive and then squick when it comes to doing something rather simple and harmless in a public meeting...so this is not directed at you personally.


Um....so let me get this straight here.  In order for a woman to qualify as a submissive, she has to submit to everyone including total strangers on a first meeting? 

No...just the ones that she has made a previous agreement with to do something for or with.....


When she doesn't yet know that said stranger might not be a serial killer trolling for victims?  You really don't think it's smart to take some time to get to know a person before submitting to them? 

That is a given....I was under the impression this had gotten past the point of "gosh how are ya" and was getting to the nitty gritty...
 
 

A submissive who asked me to exercise any kind of control or domination on a first meeting, especially something overtly sexual, would not get a good response from me either. 


Reminds Me of the alt.sex.bondage newsgroup references ....this might come under the heading of  YKINOK or  YKIOK,IJNMK or YKINOK

It would be obvious that he or she cared more about getting off on the fantasy than about getting to know me as a person.

For some it never gets past knowing...the doing shows the balance of both....
 

If I was only looking for cheap instant kink thrills with any random stranger that would be fine,

That is easily obtained at any given moment...

but if I was looking for a relationship that would be a huge red flag. 

it would also be a red flag if something were agreed on then recended without notice
 


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©



(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 2:04:38 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nookie

Ultimately I've learned that not all Doms will appreciate me, nor will I appreciate them, and rather than try to fit the square block in the round hole, I simply move on.

It doesn't make either of us right or wrong. It makes us different, with different expectations.


Wonder if it has anything to do with your screen name?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


(in reply to nookie)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 2:22:00 AM   
justplainjava


Posts: 173
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline
Greetings to my sisters:
many years ago my now ex master require me to be braless, to the point when he would catch me wearing one he would have take it off and cut it up now i have no undergarments i wear mostly halter tops under my blouses, even today for reason i am not sure of, but probley mostly out of respect for him for even though i no longer sever him i still care for him
take care and be safe
java

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 8:40:55 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69
No...just the ones that she has made a previous agreement with to do something for or with.....


There seems to be some confusion as to what she had or hadn't agreed to.  I didn't read her account as saying that she had agreed to anything.  It seemed that he asked and she demurred, but in a polite enough way that he didn't quite get the fact that she was really uncomfortable and really did not consent to doing something that sexual for a stranger on a first meeting. 

quote:

That is a given....I was under the impression this had gotten past the point of "gosh how are ya" and was getting to the nitty gritty...


I didn't get that impression, but that may be because I often meet people to socialize over a cup of coffee after just a couple of casual emails. Naughtiness is not on the agenda, just coffee and conversation.  Wilmington is a fairly progressive city, but nude bondage and spankings in the Port City Java coffee booths would probably not go over well.  Now if the coffee and conversation goes well and the person in question doesn't immediately do something horribly rude and clueless (like asking for kinky stuff on a first meeting!) things may proceed from there.  Or not, if the person I'm meeting shows that he's paying more attention to the immediate gratification of his hard dick than to actually getting to know a potential play partner as a person first.  Patience and self control is a treasured grace, and it's something a lot of women value in a partner whether he is dominant or submssive.

I'm not saying that everyone manages their initial lifestyle contacts this way, or that they should.  But a lot of women do.  Eg, they prefer to talk like normal people awhile before jumping right into kinky sex play with someone they don't know and have never met.  It's not a terribly unreasonable approach, though of course anyone who is not comfortable with it is free not to meet people who prefer to operate this way.   I think their lack of patience means that they'd be losing out on meeting some quality people though. 


quote:

Reminds Me of the alt.sex.bondage newsgroup references ....this might come under the heading of  YKINOK or  YKIOK,IJNMK or YKINOK


I'd say more like YMMV.  What was your ASB handle?

Yes, it certainly could fall under that heading.  Some people are comfortable with insta-kink with strangers, others are not.  But when someone who is comfortable with it pushes someone who isn't to do stuff they don't consent to doing, this is generally the result. 


quote:

it would also be a red flag if something were agreed on then recended without notice


Oh, I agree, but I don't think she ever said yes to his initial demands.  She said that she was really not comfortable with them on a first meeting, and he chose to interpret that as consent.    That raises red flags all right, but of the "clueless delusional wannabe Dom" variety.

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 9:24:19 AM   
SirMasterD


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/1/2005
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Let Me say this I am a Dom and I feel he had no right telling you to do anything on a frist meeting a frist meeting should be used to get to know you and you him not telling you what to do

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Doms requiring us to be bra less - 4/4/2007 9:43:23 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
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ON our first meeting a sub will be without panties and a bra.DIANE will take her to the rest room and check her out and often returns with pins on nipples and clits..THE only way ours are allow to wear under garments if they are professional employed and then exceptions are made..bounty

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(in reply to SirMasterD)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 10:00:36 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: patina
He told me no underwear at all no panties no bra well i wore them, I am very amply endowed my cup size is above the letter D about 3 times,  oh hell i am a 46G  you don't go braless in public that size. 

This Dom hit the ceiling when he found out i had disobeyed him i told him he was not my Master yet i did not have to do as he ordered and i am to big to go braless in public.  We argued for a bit it ended with him stating the point is you were to show you could follow orders.  I said well i felt i had good reason not to.  He looked at me and said humm this is not good.   I just shrugged and looked away. 


Bolded and italized for emphasize by Me.

So was there an agreement or not?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 10:12:57 AM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
*Raises Hand*

I have a question, and please forgive me if it has been asked. This thread is VERY long and I skimmed through most but not all of the pages.

Can not wearing a bra be hurtful to a girls breasts? Something about not having support? Or was this something my Mom told me to make sure I went out of the house in one?

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 10:17:29 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark
Can not wearing a bra be hurtful to a girls breasts? Something about not having support? Or was this something my Mom told me to make sure I went out of the house in one?

Depends on the person.  It's not a bother to me unless I'm doing physical work.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to drawntothedark)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 10:23:50 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

*Raises Hand*

I have a question, and please forgive me if it has been asked. This thread is VERY long and I skimmed through most but not all of the pages.

Can not wearing a bra be hurtful to a girls breasts? Something about not having support? Or was this something my Mom told me to make sure I went out of the house in one?

We are talking a meeting / encounter...not something that leads to a sagging posture over time.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©



< Message edited by SirDiscipliner69 -- 4/4/2007 11:03:42 AM >

(in reply to drawntothedark)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 10:27:18 AM   
pwettyprincess


Posts: 9
Joined: 3/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: pwettyprincess

i can understand he wanted to test your obedience
So, how can someone that you haven't agreed to submit to test your obediance?

That's the whole point here. If the only thing you've agreed to is to meet face to face, then disobedience doesn't even come into the equation because it hasn't been agreed on.

Personally, I wouldn't have shown submission to just every ole wanker that came along, which is what is being suggested. He says he's a Dom, but do you really know that until you've met him?

There was a guy here in SoCal. Would meet women online and tell them that to meet him they had to have bangs as part of their hairstyles. If they didn't have bangs, they had to go get them cut in. At least 8 women did this to show their submission. How do I know this? Because those were the 8 women that he beat and raped on the first meeting.

Submissive women were an easy target for him, especially those that submitted without qualification. And chances are, those women would be so weak willed that they wouldn't report him either.

Now, keep in mind that those women met him at coffee shops and similar places. They had safe calls in place. The only mistake they made was allowing him to walk them to their car.

By the way, he was out on parole when he comitted those 8 rapes in 10 months, his third strike even. And he was right, the women involved didn't want to report their rapes. One of the women required over 50 stitches from where he stuck his hand up inside her with a ring on. It tooks us months to convince her to go to the police. It took 10 months for someone to report him for rape, all because he chose his victim profile carefully.

Does this happen all the time? No. Matter of fact, it happens rarely. Does it matter if it happens rarely, if it happens to you?

By the way, ask those of us involved in the LA scene how thrilled we were to have the LAPD in our chat room and attending our socials. Having the name of our chatroom and the locations of our socials plastered into an article in the LA Times. It was detrimental to the entire community to have that kind of exposure.

If you do something to show submission and then reject that person, don't you think sooner or later you're going to get someone who doesn't quite understand? It may not be rape, but there are certainly a good number of stalkers Real time and cyber) in the community. People that are on the fringes of what we do simply because it feeds their ego or because submissive women are an easy mark. (especially novices) Men who think they're entitled to a symbol of submission simply because they've labeled themselves as Dominant, tend not to take "No" for an answer well.

I think it's foolish to be anything other than equals for that first meeting.





we were equals and he still despite our ''D/s r/ship'' considers we are, it wasnt a matter of testing or obeying him or insisting that every sub should automatically submit to him,( in fact he is the very opposite, should any sub call him Sir etc he always politely asks they dont because he is not their Dom.)

its a preference he has and he requested thats all it would not have made any difference had i worn a bra or a thermal vest lol
like most Dom/mes he likes to a degree things to be HIS way but not in an obnoxious or insistent way and is fully aware that he doesnt have that right!
and i am by nature a pleaser and wanted to do something i knew he would like that was difficult for me (weird i know lol) but that made both him and myself happy,he was also very concerned and did everything both before and when we met to ensure i was comfortable and felt as safe as possible. (still does)

i am not naive enough to jump blindly into anything, it was a first meet and i didnt particularly expect anything to come of it im extremely cautious anyway and experienced enough to know that 90/% of those calling themselves Dom/mes are very often overbearing egotistical fakes who believe the title is an easy way of getting laid!
i was also aware that like many others he had met a few who claimed they were this that or the other but when it came to it were just out for a quick thrill.

i dont think a ''test'' is such a bad thing,in fact it can be telling and helpful for both Dom/me and sub to test the waters a little, the bad thing would be if the sub refused and the Dom/me persists or kicks off!

it was my way of saying im genuine and wanted to make an effort.and 3 yrs on were both together 24/7 and very happy..i guess we both did something right that first night :)

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 11:00:44 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

*Raises Hand*

I have a question, and please forgive me if it has been asked. This thread is VERY long and I skimmed through most but not all of the pages.

Can not wearing a bra be hurtful to a girls breasts? Something about not having support? Or was this something my Mom told me to make sure I went out of the house in one?

I rarely wear a bra as I use them for special occasions and I am a larger cup size.  I have never heard them being harmful to not wear, I think it depends on the individual.  Wearing an illfitting bra can be worse - resulting in back or neck problems etc.
On page 3 beth of Mercandbeth made an interesting post - I am leaving the link here for you to look at.  I found what she said interesting.
 
 
I think it just depends on comfort, how you like your breasts to look etc.  I wouldnt work out without some sort of support, but general day to day... I just wear a vest top.


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to drawntothedark)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 11:10:19 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69
So was there an agreement or not?


I can't tell.  It looks like he made demands which she wasn't comfortable with.  It also looks like they had not established any kind of D/s relationship at that point, so she was no more constrained to obey his demands than she would be with any stranger. 

If the while point of meeting is to determine on both sides whether there's enough mutual interest and chemistry for there to be a D/s relationship, consent isn't an automatic given.  And without consent, there is no D/s relationship, and expectations of obedience based on a D/s relationship are a bit unrealistic to say the least.

If she said that she did consent and then didn't follow through, that wasn't a good thing, and she needs to work on her communication skills.  If she demurred and stated that she was not comfortable with that on a first meeting, and he was deluded enough to believe that she was going to do it anyway since he was a dom and she was a sub, then he needs to work on his reality check skills. 

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 11:28:54 AM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

*Raises Hand*

I have a question, and please forgive me if it has been asked. This thread is VERY long and I skimmed through most but not all of the pages.

Can not wearing a bra be hurtful to a girls breasts? Something about not having support? Or was this something my Mom told me to make sure I went out of the house in one?

I rarely wear a bra as I use them for special occasions and I am a larger cup size.  I have never heard them being harmful to not wear, I think it depends on the individual.  Wearing an illfitting bra can be worse - resulting in back or neck problems etc.
On page 3 beth of Mercandbeth made an interesting post - I am leaving the link here for you to look at.  I found what she said interesting.
 
 
I think it just depends on comfort, how you like your breasts to look etc.  I wouldnt work out without some sort of support, but general day to day... I just wear a vest top.



:)

Thanks for the link. And thanks to everyone else who chimed in on my question. I actually prefer to not wear one but DO wear one in fear of hurting tissue. Thanks for putting those fears to rest!

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/4/2007 1:54:51 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

This Dom hit the ceiling when he found out i had disobeyed him i told him he was not my Master yet i did not have to do as he ordered and i am to big to go braless in public. 


Bolded and italized for emphasize by Me.

So was there an agreement or not?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©




As is obvious from the sentence above, she had not agreed to submit to him.

She told him flatly that he was not her master. Now he may have imagine that he has the right to demand submission in order to see if she was someone he would want as a sub, but she has just as much right to refuse to submit until she sees whether or not he is someone she wants to submit to.

The only agreement here was in his mind.

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/5/2007 5:54:16 PM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

This Dom hit the ceiling when he found out i had disobeyed him i told him he was not my Master yet i did not have to do as he ordered and i am to big to go braless in public. 


Bolded and italized for emphasize by Me.

So was there an agreement or not?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©




As is obvious from the sentence above, she had not agreed to submit to him.

Actually when she met him she told him that...AFTER the agreement was made...not so obvious....

She told him flatly that he was not her master. Now he may have imagine that he has the right to demand submission in order to see if she was someone he would want as a sub, but she has just as much right to refuse to submit until she sees whether or not he is someone she wants to submit to.

Yes but she should have COMMUNICATED that before the meeting arrangements were made..

The only agreement here was in his mind.

It seems hot chat got the better of her and after she realized what she had agreed to she recended.


So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

 



(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/5/2007 5:55:57 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
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From: Under a bridge
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~Quicky~

After 9 pages if I don't see some boobies I am blocking the lot of you!

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(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/5/2007 5:59:44 PM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69
So was there an agreement or not?


I can't tell.  It looks like he made demands which she wasn't comfortable with. 

Then she should not of made promises she scould not keep.
 

It also looks like they had not established any kind of D/s relationship at that point, so she was no more constrained to obey his demands than she would be with any stranger. 

The constraints of the communications developed an agreed heirachy...the choice was later made to do other than what was agreed on.
An exchange of verbal submission had already been determined.


If the while point of meeting is to determine on both sides whether there's enough mutual interest and chemistry for there to be a D/s relationship, consent isn't an automatic given.  And without consent, there is no D/s relationship, and expectations of obedience based on a D/s relationship are a bit unrealistic to say the least.

Consent was determined by suggested attire restrictions which WAS agreed on before hand and then gone back on.


If she said that she did consent and then didn't follow through, that wasn't a good thing,


BINGO! We have a winner here!

and she needs to work on her communication skills. 

BINGO! Two for one tonight!~

If she demurred and stated that she was not comfortable with that on a first meeting, and he was deluded enough to believe that she was going to do it anyway since he was a dom and she was a sub, then he needs to work on his reality check skills. 

Re read her statement and you will see that she did it AFTER the fact..
 
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

 



(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 4/5/2007 6:06:43 PM   
Sweetbluerose


Posts: 54
Joined: 9/24/2005
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ah to be perky sigh of pure envy

(in reply to krikket)
Profile   Post #: 180
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