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Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:31:47 PM

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I have just read several threads that have made me want to ask this question.
Are many submissives really bottoms? I don't see anything wrong with being
a bottom, yet so few online claim that title.
I would like to hear some comments on what people here feel are the differences
between being a submissive and a bottom.
Thanks in advance.

< Message edited by VeryMercurial -- 3/19/2007 6:32:11 PM >

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:33:13 PM

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To me a "bottom" wants only sex play. They don't want their partner to have any dominance outside the bedroom.

For me, I want dominance both sexually and relationship wise.

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:34:36 PM

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Probably about the same amount as Dommes who are really Tops.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:37:53 PM

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I disagree GeekyGirl, most bottoms want to call the shots.
Many do not seek only sex, many seek to control what is done to them.
""Pseudo-submissive PLAY slave
Likes to play at being slave. Likes to *feel* subservient; may in some cases like to *feel* that one is being "used" to gratify one's partner's sadism; and may even really serve the dominant in some ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the scene to a large degree; often fetishistic (e.g. foot worshippers
play slave/play submissive=bottom to me.

< Message edited by VeryMercurial -- 3/19/2007 6:40:16 PM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:46:42 PM

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I think of a bottom as a scene or play scenario only. I think of a person that claims the title of bottom as someone that wants to be in the bottom position in a BDSM sense. They are assuming a role for play. It has nothing to do with power exchange.

I think of someone that wants D/s only in the bedroom as a bedroom submissive. I think that bottom and bedroom submissive as two different things in my mind because I have a friend that is a bedroom submissive. She is a bedroom submissive at this point because although she has submissive tendencies all the time, she does not allow herself to take it out of the bedroom at this point in her life. She is a submissive, but only a bedroom submissive at this time. One cannot change their nature even though they are not acting upon it.

I think a dom can be a bottom at times. It does not make them less dominant to bottom. I think submissives can top, this does not make them dominant. I think that many people confuse a temporary role with who they are intrinsically.

I think this is why people need to define for themselves what these things mean to them and discuss it between themselves. For example, one may think that anyone that does not desire to have 24-7 D/s dynamic is not a submissive. I think that they are submissive if they are yielding sexual control to their partner all the time. This is the area they have submitted in and no other. If we start qualifying submission based upon where one draws the line of control then I guess most are not submissive, because most submissives have something they control about their lives that they do not allow the dom to control... such as finances, UMs, or career path.

The key to me is yielding power, control, or authority in some aspect of one's life to another.. that is what separates a submissive from someone that enjoys bottoming. I would see calling a person a bottom the same as calling them a blow job or bondage... it is an action, not an identity in my mind.. although I am sure some see it as who they are, I would think most don't see it as an instrinsic part of themselves the way they do being a submissive.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:50:38 PM

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I think it's more the other way around, or upside-down, or something.

My perception from reading the boards is that quite often you will see submissives or slaves who don't engage in painplay at all. They aren't bottoms at all.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 6:52:11 PM

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So are you saying most of the Dominants here are actually Tops?

(in reply to mstrjx)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:02:06 PM

mythi

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"Bottoms" often strike me as being masochistic Dom/mes. *eg*

Tho' I believe a more acceptable description would be someone who's only, or at least primarily interested in receiving physical sensations....having things "done to them". Whereas a submissive focuses more on what they can do for another. Which still might include having things done to them, but not necessarily. Hence some of the crossover in terminology and confusion.

Think about the diference between a masochist who thrives in a dynamic where they suffer for another's pleasure (masochistic sub) -vs- the masochist who'd rather just pay a pro' for a quick endorphin fix and couldn't care less what if anything the other person gets out of it (masochistic bottom).

Of course you could reverse all that to differentiate between a Dom who has sadistic tendencies and Top who just wants to whup ya and send you on your way. And easy enough to substitute pleasure or any other other sensation/feeling/emotion instead of pain too.

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:04:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

So are you saying most of the Dominants here are actually Tops?

I wouldn't know. I embrace all facets of BDSM. You want the relationship dynamic, I'm in.

You wanna play, even better.

Bondage? Restraints? Naturally.

However, if you look at the breadth and depth of CM, you might find that many Doms are just looking for kinky sex and don't have a clue. But they get theirs, so who am I to complain.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:08:23 PM

mythi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

I think it's more the other way around, or upside-down, or something.

My perception from reading the boards is that quite often you will see submissives or slaves who don't engage in painplay at all. They aren't bottoms at all.

Jeff

That's because the ones who do are too sore to sit at their computers and post.

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to mstrjx)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:09:32 PM

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From: Anchorage Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

I have just read several threads that have made me want to ask this question.
Are many submissives really bottoms? I don't see anything wrong with being
a bottom, yet so few online claim that title.
I would like to hear some comments on what people here feel are the differences
between being a submissive and a bottom.
Thanks in advance.

hello

for myself, a bottom is someone who only submits during a specified time of 'play'. Submissive however, is a personality trait, something that someone has all the time. Of course, this is just how I view things; others will of course think differently.

melissa

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:15:57 PM

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lol good one

(in reply to mythi)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:23:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

I have just read several threads that have made me want to ask this question.
Are many submissives really bottoms? I don't see anything wrong with being
a bottom, yet so few online claim that title.
I would like to hear some comments on what people here feel are the differences
between being a submissive and a bottom.
Thanks in advance.

My opinion, for whatever it is worth, is that a person who labels themself as a bottom does not desire a power exchange. However, I also feel that it's possible for a d/s couple to simply have no interest in controlling much outside of the bedroom. I don't think this automatically means that they are top/bottom as opposed to dominant/submissive.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 7:48:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial
So are you saying most of the Dominants here are actually Tops?

I think a great many of them are.

As much as people will deny it, most people DO think a bottom is LESS THAN a sub who is LESS THAN a slave.

This is highly amusing considering a person can be ALL THREE depending on what relationship they are in. A slave can be ordered to bottom for a demo or to be loaned out and submit- and that's just the fuzziest way of putting it.

People spend way too much effort trying to make boxes and shove people into them. If we spent half as much time deciding what to call other people as we do on actually looking into ourselves, we'd all be much happier.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 8:02:20 PM

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I totally agree Lucky, I don't see a bottom as less at all.
In fact I can respect a person that is a bottom and knows it.
A lot of the confusion around here is that people call themselves, "submissives",
"slaves", "Dominants", etc. when in reality most are "Tops" and "bottoms".

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 8:10:48 PM

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quote:

A lot of the confusion around here is that people call themselves, "submissives",
"slaves", "Dominants", etc. when in reality most are "Tops" and "bottoms".

and what's wrong with them calling themselves that? If it makes them happy, and makes their partner happy.. I see no confusion what-so-ever.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 8:13:22 PM

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Most of the endless problems and complaints come from people NOT knowing
what they are, which leads to relationship problems.
If you don't know what you are, and the person you are dealing with does not know
what they are, I can see why so many have the problems they do.

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 8:16:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

Most of the endless problems and complaints come from people NOT knowing
what they are, which leads to relationship problems.
If you don't know what you are, and the person you are dealing with does not know
what they are, I can see why so many have the problems they do.

ahh, see, I look at it differently. I think most know exactly what they are; but they try to be something else. It does not cause confusion, but it sure can cause pain for all involved.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 8:31:34 PM

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Nice post Lucky. I totally agree that we try to make all those boxes. My personal take on this that most drift with a range of state over time depending on the physical, mental and emotial state the person is in. Personally I range in the Dom spectre.
I also believe it can be due to who we as Doms want our subs/slaves. Personally the true kick I get is to see a sub/slave come to me with low selfesteem and bring her to a very high selfesteem -so in fact many would claim she's not a submissive. However I find that during this transisions the sub becomes only more submissive to me.

But another thing I see - and I guess - this is part what is being referred to in this thread as well is that a lot of subs are really into me me me me me... and very less into what can I do for you. So are they really submissives or are they bottoms? and even "just" sexual bottoms. From my personal experience talking with subs/slaves 90% starts with the me me me me me approach - so IF I were to build a box here it would definately be the bottom box and not the submissive one. But buttoms can be as fun as a real submissive/slave - just a different energy - they just need to be clear about it themselves - and that can be a Dom's job to help them get clarity.

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Are many submissives really bottoms? - 3/19/2007 8:35:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

Most of the endless problems and complaints come from people NOT knowing
what they are, which leads to relationship problems.
If you don't know what you are, and the person you are dealing with does not know
what they are, I can see why so many have the problems they do.

I honestly don't see how what they call each other is any of your business, or anyone's other then theirs. Valyraen and I consider me his kitten, his lover, his girlfriend, his friend, his submissive and possibly one day his wife. What does it matter what we call each other most frequently as long as we are both happy?

Edited because it sent too early: I guess I just don't get the hang-up on labels. A person who feels like they are a slave to one might be kitten to another or submissive to another. I feel like one should choose the "title" they are most at home in for their particular relationship.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 3/19/2007 8:37:09 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

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