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RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 6:49:19 AM

BeatMeDaily

Posts: 99
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

I know what you fucking said, me being an idiot is meaning that you think you can make certian personel comments and then deny them by using my alcaholic intake as your simple excuse for not taking responsibility, reading between the lines is such an uncanny ability isent it?

Look at the posts made by the other people on this thread, now look at yours, you really have any wonder why I just magically decided to focus on you?

Psst...and what exactly do you think "choose" means? Dunno where me and them just being there came from.

why are you being so rude to Her ? I see nothing SweetDommes said that should enrage you like this.

(in reply to Rumtiger)

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Post #: 21

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 6:51:03 AM

BeatMeDaily

Posts: 99
Joined: 1/7/2007
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my last comment on this:
Seek professional help quickly.

"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning"

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Post #: 22

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 6:51:09 AM

KaramelGoddess

Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
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Good choice SweetDommes...you can not reason with someone who is intoxicated.

However I see where the conundrum lies. And you are right, both sides - Dominant and submissive, give up something when power is exchanged. It is a reciprocal thing. And I thank the Goddess for it, because it has enhanced My life.

Have a great Saturday everyone.

With kind regard,
~Kara

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

(in reply to SweetDommes)

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Post #: 23

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 6:52:41 AM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

You made suggestions, I took those, even offered a follow up comment that was neitehr argumentative or hostile, you then made personal comments which had no relation to the original question or to what I felt. Even now you purposefully are twisting around what was origionally said in order to try to leave me looking as the "bad guy", even after I post this I have a good guess you will try making some kind of parthian shot, in order to try to convince yourself that your perfectly right.

Now, how bout, since you dont give a shit, you fuck off with your little comments, and your little ideas about what I can or cannot comprehend or what really happens in my life. And seeing as you came into the thread its you talking to me genius, if you couldent see where this was headed a couple posts ago you should have quit.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to SweetDommes)

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Post #: 24

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 6:58:17 AM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeatMeDaily
why are you being so rude to Her ? I see nothing SweetDommes said that should enrage you like this.

I see accusations of calling me lazy, and I see one blatent comment about how when I talk about an incident that happened she puts out the comment she would ignore me for that...a bit out of left field dont you think? Follow that up with her personel feelings of how I was being in her eyes in said incident and we got a whole thing that is shooting rather far off from what i was aksing before.

Accusing me of not caring for whomever i'm with would pretty much set anyone off as well.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to BeatMeDaily)

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Post #: 25

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:06:26 AM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

Good choice SweetDommes...you can not reason with someone who is intoxicated.

Im right here you know?

quote:

However I see where the conundrum lies. And you are right, both sides - Dominant and submissive, give up something when power is exchanged. It is a reciprocal thing. And I thank the Goddess for it, because it has enhanced My life.

Have a great Saturday everyone.

With kind regard,
~Kara

my conundrum is whether I can still consider myself a sub or not with this little revelation of mine, thats whats messing with me.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to KaramelGoddess)

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Post #: 26

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:09:06 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

Yes, you choose who you submit to, but that person has the same right to reject your submission that you have to reject their dominance - so in the end, she has the exact same amount of power that you do.

My thoughts exactly.

Is Fox a slave? No, he is not a slave because he would not serve anyone.

Is he my slave? Yes, he is, fully and deeply. It doesn't make my ownership of him any less in fact I feel it makes it more valuable because I must be special or important to own someone so picky (*wink*).

The place where a power imbalance might tilt in favor of one person can depend on finances or love or the motivations that drive decisions. I think Fox might be a bit more "in love" with me than I with him; we (the husband & I) are more financially stable than him. That all tips things in my favor.

Now if I made decisions based primarily on what will please Fox or what will keep him here, then I'd say the power would be tipping in his direction. I don't do that so it's a non-issue.

Motivations for actions vary from person to person as does their interpretations. Take us again. If you asked Fox why he does chores around the house and is obedient I'm sure he'd say because it makes me happy and because he likes to help; I'd say it was because he's a good slave. The result is the same but the personal interpretations and motivations are different. To Fox his being mine feels natural, it feels normal for him, I feel like we had to structure things and work to get here -- perhaps I remember the process more and he remembers the feelings more.

I'm rambling again...

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Post #: 27

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:17:20 AM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Is Fox a slave? No, he is not a slave because he would not serve anyone.

Is he my slave? Yes, he is, fully and deeply. It doesn't make my ownership of him any less in fact I feel it makes it more valuable because I must be special or important to own someone so picky (*wink*).

So...what does it mean for me?...I mean, for you it seems much more like you caring over him, and him having devoted himself just to you is in itself an honor.

but I dunno, maybe its the rum, or its just me, but for my role and my motivations it just feels really...selfish, and I dont like it, seeing as before last night I had always thought the reason I submitted was for wholly unselfish reasons.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to thetammyjo)

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Post #: 28

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:25:05 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Is Fox a slave? No, he is not a slave because he would not serve anyone.

Is he my slave? Yes, he is, fully and deeply. It doesn't make my ownership of him any less in fact I feel it makes it more valuable because I must be special or important to own someone so picky (*wink*).

So...what does it mean for me?...I mean, for you it seems much more like you caring over him, and him having devoted himself just to you is in itself an honor.

but I dunno, maybe its the rum, or its just me, but for my role and my motivations it just feels really...selfish, and I dont like it, seeing as before last night I had always thought the reason I submitted was for wholly unselfish reasons.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you use the terms you use to describe yourself.

Why use "sub" instead of "bottom" for example? What motivates you to use one term over another?

You might also want to think about what it means to be selfish. If we don't take care of ourselves, can we be healthy or happy people?

How does the idea of taking care of the self relate to your idea of what being submissive is?

If you are honest with the persons you are with about why you do what you do and they choose to be with you, who is harmed then?

I can't give you answers or definitiions because I think part of this journey is to discover the meaning of words for ourselves and to use them for ourselves at least as far as our interpersonal lives go.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Post #: 29

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:26:39 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Most people don't do much for wholly unselfish reasons. Just because you are getting something out of it also does not make it wrong or selfish. Mutual gratification is perfectly acceptable. Preferable, in fact, in my opinion.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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Post #: 30

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:28:52 AM

KaramelGoddess

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MsKatHouston: Exactly!!!

Rumtiger: I know you're here, I was trying to think of a polite way to say...maybe you should come back later and look at this again? But I couldn't...so there it is.

With kind regard,
~Kara

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

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Post #: 31

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:32:02 AM

Rumtiger

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Cant, rum keeps me up.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to KaramelGoddess)

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Post #: 32

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:39:54 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
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But, Tiger… what about the woman who likes to top but doesn’t have a Dominant bone in her body? I have a friend who I frustrated the bejezuz out of because I wouldn’t ‘take control’, as he said. I was happy to tie him up and beat him silly…I was not interested in humiliating him nor in having him do my housework; drove the poor man nuts.

Still, his ‘submission’ to my BDSM games with him didn’t really make me Dominant at all; nor him submissive.

We had a Top/bottom relationship; I certainly never thought him selfish, either. Perhaps that is something you’d be interested in …with someone else.

bear

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Post #: 33

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:41:16 AM

Bearlee

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Edited to remove the double post.

Sorry

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 3/31/2007 7:42:01 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 7:45:15 AM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

Most people don't do much for wholly unselfish reasons. Just because you are getting something out of it also does not make it wrong or selfish. Mutual gratification is perfectly acceptable. Preferable, in fact, in my opinion.

bolding is mine...

Ohhhhhhhhhh, PERFECT, MsKat!!! I agree completely!

I think the best relationships are between two somewhat selfish people...people who know what they want and how to get it. Hey, to have a relationship that works...they compromise occasionally; but at least you ALWAYS know that "Yes" means yes! I love that...

bearlee

edited because who knew 'bolding' affected html commands!

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 3/31/2007 7:47:23 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 8:04:36 AM

Rumtiger

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I guess I always thought of being selfish as a negative, and to me submission seemed right because of my personal feelings towards being in any relationship, BDSM or vanilla, I do whats in reason so that I can make them happy. Doing something for the benefit of someone other then yourself, thats what I kinda always thought of submission being at it's core, even though granted to be honost, the idea of women in skin tight leather and latex did kinda hook me into it all.

And besides all that, it dosent even necessarily have to be about the lifestyle, the way I was raised, the morals I was taught, how to act, what was expected of me, selfishness like that just feels wrong to me, like i'm using someone.

As for the hwole liking to top but no dominant bone in her body...no..cant do it, I cant feel right if whoevers doing anything isent really into it at all, it would be like asking me to go and start flogging some girl..am I capable of doing it? I guess, sure, but..i'm not going to be into it or anything, i'm not going to like it.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to Bearlee)

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Post #: 36

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 8:13:13 AM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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Awwwwwwwwwww, Tiger…but I DO likes it! I love heavy floggers; starting slowly on a boy’s back…ramping up to me swinging the thing full out across his shoulders or ass and watching his body redden and warm to the touch.

Then, changing floggers; picking up something a little more stingy and using that awhile. Then perhaps back to the big heavy thuddy one. And…maybe attaching clamps and weights to his thoroughly restrained body while he stands there blindfolded.

Okay, so I have a mild sadistic streak…I like to drag my knife down his red-hot back and along the rise of his butt-cheeks. And I like to crop his cock, too; and watch it bounce with pleasure…and then pick up another flogger and watch him wince, wondering if I’m gonna wrap his balls.

Oh…and speaking of those…...........

Sorry…I got carried away. The deal IS… I love to Top! For me it IS a win/win deal; it is not about doing something purely because he likes it. I really don’t think that, if you are well matched with someone, ANYTHING you do together is all about pleasing the other person ONLY… Try to consider ‘selfish’ is a good thing; an honest way to convey that YES always means YES.

bearlee

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RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 8:17:50 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

Cant, rum keeps me up.

Rumtiger:
Sucker punching some loudmouth does not make you a bad ass it just makes you a bully. Having "skills" also entails responsibility. Perhaps you might want to check with a lawyer about your liability when you put your hands on someone. I think the legal terms are measured response and excessive force.
My dad explained to me at a very early age that when you put your hands on someone it just proves that you are not bright enough to talk to them....yes there are people that I am not bright enough to talk to.
Being selfish does not make you stingy.
As has been previously stated it is necessary to define what you mean by sub,slave,bottom or what ever term you wish to insert to describe the behaviour that you wish to involve yourself in. The definition that you and your partner arrive at is unique to you as a couple and does not need the sanction of anyone else.
thompson

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Post #: 38

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 8:25:18 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
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From: South Central CO
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Tiger...perhaps this will help, too:

From page 3 of this thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_909283/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#926778

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

If anyone is the weird one here, its guys like me or Ponyseeker or Jeff. We, who want that intense loving relationship, seem to be the oddballs in this day and age. And that kind of makes me a little sad.

...
It is, in its way, sad, but in another way it gives anyone reading this thread, regulars and lurkers alike, comfort in knowing that regardless of your orientation and gender that if you don't have the paralyzing fear of the unknown and can allow for the vulnerability and risk, that you CAN have it all, or push to get it. Make that a relationship priority, or limit or red flag or whatever it takes to obtain what you deserve.

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Post #: 39

RE: Another episode of drunken conundrum - 3/31/2007 8:25:40 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Awwwwwwwwwww, Tiger…but I DO likes it! I love heavy floggers; starting slowly on a boy’s back…ramping up to me swinging the thing full out across his shoulders or ass and watching his body redden and warm to the touch.

Then, changing floggers; picking up something a little more stingy and using that awhile. Then perhaps back to the big heavy thuddy one. And…maybe attaching clamps and weights to his thoroughly restrained body while he stands there blindfolded.

Okay, so I have a mild sadistic streak…I like to drag my knife down his red-hot back and along the rise of his butt-cheeks. And I like to crop his cock, too; and watch it bounce with pleasure…and then pick up another flogger and watch him wince, wondering if I’m gonna wrap his balls.

Oh…and speaking of those…...........

Sorry…I got carried away. The deal IS… I love to Top! For me it IS a win/win deal; it is not about doing something purely because he likes it. I really don’t think that, if you are well matched with someone, ANYTHING you do together is all about pleasing the other person ONLY… Try to consider ‘selfish’ is a good thing; an honest way to convey that YES always means YES.

bearlee