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RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:06:34 AM

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
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> I would be very worried because they are taking advantage of the survivor of the abuse in this situation

This is exactly what people not into bdsm say about Tops and Doms. You claim I am taking
advantage of survivors by allowing them to tie me up and take their anger out on me?
You should ask the survivors if this is what they think? They are are mature adults capable
of making their own decisions. How dare you tell them what's best for them. How would
you like it if they told you, you were taking advantage of your top or your Dom or your
bottom or your sub? You have some nerve, and are oblivious to the ironly in your
remark.

> but they need help not seeking revenge but finding other parts of their lives to live for.

Pretty words.    And you will tell people who are depressed that they need to find
other parts of their lives to live for. How little you understand human psychology.

For the 100th time we are not talking about real revenge which is non-consensual.
You are dangerous in that you do not seem to know the difference
between consenual activity and non-consensual activity.  We are talking about
pschodrama. We are talking about acting out and releasing poisonous emotions
in a non-destructive fashion.

> I would be very worried . . . I am an undergraduate in college. I am far from a professional.

Then stop speaking like you are a professional.   Why should anyone care whether your
are worried or not? Who the hell are you? You know most of society is worried about
what ***YOU*** do, including many professional psychologists and psychiatrists. Your
conduct is very worrisome to professionals whose expertise is sexual paraphilias.
Professionals at John Hopkins University would say ***YOU*** suffer from a serious
mental illness, and they would make the exact same arguments word for word you have
made here.

_____________________________

(in reply to daniL)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:11:37 AM

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Joined: 7/31/2006
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> actually.. attacking your postion is rather simple... consider your postion is very weak...

Once again your logic is impeecable, and support for your position irrefutable.

Well, you've demonstrated you're bright enough to hurl insults. Too bad you can't
say anything substantive. Let me know when you have something intelligent to
say like presenting any kind of real refutation. Jumping up and down and shouting:
"Your wrong, Your wrong, Your position is very weak" just makes you look very
weak-minded.

_____________________________

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:17:48 AM

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

Too bad you can't
say anything substantive.

Greetings

Since YOU brought this up, I would like to refer you to a previous post that YOU made

quote:

quote:

There is considerable
literature that supports my claim that psychodrama is and
can be an effective form of therapy

and once again, I will request that YOU back up what you yourself are saying. I would like to the evidence to such please.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:18:01 AM

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> The main reason why i don't like it is because i will have flashbacks and i don't want to relive my past traumatic experiences.

I very valid response.

_____________________________

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:20:18 AM

daniL

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/12/2007
Status: offline

Wait...did you just seriously tell me to stop speaking intelligently because I don't have credentials yet, but because I'm doing the work to get the credentials? Actually, I've been in many classrooms and have discussed sexuality with many professionals where the only people who understood it were the professionals in the room and myself. It is a bit hypocritical to tell me that I shouldn't talk because I'm not a professional in the field, I would think. I would also think say that this is a public forum, and the point of having an intelligent discussion in here is because I enjoy debate and having, would you believe it, intelligent discussion. This is not your private abode, and therefore, I contribute here when and how I want. I don't agree with you, I think you have many flaws in your argument, but I don't begrudge you your right to post here.

And you still haven't commented on whether or not these survivors/victims/whatever you choose to label them are in the state of mind to make rational/healthy decisions and why you are qualified to guide them down one path or the other.

And as to the comment about people with depression...I what I intended to say was that the main goal of therapy was to have a person find other parts of their lives to focus/dwell on. Perhaps I worded this incorrectly and it came off as if I wanted a rainbows and unicorns solution. That was not the case. This is a long, sometimes lifelong process that is extremely delicate.

As for something you said a long time ago on the thread that I need to get off my chest-- True, a perfect command of grammar and spelling doesn't not make someone intelligent. However, intelligent people realize that in order for their point to be taken seriously, they have to have a respectable presentation. It is in that way that the show that they respect and feel strongly about what they have to say.

I think you have confused me speaking as if I am an educated individual as if I am trying to speak like a professional. If I wanted to, I coud spek lik thes + say teh sam thngs but you know what I have realized? That sort of presentation makes educated people's eyes glaze over when you are making a point.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:22:47 AM

Posts: 6277
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From: Under a bridge
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Holy smoke! How did I miss this?

*pops popcorn and sets up the hot dog vendor*

Oh! I have smores too!

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to daniL)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:24:30 AM

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Joined: 7/31/2006
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> Your OP read like you were saying that all abused people should feel this way and should do this.

What part of my OP made it sound this way? Did I ever use the word: "ALL" Whenver you add
the word "ALL" you are making a person's position silly and false. It is a very dishonest thing to
do. I ***NEVER*** used the word "ALL" or "EVERY." I never insinuated the word "ALL" or "EVERY."
You need to ask yourself how often you turn people's rough generalizations into categorical absolutes.

_____________________________

(in reply to thetammyjo)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:29:57 AM

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Joined: 12/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I know some females in the scene were badly mistreated
by some male at some point in their life. I don't get
why they seem to have little interest in acting out some
kind of role playing revenge fantasy. Some say they
are afraid of losing control and going too far, but there
could always be a third party present to prevent that
from happening. I would think that would be theraputic.
Yet, survivors shy away from such a role reversal
dramatization. I know if I was a female and a victim
of abuse, I know I would to channel my anger onto some
male.

For me, taking out my anger on someone who isn't deserving or taking physical revenge in this way makes me no better than the bastard that abused me. It is just the other end of the same situation and isn't healthy at all. I did go to therapy and with help, was able to channel my anger out in a safe, fair and constructive way.

Obviously, you have some sort of fetish with being the whipping post for women who have been abused and taking on all of "men's" transgressions upon yourself. Whatever floats your boat, but for myself, it would be terribly wrong.

Cordially,
minxy

ps Oh, Troll, I'll take a bag of popcorn, light butter and no salt please, and a s'more

what do I owe you?

< Message edited by MasterGremlin -- 4/13/2007 11:34:57 AM >

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:31:35 AM

Posts: 290
Joined: 11/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Holy smoke! How did I miss this?

*pops popcorn and sets up the hot dog vendor*

Oh! I have smores too!

Greetings Master FukinTroll,
Please Sir do You by any chance have any diet coke to go with one of those hot dogs? Oh yummy smores

_____________________________

viperess slave of BlackTarnHeart
heart and chain sister to velvetvixen68

(in reply to FukinTroll)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:33:52 AM

Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

, I am forced to direct all this energy inwards at myself. So it is therapy for me,
too. If I didn't direct this energy inward at myself, I could become a rapist and
sex offender.

Did everyone catch that?

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:34:05 AM

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> Your OP read like you were saying that all abused people should feel this way and should do this.

What part of my OP made it sound this way? Did I ever use the word: "ALL" Whenver you add
the word "ALL" you are making a person's position silly and false. It is a very dishonest thing to
do. I ***NEVER*** used the word "ALL" or "EVERY." I never insinuated the word "ALL" or "EVERY."
You need to ask yourself how often you turn people's rough generalizations into categorical absolutes.

And you need to reread my post above.

I said it read like you were saying that.

I didn't say you said it, I said it was being intrepreted like that by people who were replying to you. You'll note many many people have read what you wrote in that way. Part of that may be their intrepretation, part of the fault must lay with you for how you word it.

You also said later on that you didn't really want to understand why people didn't want to work out their anger in SM -- that it was just a rhetorical device. Again this suggests you wanted to argue for your intrepretation of what is healthy and helpful to do and not learn the various reasons people have.

Instead of misleading this entire thread you might have simply posted: I believe that some people can use SM as a way to work on the anger they have from being abused. (then gone on to discribe the various experiences you have had in this regard)

That at least would have been honest instead of asking a rhetorical question that mislead some of us into believing you actually cared about why some of us won't do that.

Instead of cutting out part of my replies, perhaps you need to read my full replies and consider them. I've been trying to explain what I do and won't do as well and offer some insight into why people have been attacking your statements.

Can you go back and reread my replies please? You might learn something about why at least one survivor won't use SM to deal with anger -- oh, wait, that was only a rhetorical question, you don't really care, right?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:35:11 AM

daniL

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/12/2007
Status: offline

I apologize not for the sentiment or the majority of my past post, but the sarcastic bits were a bit much...I've been trying to resist the urge to be sarcastic...

And pass me a hot dog, I'm going to need the stamina for the "brawl"...unless I get distracted by, you know, life.

(in reply to viperess)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:39:30 AM

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Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

, I am forced to direct all this energy inwards at myself. So it is therapy for me,
too. If I didn't direct this energy inward at myself, I could become a rapist and
sex offender.

Did everyone catch that?

Just now... and that worries me!

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to drawntothedark)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:40:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

, I am forced to direct all this energy inwards at myself. So it is therapy for me,
too. If I didn't direct this energy inward at myself, I could become a rapist and
sex offender.

Did everyone catch that?

I wouldn't read much into that.

I think it shows insight to one's self to be able to say "I could do these things but I chose to do other things."

As a survivor I can say that while my personality helps me see and avoid abusive persons I have felt the draw to becoming an abuser myself in the past. I used to have a very, very easily out of control streak of anger for example. I don't allow myself to do that, I work on my own feelings in what I think are healthy ways, but I could indeed see myself making different choices.

I think it wasn't the wisest choice of words given the tone of this thread but I also don't think it should be read out of context or without a chance at further explanation.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to drawntothedark)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:40:51 AM

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniL

I apologize not for the sentiment or the majority of my past post, but the sarcastic bits were a bit much...I've been trying to resist the urge to be sarcastic...

And pass me a hot dog, I'm going to need the stamina for the "brawl"...unless I get distracted by, you know, life.

I have a much gooder distraction!

Slurp!

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to daniL)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:44:17 AM

thegirlincharge

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Joined: 4/1/2006
Status: offline

It just ain't healthy Whip

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:44:44 AM

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Joined: 5/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

, I am forced to direct all this energy inwards at myself. So it is therapy for me,
too. If I didn't direct this energy inward at myself, I could become a rapist and
sex offender.

Did everyone catch that?

Yeah. Makes me think he has a Jesus complex. He needs to be martyred so he doesn't do the things he is tempted to do. Blech. Why would I want to feed into his fetish at the expense of my hard-won emotional survival?

(in reply to drawntothedark)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:45:14 AM

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I have wasted the better part of the past two days trying to address all the rabid comments made here. I sorry I did not have the time to read every post or respond to every post I read. I am just one person.

> and once again, I will request that YOU back up what you yourself are saying. I would like to the evidence to such please.

You must think I have all the time in the world. You are free to believe me or disblieve me.
You are welcome to do the research.   When I write a paper I provide citations and a
bibliography, and an index. I am not getting paid to educate you.   But here are a few suggestions.
Look up "psychodrama" on Wikipedia. Don't read the article, look it up in the references
listed at the bottom of the page.    Do the same for "anger management." Do the same
for "channeling," "redirecting," and "desensitization." Research therapies for people
who suffer post traumatic stress syndrome, and sexual abuse.

You are not going to find any place that says: "Use a sexual masochist to vent your anger."'
Even if this were proven to be 100% effective, can you imagine why you might not
find it in scientific literature.

Nor could such an activity take place under the supervision of a therapist and under
clinical condiditons. If you know anything at all about human psychology, you
would know clinical observers present in a room would inhibit most survivors
from responding the way they normally would. Simply put, most survivors
would be way too embarrassed to let clinical observers watch them engage
in this kind of conduct.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:45:35 AM

Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

, I am forced to direct all this energy inwards at myself. So it is therapy for me,
too. If I didn't direct this energy inward at myself, I could become a rapist and
sex offender.

Did everyone catch that?

I wouldn't read much into that.

I think it shows insight to one's self to be able to say "I could do these things but I chose to do other things."

As a survivor I can say that while my personality helps me see and avoid abusive persons I have felt the draw to becoming an abuser myself in the past. I used to have a very, very easily out of control streak of anger for example. I don't allow myself to do that, I work on my own feelings in what I think are healthy ways, but I could indeed see myself making different choices.

I think it wasn't the wisest choice of words given the tone of this thread but I also don't think it should be read out of context or without a chance at further explanation.

Perhaps your right.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/13/2007 11:57:10 AM

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

You must think I have all the time in the world. You are free to believe me or disblieve me.
You are welcome to do the research.

Greetings

in other words, your claims about this literature are fictional.

Thank you for clearing that up. You would have gained a measure of respect by saying so yourself.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

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