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What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:30:26 AM

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I know some females in the scene were badly mistreated
by some male at some point in their life. I don't get
why they seem to have little interest in acting out some
kind of role playing revenge fantasy. Some say they
are afraid of losing control and going too far, but there
could always be a third party present to prevent that
from happening. I would think that would be theraputic.
Yet, survivors shy away from such a role reversal
dramatization. I know if I was a female and a victim
of abuse, I know I would to channel my anger onto some
male.

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RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:32:16 AM

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Displacement is not always a good way to deal with the actual issue.

And revenge rarely brings satisfaction or healing either.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:33:15 AM

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Revenge would only keep me in the moment of whatever bad happened. I would much prefer to move forward, to healthier pastures.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:33:39 AM

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Not everyone works on that level. It is not inherent to my nature to fantasize about, want to seek out or take pleasure from revenge. Perhaps I am too practical but, to me the time is much better spent healing myself as best I can and doing what it is that is natural to me... giving.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/12/2007 10:35:09 AM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:34:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Revenge would only keep me in the moment of whatever bad happened. I would much prefer to move forward, to healthier pastures.

Totally agree :)

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:35:24 AM

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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

I know some females in the scene were badly mistreated by some male at some point in their life.

Some men were mistreated by women as well. Revenge and acting out because of that is usually not a healthy way to get over whatever trauma may have occurred. It probably does happen to some degree from all sides. But I doubt most are coming to it from a place of health and well being in order to heal.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:39:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I know some females in the scene were badly mistreated
by some male at some point in their life. I don't get
why they seem to have little interest in acting out some
kind of role playing revenge fantasy. Some say they
are afraid of losing control and going too far, but there
could always be a third party present to prevent that
from happening. I would think that would be theraputic.
Yet, survivors shy away from such a role reversal
dramatization. I know if I was a female and a victim
of abuse, I know I would to channel my anger onto some
male.

This is exactly the reason I am not willing to play with a young Dom who relishes the idea of beating on someone his mother's age. No thank you. I don't want to be the punching pad for her mistakes.

While using imagery to exact revenge on my abusers was useful in my therapy process, the actual physical working out of that revenge, especially on another person, would have been very damaging to me. I am not, by nature, a hurtful person. Knowing that I had hurt someone else would mess with my head far too much to be helpful.

Besides, why would I want to become just like the person who had hurt me? Why should I stoop to their level of behavior? I'm better than that.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:45:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Displacement is not always a good way to deal with the actual issue.

And revenge rarely brings satisfaction or healing either.

What you call "displacement" I call "channeling" or "directing." Abuse always
leads to anger, that anger always has to go some place. Suvivors ususally turn
that anger inwards at themselves. As a result they offen suffer self-hate and
lifelong depression. I don't believe in revenge for moral reasons, but I think
for a lot of people revenge does bring satisfaction and some healing. Nothing
can make a traumatic event go away, but allowing oneself to direct anger
outward instead of inward is less damaging. All too often survivors try to
bury and repress that anger, but find that it all too often the pressure builds
till like a volcano it explodes and is directed at whoever is nearby. This
can be a beloved dog, their own child, or their innocent significant other.
People who were abused have a need to lash out. Most don't because their
entire lives the only place they could direct their anger was at themselves,
or they always had to repress because there was no socially acceptable way
of letting it out.

_____________________________

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:51:01 AM

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Revenge,now this is a word that takes some pondering.Is it necessary in order to move forward or is it just some thing stuck in your mind.I would never take revenge in a relationship,with hard rough sex or a beating.WE have in the past taken in and worked with women that have been treated in this fashion and DIANE receive lots of mail from male submissives that state that they them selfs has suffered in some form or fashion.I say that by moving on and making a better person of your self in spite of what has happen is revenge enought...bounty

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to sublizzie)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:54:11 AM

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the idea would never occur to me because it is just not in my nature to want to inflict suffering on another, despite what they may have done to me. i think it would be fairly unlikely for a submissive-natured person to have fantasies of revenge.

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:55:14 AM

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Greetings,
i could not imagin taking out past abuse on someone else but it is true it does need to be channeled somewhere. Whe Master John died i was taken in by Master Jonas (His brother) as was an agreement made between them until i found another place to serve. When i fell into some unfortunate cercomstances which lead to a visit to the hospital for a few days and in turn begged release from a Master i returned to Master Jonas. As He felt i needed to work out some of the shall we say baggage i then had He placed me in the room with His punching bag and He also gave me a cane to use on it. Many punches, tears, and 4 broken canes later i was able to let go of much of the hurt, anger, and fear of a cane. Many times using something like a punching bag, exercise, or some other positive release is very helpful in getting past things which have hurt us in our lives. But to me to take it out on another person would make me to much like the one who did the initial abuse.
Respectfully,

_____________________________

viperess slave of BlackTarnHeart
heart and chain sister to velvetvixen68

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:55:46 AM

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No offense, WhipTheHip, but are you a councilor or a survivor?

I am both, and to encourage romanticism of revenge in a victim is beyond unhealthy, it is, clinically speaking, unethical.

I have been assaulted... therapy is great for many people, some need to work through it in their own heads and own spaces. In the end beating the shit out of someone might give you an initial release (but not always), but it will not deal with the core issues of your violation.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:56:44 AM

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> I am not, by nature, a hurtful person.

This is true of most survivors that is why they bury their pain and turn it inwards at themselves.

> Knowing that I had hurt someone else would mess with my head far too much to be helpful.

You are not actually hurting a masochist by taking your anger out on them. You are satisfying a craving.
By not taking your anger out on masochists you deprive them of their drug which is more hurtful to them.
Psychodrama does help.

> Besides, why would I want to become just like the person who had hurt me?
> Why should I stoop to their level of behavior? I'm better than that.

Can't you differentiate between non-consensual activity between an adult
and a child, and consensual activity between two adults.    By venting,
channeling and directing your anger at certain masochists you kill two
birds with one stone.   This is exactly what I can't understand. You have
one person who has anger to release and another that has a craving to feel
that anger. What harm is actually being done?  It is just a matter of using
your imagination to channel emotions.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 10:57:54 AM

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I thing you're making quite a few generalizations without any real knowledge of being a victim of abuse. Why do you feel the need to put your perceptions on other people?

I am the survivor of abuse. It doesn't define me. It doesn't make me angry, and it never has. I'm not unhealthy...I've just moved past it, without kicking the family dog along the way.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 11:01:18 AM

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip
Abuse always leads to anger, that anger always has to go some place. Suvivors ususally turn that anger inwards at themselves. As a result they offen suffer self-hate and lifelong depression.
While i agree that this may often be the case, in my case it was/is not. Yes, at the time of the abuse (by my "vanilla" ex-husband), i was of course angry with him. But, i never turned it inward. i had been brought up with a healthy sense of self, high esteem, etc. and never thought i deserved what happened. i think sometimes this makes all the difference. Therefore, i never suffered any self-hate or depression.

People who were abused have a need to lash out.

Fortunately, i can honestly say that i never felt that need. Yes, i felt the need to lash out at him as it was happening or shortly thereafter. But, i did not carry that feeling on with me once the incidents were over.

As the saying goes, living well is the best revenge. That is exactly how i have handled my life. i finally decided that i wanted and needed better for myself and left him. It wasn't easy and the strings weren't all immediately cut but it did eventually happen. i went on with my life, knowing i was capable of whatever i sought to do and eventually the Man who is now my Master found me. He is the exact opposite in every way of the abuser i used to love. i am fulfilled and secure in ways i never dreamt of before. My ex seems to have realized just what he lost when he lost me and he seems to regret his actions. A combination of these two things (my current bliss plus the knowledge that he now realizes what he lost) has proven to be the best "revenge" possible. Overcoming the abuse and succeeding in spite of it is the sweetest "payback" i could have imagined. No bloodletting necessary .... slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 11:02:19 AM

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Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I know some females in the scene were badly mistreated
by some male at some point in their life. I don't get
why they seem to have little interest in acting out some
kind of role playing revenge fantasy. Some say they
are afraid of losing control and going too far, but there
could always be a third party present to prevent that
from happening. I would think that would be theraputic.
Yet, survivors shy away from such a role reversal
dramatization. I know if I was a female and a victim
of abuse, I know I would to channel my anger onto some
male.

Speaking as one of these women, therapy with a professional is the safest and healthiest way to do this.

Fox isn't the a-holes who abused me, Tom isn't them either, they don't deserve that anger.

Honestly after years of therapy there isn't much anger and that's a good thing, it's call progress and becoming me and not being trapped in the past.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 11:02:56 AM

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I'm not a sadist.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 11:03:42 AM

sleazybutterfly

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I have had the chance to get revenge in real life and not play. I decided against it, so I don't see any reason I would do it to someone I really care about.

Letting things eat away at you like that, only keeps you in the moment and doesn't allow you to move on and heal. Sometimes the best thing to do is to let it go, and not give that person anymore control over what happens to you in your life.

Although you might have good intentions, (if I were a woman that had been abused)..always remember you aren't, so you actually have no idea what you would do.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 11:04:02 AM

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

You have one person who has anger to release and another that has a craving to feel that anger.

You sure about that? When I am playing with my sub there is a lot more going on than the physical things I am doing wit/to him. I can take a pretty extreme play session and he will be flying. However, if I attach negative energy to that such as anger, it would put him in an entirely different head space, and not a good one at that. I can't speak for all masochists but I have known quite a few. I have never had anyone crave my anger. They crave a physical expression of my pleasure, though.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to slaveluci)

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 11:10:35 AM

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From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette
I am the survivor of abuse. It doesn't define me. It doesn't make me angry, and it never has. I'm not unhealthy...I've just moved past it, without kicking the family dog along the way.

Once again, spanklette, you said what i was thinking . i think that's the difference between me and alot of other survivors i have spoken with. i definitely do NOT allow it to define me and i never blamed myself for even one iota of it. i was mentally healthy before i married an abuser and i stayed that way through the abuse in spite of what happened. i refused to be labeled a "victim" or to allow his actions to haunt me from here on out so as to prevent me from trusting another. He was merely a speedbump on the road to Master slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to spanklette)

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