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Asking... - 4/21/2005 9:56:10 AM

darlingjade

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
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I'm pulling this from another thread that got me to wondering about the fine art of asking for what you want from your Dom/Master. I apologize in advance if this is a topic that's been covered over and over, however, I thought it a topic worthy of discussion.

All of that having been said, my question to the Doms is this:
Most of us agree that a submissive/slave should ask for those things she desires instead of resorting to some other means of obtaining what she wants so how many of you include in your negotiations and/or training clear cut guidelines for how she should ask, when she should ask, how many times she can ask and what she can ask for?

Post #: 1

RE: Asking... - 4/21/2005 10:06:23 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Answers will of course vary widely depending on the preferences, values and styles of the dominant...

quote:

ORIGINAL: darlingjade

Most of us agree that a submissive/slave should ask for those things she desires instead of resorting to some other means of obtaining what she wants so how many of you include in your negotiations and/or training clear cut guidelines for how she should ask, when she should ask, how many times she can ask and what she can ask for?

The Owner and I didn't really discuss it clearly in the beginning, but I would specifically ask him things like "Do you WANT me to keep reminding me of the time we have to be someplace, or do you want me to just sit quiet?"

Since being together we have had a few discussions about it- what he considers nagging versus honest questioning. I'm not to ask about personal issues or moods nor to push for more information regarding how he's feeling when he chooses to share something sensitive. However, if I want to talk or want something specific, I am expected to ask simply and directly. Whether it's time, attention, a phone call, an item, or a scene.

For example, if we go into a restaurant for dinner, we always bring a book to read. However, if I have something to say I can say "Hey, can we talk some instead? I haven't told you about some stuff from last week" (can you tell we aren't into protocol?). At this point he can say yes or no. If he says no, there's to be NO debate about it whatsoever, however, I can bring it up again later if I feel his mood may have changed. Much beyond that would be going into high risk territory unless I think he's honestly forgotten something.

Hard territory to manage, but that's why it takes time to get to know someone.

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 2

RE: Asking... - 4/21/2005 10:10:37 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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I outline how she should ask, when she should ask and when to leave Me alone. She never has to ask Me several times for something, so I guess that is not really an issue and she can ask for anything that is on her mind, provided that W/we are not in any type of scene that is "scripted" by Me. At that time I want no requests or suggestions, I just want her to enjoy the ride. Repeating herself gets irritating as all hell and I do not want her to get the feeling that she should even have to. She should ask once and when I am ready and able, for instance not in the middle of working on something, I get up and help her or whatever it was she was asking for. I find that apart from the conditions I outlined it is not what she wants, it is how she asks for it that matters the most to Me.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 3

RE: Asking... - 4/21/2005 11:26:24 AM

darlingjade

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
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quote:

quote:

Hard territory to manage, but that's why it takes time to get to know someone.

Exactly!!! Sometimes, as a submissive (and I'm sure as a Top), it can feel like you're playing Marco/Polo, especially in those first few months. What's even worse is when Polo isn't answering Marco(or he IS answering but using hand signals that poor, blindfolded Marco can't see) so you're left to stumble around blindly until you literally run over Polo.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 4

RE: Asking... - 4/21/2005 1:32:38 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darlingjade

quote:

quote:

Hard territory to manage, but that's why it takes time to get to know someone.

Exactly!!! Sometimes, as a submissive (and I'm sure as a Top), it can feel like you're playing Marco/Polo, especially in those first few months. What's even worse is when Polo isn't answering Marco(or he IS answering but using hand signals that poor, blindfolded Marco can't see) so you're left to stumble around blindly until you literally run over Polo.

It is hard. I am going through it right now with a sub I am training. It takes an insane amount of communication (and posting in here certainly helps work out the kinks). I firmly believe the exercise to be worth it though. If Y/you can make it through as a couple Y/you are certainly off to a good head start for the duration.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 5

RE: Asking... - 4/21/2005 2:01:42 PM

darlingjade

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
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Ya know, you'd think that with all of the options we have today to communicate(verbal, nonverbal, e-mail, snailmail, phone, text messages, beepers, discussion groups, sky writing, the grapevine, lip reading, sign language and yes, as a last resort, carrier pigeons) that we would have evolved enough to be able communicate well with one another but it seems that it's the human condition to struggle with this issue.

And yep, in the end it can more than be worth the struggle.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 6

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 9:45:58 AM

ThorsHammer

Posts: 49
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hi,

Since I have just recently finished "negotiating" with a submissive, I can only mentioned what we are doing. WE talked about this potential problem at great length and worked out our "first solution."

First, since we are just beginning our D/s relationship, miscommunications is likely. I have instructed her, if she is unsure or my instructions are unclear to her, to simply say: "Question, Sir." AT that point I will probably give her permission to ask her question or questions since we are "newbie's" in a relationship. As time passes, I believe that this procedure will become used less.

If she is sending me an email .... she just simply entitles it "Question, Sir." I will then make the decission whether she can ask her question. If we are chatting, the same applies.

Second, I have placed a comfortable pillow beside my chair. We call it our "safe pilllowr." Beside the pillow is a folded comforter which she is free to wrap around her if she feels cold. When I have her sitting on it, and the only time she is allowed there is when I place her there .... anything and everything is open for discussion. No fear of punishment for any question asked, opinions given, etc. It is our time to make sure we do communicate as openly as possible and work on our understanding of each other.

So far this seems to have worked. I am quite sure, that as time passes, adjustments will be made.

Just my thoughts.

Donn

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 7

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 10:03:15 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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Why safe pillow? Why not make just everything "safe"?

(in reply to ThorsHammer)

Post #: 8

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 10:32:14 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Why safe pillow? Why not make just everything "safe"?

I am thinking along these same lines. But then again, some like it more strict than others. It would not work for U/us, but to each T/their own.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 9

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 12:23:09 PM

ThorsHammer

Posts: 49
Joined: 1/1/2004
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SirKenin and EmeraldSlave

Our purpose for the safe pillow is to ensure that we have a structure to ensure we get our relationship off to a good start.

Yes, we are beginning our relationship in a very structured way. We think this will give us the best chance to succeed.

I'm sorry this upsets you two but it's our relationship .... not yours.

Donn

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 10

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 12:33:05 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I'm sorry you thought an online post about a safe pillow would upset me.

I've never really understood the concept of "time outs" in terms of the dynamic, a space or place or time when the slave can "speak freely" without the rules and such in place.

It makes me feel like the rules and such thus are not really "who you are" but just something that you put on for awhile and take off when things "get real."

It also makes me feel like you miss a lot of opportunities to grow closer that will naturally occur outside of that "space."

But upset because you use a safe pillow?

(in reply to ThorsHammer)

Post #: 11

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 1:03:07 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I'm sorry you thought an online post about a safe pillow would upset me.
....
But upset because you use a safe pillow?

My thoughts exactly. If you want to strap her to a wall except to have her clean and give You a blow job, that is more than ok by Me. It may not be My cup of tea per se, but it is a free country. Right? Perhaps Our style of BDSM may not be the same, but just because I offer up a question about it does not mean I am upset. Man you have to give Me more credit than that. lol

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 12

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 1:27:56 PM

darlingjade

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I've never really understood the concept of "time outs" in terms of the dynamic, a space or place or time when the slave can "speak freely" without the rules and such in place.

I think the reason a lot of subs can't and won't communicate a lot of things is because they fear that they'd be punished for it and in some cases they would be.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 13

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 3:57:05 PM

velvetvixen

Posts: 378
Joined: 1/19/2004
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I am permitted to speak freely to Master about anything at anytime.

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 14

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 4:39:29 PM

rockh4

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/20/2005
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I prefer an arrangement where the submissive can speak to me openly and say anything about anything without reprisal. For me, this works when we are out for drinks, or talking a walk in a park or hiking through the woods or on a long drive.

Whe she is actively submitting to my direct Control and Domination, no questions are allowed...

(in reply to velvetvixen)

Post #: 15

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 5:01:03 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

I've worked hard to teach my girl that she can ask anything at any time, free of reprisals. In the beginning of our relationship getting her to ask questions was as difficult as getting her to voice her thoughts and opinions and it literally took months to get her to open up. It was well worth it as we've now reached a point where she trusts me enough to be completely open and honest about whatever is on her mind. IMO, anything that leads a submissive or slave to opening up is worth the price.
Timothy

(in reply to darlingjade)

Post #: 16

RE: Asking... - 4/22/2005 7:12:50 PM

lil1v

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
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I'm of the "school of thought" that I should feel free to say whatever is on my mind at any time. If I'm afraid to speak openly and be honest about my feelings/thoughts/opinions, then the relationship isn't going to work for me.

Now this doesn't mean I should be disrespectful and I would expect to be punished if I was. But I would expect open communication on both parties.

There may be scenes or punishments or whatever that would require me to be silent, but I couldn't handle it being all the time.

I do have problems asking for things I want. For several reasons, none of which have to do with the lifestyle, but with how I was raised and past relationships etc.

_____________________________

V

(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 17

RE: Asking... - 4/23/2005 2:00:45 PM

darlingjade

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I've worked hard to teach my girl that she can ask anything at any time, free of reprisals. In the beginning of our relationship getting her to ask questions was as difficult as getting her to voice her thoughts and opinions and it literally took months to get her to open up. It was well worth it as we've now reached a point where she trusts me enough to be completely open and honest about whatever is on her mind. IMO, anything that leads a submissive or slave to opening up is worth the price.
Timothy

quote:

I do have problems asking for things I want. For several reasons, none of which have to do with the lifestyle, but with how I was raised and past relationships etc

Ok, this is interesting, I had major problems too until I ran up against someone that would tolerate nothing less than honest communication. These days I'm much better at expressing myself , however, I'll admit that it's still much easier to write something than it is to verbalize it.

(in reply to lil1v)

Post #: 18

RE: Asking... - 4/24/2005 11:07:34 AM

Interesdom

Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176
I've worked hard to teach my girl that she can ask anything at any time, free of reprisals. In the beginning of our relationship getting her to ask questions was as difficult as getting her to voice her thoughts and opinions...

This is one reason I instigate a "safe place" for subs or slaves in training with me, or in a new relationship with me. By having a specific place (normally a mat) where they can go, I achieve two things: firstly it's a place they can retreat to if the world is getting too much for them - I might try coaxing them off the mat (for a cuddle and a chat, normally) but I never order them off it; secondly, because they know they are 'safe' there, they are more likely to ask and talk just as they should really feel they can do anywhere else. For one very timid girl, I simply gradually expanded the 'safe area for talking' (without affecting other aspects of her mat as the safe place) first to the room, then to the whole floor, then to the whole house until finally changing it to anywhere we were alone together.

Incidentally, another use of her safe place is that I can use it for punishment - I send a girl to her mat in the same way as some would have their's stand in a corner.

(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 19

RE: Asking... - 4/27/2005 12:36:07 PM

DreamWeaverAz

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

I am and have been, always of the impression that even though I am Dom, I am still human and thus not all knowing (shudders at the mere words of admission)...that being the case. I have always told mine that if I am not seeing something or they are lacking in something I appear to have missed...that they only need ask to speak thier mind. I am always willing to listen and hear the words and thoughts....I can not be a mind reader and know one by actions alone...I have to be willing to listen as well.

_____________________________

Honor and Trust and Respect before anything other

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 20

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