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Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 6:44:53 AM

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I've been on CM for a long time now....met and talked with many Dom/masters.
The one characteristic I find extremely prevalent, is narcissism. Repeatedly I kept hearing their needs, their wants...what they seek sexually, what they expect in RL, like housework, contributing monetary, on and on. Why? Don't they realize since it is a power exchange it's not all about them? It's about the "us" factor? What do they have to offer? Everyone has different styles....to me wiping the board clean, totally, before each relationship is the way to go, not to be compared to anyone. Narcissism is indeed a mental disorder....and it seems big time in BDSM. I have switch tendencies...man...do I feel giving some of these doms a good flogging~! Lil

_____________________________

“The only thing I regret about my past is the length of it. If I had to live my life again I'd make all the same mistakes - only sooner.”
santiz Tallulah Bankhead quotes , 1903-1968)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 7:42:13 AM

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Some of us have a heirarchy. I do. Mine is: My need and the slave's need are equal. Then comes my wants, then comes the slave's wants.

If you find someone who doesn't seem to care about your needs and wants and this is an important point to you, simply move on. There are those of use out here that would.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 8:27:49 AM

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This does not just apply to dominant males. There is significant narcissim among dominant females.

For me, a dom/sub relationship is symbiotic, that is, both parties benefit from the relationship. Dommes have a tendency to forget this because the ratio of subs to dommes so favors them. Frankly, I find some domme profiles absolutely insulting.

Dominants would do well to remember that their power orientation does not make them smarter, better looking or physically stronger than submissives. It does not give any greater weight to their opinions.

I choose to submit because it is something that I enjoy and is consistent with my nature. I assume that dominants enjoy my submission or they would not engage in it. I don't think submission is a gift because a gift implies that I get nothing in return and I get much in return from submission. I assume that the dominant enjoys being in control as much as I enjoy submitting to that control and, thus, they are not giving me a gift. They are enjoying themselves and, if that is not the case, they are submissive rather than dominant (IMHO).

Bottom line: I consider dominance and submission a MUTUAL thing. It's not all about the dominant and it's not all about the submissive. It's about both. The best relationships, in my opinion, happen when each party recognizes this mutuality.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 9:04:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BayouSub

This does not just apply to dominant males. There is significant narcissim among dominant females.

For me, a dom/sub relationship is symbiotic, that is, both parties benefit from the relationship. Dommes have a tendency to forget this because the ratio of subs to dommes so favors them. Frankly, I find some domme profiles absolutely insulting.

Dominants would do well to remember that their power orientation does not make them smarter, better looking or physically stronger than submissives. It does not give any greater weight to their opinions.

I choose to submit because it is something that I enjoy and is consistent with my nature. I assume that dominants enjoy my submission or they would not engage in it. I don't think submission is a gift because a gift implies that I get nothing in return and I get much in return from submission. I assume that the dominant enjoys being in control as much as I enjoy submitting to that control and, thus, they are not giving me a gift. They are enjoying themselves and, if that is not the case, they are submissive rather than dominant (IMHO).

Bottom line: I consider dominance and submission a MUTUAL thing. It's not all about the dominant and it's not all about the submissive. It's about both. The best relationships, in my opinion, happen when each party recognizes this mutuality.

You said it beautifully. A relationship is a MUTUAL thing and it takes both people being equally fulfilled to make it work. When things get too one sided that is usually when discord sets in.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to BayouSub)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 9:21:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BayouSub

Bottom line: I consider dominance and submission a MUTUAL thing. It's not all about the dominant and it's not all about the submissive. It's about both. The best relationships, in my opinion, happen when each party recognizes this mutuality.

Ditto Bayousub...!!!!

When I first started to read the OP....my first thought was that the female dommes where exactly the same in attitude as the male doms...generally speaking of course.....jmo

(in reply to BayouSub)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 9:50:33 AM

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Thanx all for the input....I didn't realize the same goes for Dominant women..domme's, probably because I'm not looking for one so it hasn't been my experience. But, I certainly can appreciate it happens with both.It is the most intimate relationship to me.I do find however, a lot, aren't spiritually mature. Lil

_____________________________

“The only thing I regret about my past is the length of it. If I had to live my life again I'd make all the same mistakes - only sooner.”
santiz Tallulah Bankhead quotes , 1903-1968)

(in reply to stockingluvr54)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 10:10:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lillithsdream

Thanx all for the input....I didn't realize the same goes for Dominant women..domme's, probably because I'm not looking for one so it hasn't been my experience. But, I certainly can appreciate it happens with both.It is the most intimate relationship to me.I do find however, a lot, aren't spiritually mature. Lil

As far as my post goes...keep in mind I said "generally speaking". There are some Doms/Dommes that post that are very sensitive/understanding....that's the feeling I get from several after reading their posts day in and day out? Keep in mind that they have an "image" to keep up. I have narsistic(sp) traits also.... the right way,the wrong way and MY way! lol. BUT I believe that my shortcommings help drive my sub side? So maybe at least being aware of both traits helps our switch or ourselves in a better way....????

< Message edited by stockingluvr54 -- 4/13/2007 10:12:04 AM >

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 10:58:51 AM

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Thank you to everyone who kindly replied to my post. I do agree that what I posted does not apply to all dommes/doms.

I don't treat BDSM as some alternate universe and I apply most of the same rules here that I apply my everyday life. If I'm dating a woman who seems totally self-absorbed -"me, me, me, lets talk about you, what do you think of me?" - I'm pretty much going to end it ASAP. The same thing applies here. I don't think narcissistic persons make the best dominants.

(in reply to stockingluvr54)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 12:19:22 PM

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Erm, something else to keep in mind with this particular topic of discussion...

A lot of these folks have never BEEN in a real relationship. Much like an Aristotelian philosopher declairing that rats are parthenogenically spawned out of piles of rags, many whom you wil meet have spent a long time thinking very carefully about what they want, what they are looking for, and how it all fits together, before they ever took the time to try and make it work. Later, when the hard evidence does not fit their expectation, it becomes the fault of the others, not the premise itself.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/13/2007 8:12:18 PM

arayofsunshine55

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When I am talking to someone I ask questions. I don't mind him telling me what he wants . I do expect to get a sense that he cares what I want and who I am and what I think, reciprocally. That he demonstrates he understands that it takes two to do this unfolding dance. And I look for him to treat me as a unique human being unfolding before him, not jut an extension of his very elaborate fantasy. And I accord him the same in return. Anything else is not for me. But IMO this is a human thing -- I get it from sub and dom men, although not usually from switches, funny that. I'll just assume they, dom and sub men, get it from women as well.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/14/2007 3:04:50 AM

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Suleiman, that is a wonderful description about a common problem.

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

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(in reply to Suleiman)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/14/2007 7:00:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lillithsdream

The one characteristic I find extremely prevalent, is narcissism. Repeatedly I kept hearing their needs, their wants...what they seek sexually, what they expect in RL, like housework, contributing monetary, on and on. Why? Don't they realize since it is a power exchange it's not all about them? It's about the "us" factor? What do they have to offer? Everyone has different styles....to me wiping the board clean, totally, before each relationship is the way to go, not to be compared to anyone. Narcissism is indeed a mental disorder....and it seems big time in BDSM. I have switch tendencies...man...do I feel giving some of these doms a good flogging~! Lil

Narcissism, God what an ugly disorder when it's full blown!
As a Submissive (notice I capitolize, snicker) most of my interaction is with Dominant Men. It was a flaming Narcissist that led my search into this lifestyle after being discarded for the zillionith time. As I studied Narcissism, I also dug deep into myself to realize what it was in me that allowed the treatment I accepted, which lead me here.
What I have noticed is many Dominants have Narcistic qualities. And not all of those qualities are bad things. It's only when taken to extremes that they become dangerous.
Yes, I used the word danger in that a strong enough connection with a Submissive who has chosen to give all of themselves is doing their best to ~believe~ and place full trust.
The danger is in that belief, that trust where you pull the wool over your own eyes willingly after each and every slight of any need you may have.
It's a path way to being a doormat.

Having been there makes me sensitive to smaller issues that can and sometimes does point to Narcissitic behavior. Being uncollared, I chat with a few Dominants almost daily, some of which show tendencies that I note. One sends an informative note daily of where he's going, what he's bought and what he wants. It's rare that he will ask of my well being. Another very similar in action. He's a busy man that I know I lean on too much out of want. He sometimes will offer wisdom when asked for it, but has never asked how I'm healing, or progressing. His world, his needs are what gets mentioned. There are others who are similar, Dominant, Submissive or Switch we all are busy with our own lives and needs. That is human nature. BUT... it's when ownership is involved even to some small token of promise that the others needs fail to be addressed in conversation where I pull back wondering if I am even noticed at all.

I agree that clean slate is needed, yet our lessons are past tense and not to repeate them makes one look backwards. I dont know where the balancing act evens out, but I believe it all comes to communication and remembering that it is a two way street.

< Message edited by Quivver -- 4/14/2007 7:02:06 AM >

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/14/2007 7:03:41 AM

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There is a huge difference between a self-absorbed ass and a person with narcissistic personality disorder. People who have the disorder are dysfunctional in many ways and they are not good choices for relationship material. Getting them out of your life can be a huge challenge.

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Quivver)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/14/2007 7:07:47 AM

Firebirdseeking

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Interesting post...yes, I have had arguments with men about this issue...it is my contention, based on what Dom friends have hammered into me, that a true Dom creates a feeling of trust, openness, and honesty; he listens to the needs, wants and desires of the submissive, and if he is interested in who she is, he then "seduces" her with his dominance, and not with his domination. A power exchange is still certainly a relationship where both needs are fulfilled.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/14/2007 7:08:27 PM

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Because TWOO dominants realize it's all about them!

Psssh. A true dominant realizes it's all about the submissive. I agree with whoever said these people have never been in real relationships.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/18/2007 10:46:14 AM

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Are they really narcissistic or are they simply more assertive than you feel comfortable with. I expected any dom I talked to would be highly assertive. I didn't expect them to be mind readers. The acid test for me came when I told them they were pushing too hard and too fast. At that point I expected them to listen and slow down to a pace I could handle.

(in reply to jthorne)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/18/2007 11:10:57 AM

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I understand.

Just remember that there are huge numbers of men in this who seem to want to marry thier mommies.

With that sort of neediness in mind-what do you expect-a secure attitude?

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 4/18/2007 11:49:10 AM

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I can't believe I missed this thread, but I hardly ever peek in this section.

I started a thread a few days back about Passive Aggressive Dominants because I felt that my former master was displaying many of those traits I found on a website about PA.

But then I stumbled across a website on Narcissism and holy hell, my stomach went into a knot. It was like I was reading the Owners Manual for him! I had finally found the missing pieces to the puzzle that was my life for the last 5 months.

Because this is all relatively new to me and this was my first M/s relationship, I was feeling my way through it, with a great deal of help from the people on this board, whether directly or indirectly. They played a role in my salvation and that is not to say that I didn't play a role as well, because I did... and I'm proud of myself for not letting him do anything more than drive me nuts for a few months. Yay me!

I came away from it with a sting when it could have been a different story were I weak or naive. Although a threat I received today may have to be dealt with should it prove to be anything more than blowing smoke on his part.

The whole situation has left me wondering if I'm gonna over-analyze any future dominants, or not analyze them enough because they shouldn't pay for someone elses issues.

I know we all display a wide variety of traits that are a part of these "personality disorders" but when you're looking at the blueprint of the person standing in front of you, and know you are just a discardable player in their self-gratifying game...... it's time to find the exit.

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 5/2/2007 11:11:59 AM

DefiantSurrender

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

I can't believe I missed this thread, but I hardly ever peek in this section.

I started a thread a few days back about Passive Aggressive Dominants because I felt that my former master was displaying many of those traits I found on a website about PA.

But then I stumbled across a website on Narcissism and holy hell, my stomach went into a knot. It was like I was reading the Owners Manual for him! I had finally found the missing pieces to the puzzle that was my life for the last 5 months.

Because this is all relatively new to me and this was my first M/s relationship, I was feeling my way through it, with a great deal of help from the people on this board, whether directly or indirectly. They played a role in my salvation and that is not to say that I didn't play a role as well, because I did... and I'm proud of myself for not letting him do anything more than drive me nuts for a few months. Yay me!

I came away from it with a sting when it could have been a different story were I weak or naive. Although a threat I received today may have to be dealt with should it prove to be anything more than blowing smoke on his part.

The whole situation has left me wondering if I'm gonna over-analyze any future dominants, or not analyze them enough because they shouldn't pay for someone elses issues.

I know we all display a wide variety of traits that are a part of these "personality disorders" but when you're looking at the blueprint of the person standing in front of you, and know you are just a discardable player in their self-gratifying game...... it's time to find the exit.

Ugh, been there, done that.

Wish i'd stumbled across that online "Owner's Manual" years ago, rather than when i did...woulda saved a world of drama and confusion.

edited to say: Good topic by the way, Lillithsdream.

< Message edited by DefiantSurrender -- 5/2/2007 11:14:01 AM >

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

RE: Narcissism and the dominant male. - 5/2/2007 2:15:40 PM

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I don't come over here much either 'cause I'm not a switch, but I've noticed the same tendency. I seem to have gotten involved with more than my fair share of guys with a predisposition towards narcissism. I'm learning to spot it earlier and earier, though. Go me!

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to Lillithsdream)

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