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sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:12:35 AM

Posts: 44
Joined: 1/6/2007
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ok please don't all scream at me at once.

I am struggling w/ my vow of submission.

I want to be comfortable to stay at his feet, cater to his every whim, be silent instead of shooting off my mouth, follow his every command w/o shirking.

The problem is that I do not feel like doing any of that right now. I want to tell him exactly how I feel, to do his own dishes, clean his own clothes, to look him in the eye and stand beside him as his wife not under his boot as a doormat.

Why can't I be the person he wants me to be, the person I hope I am deep inside?

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:17:59 AM

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
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There is a huge difference between submission and being a doormat. You shouldn't want to be what he wants you to be, if being that does not make you happy. My impression is that his idea of domination is getting his needs fulfilled and ignoring yours. Both of your needs require fulfilling for a D/s relationship to work. A successful relationship demands constant, open and honest communication. You need to tell him you are unhappy, and why.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:32:25 AM

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Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline

please don't think he treats me like a doormat, b/c he so does not. It just that I am having a big problem w/ giving up my independence.

(in reply to SirDominic)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:35:12 AM

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

There is a huge difference between submission and being a doormat. You shouldn't want to be what he wants you to be, if being that does not make you happy. My impression is that his idea of domination is getting his needs fulfilled and ignoring yours. Both of your needs require fulfilling for a D/s relationship to work. A successful relationship demands constant, open and honest communication. You need to tell him you are unhappy, and why.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

Ditto, with the addition of:
It seems that you are equating submission with a negative role. Either this has come from somewhere inside you or this is how he's made you feel through his own attitude or actions. The latter can be dealt with using the advice above. The former must be an introspection activity; look inside and figure out where it's come from.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to SirDominic)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:36:51 AM

Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

If your dynamic does not have room within it for you to express your opinions, resentment is likely to rear it's ugly head.
I don't know if everyone struggles with submission or not. I certainly do. That doesn't mean you aren't the person you want to be, or the person he wants you to be.
I think it is natural to struggle with this. I think that as you talk and your relationship develops, it will become easier over time to submit and give up that independence. But expecting to give it up all at once and have it be easy isn't realistic.

What I do when I feel this way is I write. Or I talk to friends about how I want to vent and scream and rage. And it helps to express the emotion, and allows me to kneel at his feet or do dishes or what have you. And I'll be honest, sometimes I'm not nearly so controlled and I scream "wash your own fucking dishes" because I don't feel like I'm getting what _I_ need out of the whole deal. I hate myself for losing control, but I do lose control and I will admit it.

If you need friends to talk to when you have a hard time, there's a message board full of them here. And if you don't want all the Dom/mes in the world responding, start up an e-mail correspondence with a few of them. Many of us here are on livejournal, also, and you could get a few fellow subs in your friends list and know that others are reading and will give loving responses to your difficult times.

Good luck darlin
~E

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:37:15 AM

Posts: 562
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline

I take it your new at this then. It's perfectly normal to have those feelings early into the lifestyle. You should however, take the time to sit and talk with your husband, let him know how you feel and the struggle your having with in so he can help you overcome your barriers.

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 10:56:13 AM

Posts: 44
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline

i guess I'm new... been trying this kind of relationship w. my husband for 10 yrs. Because of life and now kids, it has been an off and on again thing. We are trying to start over again. I have lost alot of my subness. I just feel like I have been topping from the bottom by acting out to get a session started. Now, as I try to begin again, I am having a lot of trouble getting into the sub mindset.

(in reply to HutchGarahl)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 11:05:01 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xethnkitten

ok please don't all scream at me at once.

I am struggling w/ my vow of submission.

I want to be comfortable to stay at his feet, cater to his every whim, be silent instead of shooting off my mouth, follow his every command w/o shirking.

The problem is that I do not feel like doing any of that right now. I want to tell him exactly how I feel, to do his own dishes, clean his own clothes, to look him in the eye and stand beside him as his wife not under his boot as a doormat.

Why can't I be the person he wants me to be, the person I hope I am deep inside?

Sometimes being a submissive is hard. And sometimes it helps to remember that they love us for who we are, not an unfeeling, unthinking robot of a woman or man who never wants to finish the chapter in the book they are reading before shining their boots.

I do not think that being Valyraen's submissive makes me his doormat. If I am working on something for school, then I will tell him that I can not get him food or whatever he wants. We have both agreed that my graduation is more important then serving him a beer. In fact, he sees me as his equal, though we take greatest joy in our interactions by having our power dynamic. In this power dynamic, however, I am still very much his equal and I do stand beside him as well as playing at his feet.

Talk to your owner. Find out what he wants. Valyraen very much desired me to keep my independent and strong-natured sides. Sometimes, when I've dealt with too much from my teachers, too much from my parents, and he's riding my butt too much, I still tell him to fuck off and get his own damn sandwhich. Generally I get a firm smack on the tush and then head off to get it, grumbling. Honestly, I think it amuses him.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 11:11:17 AM

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

Is he doing his part in this relationship? Resentment will build until it explodes if any of the people in the relationship aren't carrying out their responsibilities to the relationship and to each other. That's not to say that life in general doesn't get in the way, but if it's an ongoing issue, then it's something that needs to be addressed.

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 11:19:35 AM

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I think it's normal to go through periods of doubt. I've been in one for months now. I'm trying to figure out what I want, need, etc. It makes me feel less submissive than I used to, yet it's freeing because I have a much better idea of what I want in a relationship. For me, being submissive is one part of who I am and it's not the biggest part of my life. I don't spend much time grieving what I think I'm not or grieving what I may (or may not) have lost.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 2:47:37 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Ahh thanks for the background. You two should talk openly and make a battle plan. What are some specific rules he can have in place? What about a specific rewards system set up for your good behavior? What specific actions do you want to explore more and what makes HIM feel more dominant?

AFter 10 years of marriage and kids, you've got the basic relationship foundation stuff down. You're committed and together. Now you have to find a balance together of being happy just being together AND happy in a system of authority transfer.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 2:57:46 PM

Posts: 137
Joined: 2/25/2004
Status: offline

xethnkitten, Maybe you are just not ready for that step. To give it all up. Nothing wrong with that. It will come if it is meant to. As far as doubts we all have them at one time or another in our lives whether in or outside of the lifestyle. It is how you handle the doubts.
Talk to your Dom and let him know how you are feeling. You might be surprised what the two of you can come up with so things go more smoothly.
Best of luck

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 3:13:25 PM

Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline

There's also a huge difference between being a doormat and giving up your independence. Unless he's the type of Master who wants to micromanage every little tiny bit of your life you'll need that independence you speak of, from what's for dinner to what to where, to how/when to clean the house, to a thousand other things. In many ways those answers are based on knowing what will please him, but yanno what -- i did that too in my very, very vanilla marriage. i wanted him to be happy, dammit (lol), even if he never noticed. (I kept telling myself he'd notice if "it" hadn't been done, but that was a big (& probably wrong) assumption on my part.

The "trick" is to keep that part of yourself that is proud of who and what you are, and what you bring to your relationship, and not feel lost in his shadow -- a tall order for some, i guess, but it's still important to me, imho.

Also, have you asked him if your total subjugation, i.e., losing all of those things that he was attracted to) is what he wants? It's important to know that too. i think my biggest assumption in my old Master/slave relationship was assuming all manner of things instead of asking.

Does he pick out what kind of broom or mop you use, whether you use Fantastic or 409 to clean with, where you work or what kind of work you do (as long as it's legal..lol), and on and on and on. All of those decisions (and so many others) are based on independent thinking, which again. imho, makes you an independent woman.

This brings me to another idea...perhaps a new definition or an altered one is needed, or would be handy to have anyway. my submission is very much a part of who and what i am, even if few (if any others) can or want to see it. You said it in your second post "I am having a big problem w/giving up my independence." My rather humble suggestion is that you seek his advice and guidance, and maybe hardest of all, truly listen and follow his instructions.

Good luck..
jimini

quote:

ORIGINAL: xethnkitten

please don't think he treats me like a doormat, b/c he so does not. It just that I am having a big problem w/ giving up my independence.

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 3:16:02 PM

Posts: 44
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline

thank you all for your responses. I have been struggling with my sub side for a while. Today I had a breakdown and so I decided to write for advice. Your responses have helped so much! I am much calmer than I was earlier and Xeth and I have talked. We are committed to working this out one step at a time.

(in reply to OnlyHis)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 4:21:19 PM

Posts: 44
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline

<Xeth>
My kitten has expressed to me that she feels she did not express the situation clearly and has requested that I try to shed some light on the situation. We've been together for 10 years and we never seriously tried to do a 24/7 D/s relationship, something we are now considering. Most times it was bedroom play...and for part of our courtship, I was not mature enough to treat that aspect of our relationship with the seriousness it needed and it's causing some hesitations. Now, that we are both actively interested in pursuing that side of ourselves again, there are quite a number of distractions as well. Mainly how to structure it with a house full of kids, how to clarify our communications, and just how to balance being parents and spouses with Master and slave.

One thing I'm trying to put forth to her is that I want the dichotomy (sp?) of her telling me when she feels I need to help around the house, etc...as well as her deferring to me on what she needs to do, within reason. Occasionally I need to be told that I'm ignoring my surroundings and shutting myself off from everyone, it's one of the things I expect to happen since I am easily absorbed by certain...geeky...things. (OO...shiny RPG books...) This does bring a bit of confusion and we are going to work this out...but I know she needs outside viewpoints on how she can approach this from a subby view. There is also the added stress of a change in career on my part that has also changed my outlook on life and priorities. Road weariness is new for both of us...and she has not the experience of travelling for work to reference as well. As always, relationships are a work in progress...

I have been letting her know to continue to chat to folks regarding this...and we are going to work together on house rules and an official contract in the near future to help stabalize this aspect of our love.

Thank you all for supporting my kitten and helping her work through her thoughts.

-Xeth

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 4:25:07 PM

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline

I can understand what that feels like for kitten. I think this is natural with a couple who has already had so many years to form their expectations of each other. She's never had to obey without question with you, so it's become natural for her not to have to. I think both of you will need to stay very consistent for quite a long time to change the status quo in your relationship. I believe it can be done if both partners are vey devoted and neither one drops the ball too much.

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 4:28:12 PM

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Joined: 12/22/2006
Status: offline

I know how you feel. Sometimes you just want someone to get a drink for you or make you dinner..or clean your house. LOL.

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 4:51:46 PM

Posts: 219
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xethnkitten

ok please don't all scream at me at once.

I am struggling w/ my vow of submission.

I want to be comfortable to stay at his feet, cater to his every whim, be silent instead of shooting off my mouth, follow his every command w/o shirking.

The problem is that I do not feel like doing any of that right now. I want to tell him exactly how I feel, to do his own dishes, clean his own clothes, to look him in the eye and stand beside him as his wife not under his boot as a doormat.

Why can't I be the person he wants me to be, the person I hope I am deep inside?

Reactance is very common.

Instead, try asking yourself- what is in it for you long term?

(in reply to xethnkitten)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 5:00:25 PM

Posts: 134
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

The best Master/slave relationships are defined by what works best for the couple. You've been together for a long time! There are going to be certain aspects of your life that are hard to change and the real question is "do you need them to?". I've known plenty of Masters who have very independant slaves! Telling your Master how you feel is generally a very good thing. Hoping he'll help with the dishes isn't a bad thing either necessarily, especially if its been an expectation in your relationship for the last decade. There is no need to redefine your relationship instantly. Theres no slave switch in your brain that is going to make you instantly compliant or take away your desire to be the firey woman you've always been. My guess is that those parts of you are just as much a part of who he fell in love with as the submissive parts are!
Be patient with yourself. Discuss your feelings with him and find ways to redefine your relationship in a way that makes you both happy.

(in reply to Stranger1)

RE: sub doubts - 4/15/2007 5:38:17 PM

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Well you are human and we all have days where we don't want to be anything. Its called life, you can't be a perfect sub everyday. The best thing to do is talk with him about your feelings and try to work it out. It doesn't mean you are a bad sub it just means you are human. Believe me most everyone has these feelings once in a while.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to xethnkitten)

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