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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 5:57:14 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

That's sad that you think that gun owners sit around all day wondering and fretting about all around them.  I have a lot of guns in my home.  I'm not paranoid in the least.  In fact, just the opposite.  I'm quite comfortable knowing that I have a better chance of protecting myself and my family from an intruder or an animal.  I live in a rural area without a police force.  We rely on the state police and their response time is fifteen minutes at a minimum due to the area they cover.  A lot can happen in fifteen minutes.


There must be an awful lot of intruders in America for people to be so concerned about them.


Meat, there are.
About 12-20 million of them!

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 6:11:15 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You can call personal safety a myth, if you wish. Probably won't play well to those that feel more safe with a gun.


I do believe that individuals control a great deal of their own destiny, such that you won't fall into general patterns of risk.

But, according to the New England Journal of Medicine, that great left wing, anti-gun organization of the Northeast, owning a gun increases the risk of homicide in your own home.

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 6:17:14 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		breathing increases the risk of lung cancer, but I say fuck it, live a little.

John Wayne


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 6:18:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah, but smoking pot cures lung cancer, they're suggesting now based on studies....



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 6:18:42 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"I have heard and read that happens much more often than saving the life of the person that owns the gun "

Well, "Intruder doesn't enter home because of high likelyhood of armed response" doesn't exactly lend itself to a headline, does it?

"Women defends herself from mugger, None Hurt"?

I guess in a small town that would get some play.




My Daddy teaches women to defend themselves with their natural weapons in many scenarios...including against armed assailants. After going to witness what they teach women I would rather rely on that than a weapon that can be taken from me and used against me. It makes sense knowing what I know about the adrenaline response now. People have the right to their guns. If they choose to arm themselves, that is their right, just like others of us do not have to arm ourselves.

Most people that do bad things fear any sort of resistance, armed or not. A dog is a deterrent too. This is why most home invasions happen when people are not at home, while they are on vacation or at work. I understand that you have very strong feelings about gun ownership. I am not trying to change your mind about that. I just agree with my Daddy, guns are not the only or necessarily the best way of self defense. People should learn about the adrenaline response, the facts of how to prevent home invasion, and many other things, instead of relying on a handgun to be their sole protection. I doubt most people get not only the basic training they would need for using a gun, but the adrenaline response training that they need to be able to use one in case their life depended upon it. 


Edited to add, my Daddy just informed me that a home invasion is legalese for a home intruder that is armed and enters while people are home. These crimes are relatively rare

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/20/2007 6:30:35 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:15:47 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, YEAH.

HELL YEAH!

First and foremost is Deterrence, then if that fails, Counter-Attack. Firearms are just another tool to that end. For deterrence, yeah, that's ONE reason we evolved dogs. And a damned good one. Wife#1 has No Fears taking the American Staffie out for a walk after dark. But it's also ONE reason we invented arms, too.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:24:11 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, YEAH.

HELL YEAH!

First and foremost is Deterrence, then if that fails, Counter-Attack. Firearms are just another tool to that end. For deterrence, yeah, that's ONE reason we evolved dogs. And a damned good one. Wife#1 has No Fears taking the American Staffie out for a walk after dark. But it's also ONE reason we invented arms, too.





From the standpoint of a criminal, it is either the first time they are doing this and their limbic system is high on adrenalin and they are uncertain about what is going on and fearful of the unknown.

If they have done it before, their limbic system is high on adrenalin and (lacking cognitive ability) the limbic system is running a script of how things are supposed to go down.

Own a dog.  Person goes up to the window.  Dog barks.  Person's limbic system goes "gee, dog, uh, that didnt happen the last time" or "gee, dog, might bite me."  The person then goes next door to break in to that house.

Breaking in to a house with people in it unarmed is a small crime, possibly easy to plead down to a misdemeanor and out on probation or a small amount of jail time.

Breaking in to a house with people in it with a gun is a capital crime, a felony, the criminal is considered actively going in to assault the people in the house.  Instead of out on probation, one is facing years of hard time.

Accordingly, the person who breaks in to your house armed is rather rare.  A person breaking in to your house armed or unarmed is usually a case where they are thinking nobody is home.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:31:13 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Cho killed a lot of people with the guns he used, no doubt about it. But the guy that snapped and soaked the front door of the Happy Land Night Club with gasoline in the Bronx killed 83 people. Whether you have guns or not, if you are hell bent on killing people, you are going to.


Good point.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to lockedaway)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:36:09 PM   
MasterDesire


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline 		Let us not foget one thing  This person was very smart  He planned this to perfection  He did what he needed to to get the reaction from the US public that he wanted  Even thought he is dead, his name will never be forgotten in US history. Anyone can get a gun a Long gun or a pistol. The form you sign to buy a gun only implies the person signing it is telling the truth. Yes in most state's you need a permit to carry and most cases you need to appear before a gun board or take certain training specific to the reason for carrying. WE ALL need to remember if someone is going to created a tragety and make a name for themselves most likley it will happen. I am a former officer and I can tell you that if given the same situation on any campus or in any mall or any public building I wold hope that either a retired or current officer or some one witht he training to handle the situation would be there. You never know how you will react when you have another human being in your sights. All the training in the world will only help you decide to SHOOT or DONT SHOOT. But , that training is only is simulation not real. This world is not as safe as we all think, or would like to think. I would love to be able to walk out my door and not lock it and never worry if anything would be missing. I dont see that ever happening in any country. I can promise you one thing a person with a knife is jsut as dangerous if not more so than a person with a gun. Please  all of us need to take a second look around us never assume we will never be hurt. Safety is paramount in life as it is here in this life.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:38:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		This person had a disease called schitzophrenia. Many of his fellow students feel part of the tragedy of this all is that his life was lost too. Memorials are being left for him also and his family has my deepest sympathies.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MasterDesire)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:38:58 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
While I agree with your post, MasterDesire, I view this the same way I view terrorist actions.

They are done to make us all change our lives and drop our principles in the interest of safety.

Life is inherently dangerous and unfair, but if we give up our principles and our beliefs and the things which unite us as a species, the terrorists and the sick fuckers who kill students have won.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MasterDesire)
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RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:48:05 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
the facts of how to prevent home invasion


if fear of getting shot isnt enough of a deterant then no wall is bigg or high enough


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:48:10 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		http://abcnews.go.com/Health/VATech/story?id=3050483&page=1




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:50:03 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

They are done to make us all change our lives and drop our principles in the interest of safety.



unfortunately it works too....  when i was a kid my parents never locked anything and now everything has to be locked with dogs etc.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:50:26 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
the facts of how to prevent home invasion


if fear of getting shot isnt enough of a deterant then no wall is bigg or high enough



Do you have one of those signs on your door that says

"Trespassers will be shot.  Survivors will be shot a second time?"

Or is this person trying to break into your house forced to rely on ESP to know whether you have a gun or not?

I am not saying dont have a gun.  I was talking about why a dog is a deterrent.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 7:58:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
the facts of how to prevent home invasion


if fear of getting shot isnt enough of a deterant then no wall is bigg or high enough



Do you have one of those signs on your door that says

"Trespassers will be shot.  Survivors will be shot a second time?"

Or is this person trying to break into your house forced to rely on ESP to know whether you have a gun or not?

I am not saying dont have a gun.  I was talking about why a dog is a deterrent.

Sinergy



big 100 pound dogs are deterants even with people with guns because guns make loud bangs to kill them and draws attention.  and that is the only way to get around a big dog.

you cant put a sign up like that here for a couple reasons.  first you do not want to challenge them, that is a bad idea, second it does not look good in court when their attorney says you were a gun waiting for an opportunity.

Much like the "beware of dog sign".  in court its "so you know you have a vicious dog then".  then the thu thug can turn around and sue you for dripping your blood on his clothes and ruining them....   well maybe not quite that bad.

Best thing is just no trespaaing nothing else.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 8:04:06 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

big 100 pound dogs are deterants even with people with guns because guns make loud bangs to kill them and draws attention.  and that is the only way to get around a big dog.



My point goes to the psychology of a potential criminal.  A dog is an added level of trouble and problem which they did not calculate in their plans, so they go somewhere else.

Even if the dog is a rat on steroids.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 8:15:43 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

big 100 pound dogs are deterants even with people with guns because guns make loud bangs to kill them and draws attention.  and that is the only way to get around a big dog.



My point goes to the psychology of a potential criminal.  A dog is an added level of trouble and problem which they did not calculate in their plans, so they go somewhere else.

Even if the dog is a rat on steroids.

Sinergy


yeh they knock at your door like salesman to test and see if there is a dog, that is why i also have an "absolutely no soliciting" sign as well.  that way my neighbors know if they arent wearing ups or i am not out there to greet them there is a problem lol


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 8:26:02 PM   
ostrichman1951


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		 juliaoceana said, "People should learn about the adrenaline response, the facts of how to prevent home invasion, and many other things, instead of relying on a handgun to be their sole protection." ..

The problem here is that we now have a couple of generations of sheeple that have been taught and brainwashed to "not hit back" (self-defense).. they've been "drugged" down .. and "de-balled" psychologically and I doubt they even HAVE an adrenaline response .. to obediently let some scumsucking vermin line them up against a wall so he could shoot them one by one?  How about ducking and dodging and how about everyone pick up a chair and throw it at the SOB?.. and start running and scattering around the room creating chaos for him to deal with? .. and how about going AFTER the MF (flight 93)? .. I have sympathy for his family, but no sympathy for that worthless piece of human feces .. too bad he wasn't run over by a garbage truck a couple of days before that .. but at least he's outta the "gene" pool and won't breed any more of his filth ..
Too bad just one of those students or teachers didn't have a hand gun ..

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Gun Control And Tragedy - 4/20/2007 8:29:50 PM   
ostrichman1951


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		Here's a fun one..I love it:

shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien home invaders
NRA files
Butte Montana
November 5, 2006

Home invasion gone wrong for criminals.

Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez 23 and Enrico Garza 26, probably
believed they would easily overpower a home alone 11 year old Patricia
Harrington after her father had left their two story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things, they were in Montana
and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.
Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the
front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and
grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the
first to catch a near point blank blast of buck shot from the 11 year
olds knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and
genitals. When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to
the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to
death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber
handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. The victim, 50 year
old David Burien, was not so lucky as he died from stab wounds to the
chest.

(in reply to ostrichman1951)
Profile   Post #: 340
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