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Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 5:54:36 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		It has been my belief that effective communication is the responsibilities of all parties involved.  This responsibility does not rest solely on either the listeners or speakers.  The advice given most often on this board is to communicate.  However, I have noticed that good communication skills are things many people lack. 

One of the biggest things I have learned in recent years is to not act on assumptions before verifying if they are accurate.  I don’t assume that I know what someone else is feeling or thinking.  Improving on this one skill with my Lord has dramatically increased our ability to effectively communicate.

What are some of the communication skills that you put to use in your interactions with others?  How have they benefited you in your relationships?  What other skills are you trying to learn?


Knight’s kyra
 
*edited to fix font size



< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 4/22/2007 6:20:08 AM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:09:19 AM   
cinnfulhussy


Posts: 135
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline 		Besides what you mentioned, my largest obstacle to overcome with communiction is holding feelings in.  I have a bad tendency to not want to reveal any negative emotions or feelings so instead of effectively communicating them and having them resolved, I tend to bottle them up until they explode.  I've been working on ways to express myself respectfully and truthfully, but its an imperfect work in progress.  On thing I have learmed, is to take a time out before discussing something that is bothering me.  I react emotionally at first and get nothing accomplished.  I often need to take the time to sit down and write out my feelings, organize them and see them on paper.  This usually helps clarify what is at the bottom of all the emotion and turmoil and allows me to then communicate without bursting into tears.


_____________________________

Contrary to popular belief, slavery is not the path of least resistance.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:13:57 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		kyra, I am soooooo NOT the world's best communicator.....as is well evidenced by my many failures at such on these boards...lol.

I find that my biggest failings in communicating generally happen when I don't put in the necessary time to think about how best to word the thoughts I am trying to convey.....or when I react off the cuff and the end result is an emotional response.

I find that I can communicate far better when I remember to attack the problem and not the personality. Sometimes that is a very difficult thing to do, whether it be on a message board or in real life. Sometimes the first thought is "OMG you're such a fucking asshole" or "Hey stupid, here's your sign!". If I react from those perspectives....well, as you can imagine, communication usually fails before it begins.

I find that I communicate much better in real life face to face interactions....although that doesn't necessarily mean conversation. Sometimes in my relationships a tool that has helped me greatly to  communicate my thoughts or feelings is to write them down. I am one of those kinds of people that in spoken conversation can go in 15 directions depending on what is said.....things pop in my head and I want to go down those roads....sometimes taking me far off course than I originally intended. I find that if I right things down it allows me the time to carefully choose my words based on what is important to me....analyze it a bit to get a feel for how it comes across....and I can get my whole points addressed without veering off course. That in hand can then be the starting point for meaningful communication.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:21:24 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		Kyra,
It seems that breakdown in communication often happens during arguments, for Master and me this used to be quite common.

Below is something I wrote late last year about this subject:

Communication During Arguments
Nothing is trivial when arguments are involved. In most cases the ensuing argument is actually over something deeper than the incident itself. Arguing is not always 'bad. What is 'bad' is using poor communication skills during an argument.

Characteristics Of Bad Communications During Arguments
1. Truth: Insisting that you are "right" and the other person is "wrong".
2. Blame: Saying that the problem is the other person's fault.
3. Martydom: Claiming that you're an innocent victim.
4. Put-down:Implying that the other person is a loser because he or she "always" or "never" does certain things.
5. Hopelessness: Giving up and insisting that there is no point in trying.
6. Demandingness:Insisting that you ar entitled to better treatment but you refuse to ask for what you want in a direct, straightforward way.
7. Denial: Insisting that you don't feel angry, hurt, or sad when you really do.
8. Passive Aggression: Pouting, withdrawing or saying nothing. Or, storming out of the room, hitting intimate objects or slam doors.
9. Self-blame: Instead of dealing with the problem, acting as if you're an awful, terrible person.
10. Helping: Instead of hearing how depressed, hurt, or angry the other person feels, you try to "solve the problem" or "help" him or her.
11. Sarcasm: Your words or tone of voice convey tension or hostility which you aren't openly acknowledging. 
12. Scapegoating: Suggesting that the other person has "a problem" and that you're sane, happy, and uninvolved in the conflict.
13. Defensiveness: Refusal to admit any wrong-doing or imperfection.
14. Counterattack: Instead of acknowledging how the other person feels, you respond to their criticism by critizing them.
15. Diversion: Instead of dealing with how you both feel in the here-and-now, you list grievances about past injustices.
Arguments can have positive ramifications and becoming aware of these poor communication traits is the first step in better communication during arguments.


_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:24:43 AM   
Dastardly


Posts: 58
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		No mindreading - too often people think they know what someone is thinking and they act on that, as opposed to stopping and asking the person exactly what they are thinking - mindreading leads you into all kinds of problems so I'd agree with kyraofMists on that one


And questioning techniques are really useful - knowing how to ask questions can change dramatically the answers you get. Closed questions get you yes or no answers, assumptive questions lead you to the answer you think you're going to receive. Open and probing questioning is a technique that's really useful to learn.


_____________________________

'Out of sorrow entire worlds have been built
Out of longing great wonders have been willed'
Nick Cave

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:25:53 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		My thoughts tend to resemble Erin's in many ways.

I am working on patience. Realizing that my truth isn't everyone's truth and that doesn't make me or them right or wrong, just different.

I am trying very hard to avoid the "reaction" style of communication, especially in written word. Face to face I communicate less with words and more with expression and body language. That may have alot to do with years of working with animals. Most of my work with horses especially is body language.

I have realized that my sense of humour just does not translate well via written word. I know when I am writing something I am smiling and writing with a lighthearted intent. Those reading it do not know that. Especially if they have not read alot of what I have written and realized that ALOT of what I write is with that intent. The smiley face things can be my friend.

Another thing I have been working on is my own hot buttons. Sometimes the things that drive me most crazy and make me want to react, are MY ISSUES, and I need to just walk away from any communication at all. Or at least think alot before just flinging words out there.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:35:38 AM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
Communication During Arguments
Nothing is trivial when arguments are involved. In most cases the ensuing argument is actually over something deeper than the incident itself. Arguing is not always 'bad. What is 'bad' is using poor communication skills during an argument.

Characteristics Of Bad Communications During Arguments
1. Truth: Insisting that you are "right" and the other person is "wrong".
2. Blame: Saying that the problem is the other person's fault.
3. Martydom: Claiming that you're an innocent victim.
4. Put-down:Implying that the other person is a loser because he or she "always" or "never" does certain things.
5. Hopelessness: Giving up and insisting that there is no point in trying.
6. Demandingness:Insisting that you ar entitled to better treatment but you refuse to ask for what you want in a direct, straightforward way.
7. Denial: Insisting that you don't feel angry, hurt, or sad when you really do.
8. Passive Aggression: Pouting, withdrawing or saying nothing. Or, storming out of the room, hitting intimate objects or slam doors.
9. Self-blame: Instead of dealing with the problem, acting as if you're an awful, terrible person.
10. Helping: Instead of hearing how depressed, hurt, or angry the other person feels, you try to "solve the problem" or "help" him or her.
11. Sarcasm: Your words or tone of voice convey tension or hostility which you aren't openly acknowledging. 
12. Scapegoating: Suggesting that the other person has "a problem" and that you're sane, happy, and uninvolved in the conflict.
13. Defensiveness: Refusal to admit any wrong-doing or imperfection.
14. Counterattack: Instead of acknowledging how the other person feels, you respond to their criticism by critizing them.
15. Diversion: Instead of dealing with how you both feel in the here-and-now, you list grievances about past injustices.
Arguments can have positive ramifications and becoming aware of these poor communication traits is the first step in better communication during arguments.



This is an excellent list....  for me, I would rather put it in the affirmative instead of in the negative.  These guidelines are not ONLY helpful and useful in arguments but ALWAYS !!

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to Elegant)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:47:53 AM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Another thing I have been working on is my own hot buttons. Sometimes the things that drive me most crazy and make me want to react, are MY ISSUES, and I need to just walk away from any communication at all. Or at least think alot before just flinging words out there.



Hot buttons............
I have had 2 dramatic real life hot button expereinces over the last 1 1/2 yrs.... and they were MY ISSUES.  I didnt rrealize the first time what was happening, only that I was so inflamed I could not breath.
MY REACTION, not anything to do with anyone else, but I sure did find myself blaming another until I realized and took time to sort everything out AND claim my own shit.
 
Message boards are for crap trying to figure out someone else's motive or intent, even with emoticons.  If we could devise our own and use them appropriately, maybe our communication might not get so pissy on message boards.

I dont know anyone on these boards in real life....  well yes, I do know several including the ex and his girl, and several I have bottomed to....
and the be truthfully honest, from what I read, there are only a handful I would reach out to and have and with no response given, so I really do say FY to them. 

So I read just to respond with MOHO and get some feel for a topic I am seriously thinking about.   Sometimes I wonder why the hell I am even here....much like reading my junk mail.  This aught to in flame folk I am sure....  candid Opinion is all.

out and over for better things in life to do 

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 6:50:49 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		It's easy enough to say that the burden of communication lies equally on both sides but I don't believe this is true. The fact that the power in the relationship is on one side means that it is more difficult for a subtype to screw up her courage and confront her dom. And if, when she does do so, he ignores what she says and disregards her feelings, it becomes that much more difficult to bring the unpleasant subject up again.

I'm going through that here. He's angry about something. I don't disagree that he has a right to be upset in this circumstance but his anger is preventing him from hearing what I'm saying. All he wants is for me to agree with him about what I should do only I can't. I can't agree because he's disregarding the feelings of another person involved in this matter and I can't agree that this is the appropriate response. I want all of us to sit down and talk about possible solutions that everyone would agree with. I said so last night when he stopped ranting for a moment. He didn't appear to even hear what I said.

So what do I do? Repeat what I said in response to his every rant? If he isn't interested in hearing me, I can't force him to listen effectively. All I can do is shut down in the meantime in order to lessen the effect his anger has on me and hope that when/if he calms down we can discuss it. But last night, every time he said we should discuss it, he really meant that I should do what he said and believe that it is the right thing to do. Which I don't.

(in reply to myobedience)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 7:24:31 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I was just outside walking the dogs thinking about this.

While I agree to a point with the fact that sometimes the responsibility lies more heavily on one person or the other I have to say that I do believe that it is a joint responsibility. For one person to say, "I told him or her and they just will not listen!" and throw up their hands and quit is a cop out.

If you are going to have a sucessful relationship, whatever the type..family, work, friends, whatever...... with someone you simily MUST find an effective way to communicate with them. If you cannot do so, then the relationship will desinegrate and will eventually end.

The only time I can accept that one person carries more responsibility than the other is when it is not two consenting adults, example: parent and child or when one adult is simply mentally unable to take responsibility for themself.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 7:37:19 AM   
RPdom


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline
One of the best threads I have read in a lone time. Elegant the guidelines you posted are right on. However I would be willing to bet that we all fail at least one of these areas from time to time.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 7:46:15 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for this informative thread.......there is a lot of room for my personal improvement when communicating.  The list is very good to keep myself in check.

Thanks for posting the thread and please pardon my lack of any real contribution to it.  I am eagerly awaiting what others might add.

It is already listed as a favorite and a  source on reference on my computer :)

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 4/22/2007 7:58:34 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 7:55:26 AM   
WilliamWizer


Posts: 223
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		I'm ashamed to say that at one point or another during my life I have failed at all of them... more times I dare to count. but I try to improve it and have patience when an argument happens.

_____________________________

There's only two rules for a sub:
- she can do anything her Master didn't forbid her.
- she only needs to do what her Master told her to do.

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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:04:39 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cinnfulhussy

Besides what you mentioned, my largest obstacle to overcome with communiction is holding feelings in.  I have a bad tendency to not want to reveal any negative emotions or feelings so instead of effectively communicating them and having them resolved, I tend to bottle them up until they explode.  I've been working on ways to express myself respectfully and truthfully, but its an imperfect work in progress.  On thing I have learmed, is to take a time out before discussing something that is bothering me.  I react emotionally at first and get nothing accomplished.  I often need to take the time to sit down and write out my feelings, organize them and see them on paper.  This usually helps clarify what is at the bottom of all the emotion and turmoil and allows me to then communicate without bursting into tears.



learning to communicate when one feels negatively or or about a negative issue... is very challanging.  But it can be done.  Good for you for looking and  finding ways to do it

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cinnfulhussy)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:07:08 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastardly
And questioning techniques are really useful - knowing how to ask questions can change dramatically the answers you get. Closed questions get you yes or no answers, assumptive questions lead you to the answer you think you're going to receive. Open and probing questioning is a technique that's really useful to learn.


OH yes.. this is a biggie... asking questions instead of jumping to assumptions.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:35:39 AM   
m0rgan


Posts: 403
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		i guess it is more important to try to be good at communicating, if you don't succeed, no matter. it's wanting to try that is more important, in my view!

_____________________________


download this, the girls voice will make you damp--->

http://www.saab.com/main/GLOBAL/en/download_release_me.shtml


a loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou,
beside me, in the wilderness, were paradise enough!

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:37:36 AM   
BitchGoddessD


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		I struggle with how to get submissives to communicate their true feelings.  I know its a two way street.  I don't make assumptions.  I create an open atmosphere for communication.  I even sit down with a submissive on a regular basis and ask straightforward questions.  I encourage both written and verbal forms of communication.  Yet I still don't feel that I'm getting the whole truth.  I really want that intimate connection.  I am so tired of "whatever Mistress wants."  It's a cop-out.  What I want is the answer to My question.  How can trust survive in such an atmosphere.  I welcome any suggestions.  Obviously I find this topic frustrating.  I know that I am describing My experiences only.

_____________________________

A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
Jackie Robinson

Just call me D

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:45:38 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		I am so sensitive to remarks made to me i overreact and then the communication falls apart.  I am learning to take a step back and not jump to the wrong conclusions about any remarks made to or about me.  To realize  I may be looking at it in a different way than they meant. 

As was stated we are not mind readers.

And I am learning to ask that person nicely what he/she meant not scarcasticaly as I used too.  This forum has taught me a lot.  I still have a long way to go but at least I now know the direction to go in.  Thank you all for your teachings and your patiance with me.


patina

_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:51:15 AM   
tulinwl


Posts: 37
Joined: 3/4/2007
Status: offline 		I didn't realize how quickly I rush to judgement about the actions and/or lives of others - until recently. I became conscious of my behavior in my real time life through my bdsm education and practice.  I have put steps in to place to correct it - I have felt improvement in myself and my relationships.

_____________________________



tulinwl


(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Effective Communication - 4/22/2007 8:57:07 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

What are some of the communication skills that you put to use in your interactions with others? How have they benefited you in your relationships? What other skills are you trying to learn?


One of the things I try to do is be as concrete in my communication as possible.  This is a tough one for me because I can be very obtuse and abstract, which is fine for writing theoretical academic papers but doesn't really work when you're actually trying to talk to someone.  So, I'm always questioning myself, "what do I really mean by that, in concrete practical terms." 

I also need to work on brevity.  Any honest attempt at communicating can misfire if its couched in so many words that the point gets lost.  Going on and on about something rarely helps matters, in my opinion as I know that I have a hard time really focusing for more than a few minutes at a time unless I'm taking notes.

Staying focused on the other person and what they're actually saying rather than whats going on in my head, and my reactions is another thing I have a hard time with.  I think of it as a boundary issue and I have to remember to keep a reign on my projections.

One of the things I'm good at is thinking before I speak.  I'll take a long time to figure out whether or not something is a problem that needs to be dealt with and why I think its a problem.   And I do tend to point out potential issues as soon as they begin to emerge.   This is especially important in D/s and SM interactions because a lot of times I am perfectly content doing something even when I don't like it or its hurtful but can't predict how its going to turn out in the long run.   


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to kyraofMists)
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