RE: Effective Communication

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His1kitten -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 8:59:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant Kyra, It seems that breakdown in communication often happens during arguments, for Master and me this used to be quite common. Below is something I wrote late last year about this subject: Communication During Arguments Nothing is trivial when arguments are involved. In most cases the ensuing argument is actually over something deeper than the incident itself. Arguing is not always 'bad. What is 'bad' is using poor communication skills during an argument. Characteristics Of Bad Communications During Arguments 1. Truth: Insisting that you are "right" and the other person is "wrong". 2. Blame: Saying that the problem is the other person's fault. 3. Martydom: Claiming that you're an innocent victim. 4. Put-down:Implying that the other person is a loser because he or she "always" or "never" does certain things. 5. Hopelessness: Giving up and insisting that there is no point in trying. 6. Demandingness:Insisting that you ar entitled to better treatment but you refuse to ask for what you want in a direct, straightforward way. 7. Denial: Insisting that you don't feel angry, hurt, or sad when you really do. 8. Passive Aggression: Pouting, withdrawing or saying nothing. Or, storming out of the room, hitting intimate objects or slam doors. 9. Self-blame: Instead of dealing with the problem, acting as if you're an awful, terrible person. 10. Helping: Instead of hearing how depressed, hurt, or angry the other person feels, you try to "solve the problem" or "help" him or her. 11. Sarcasm: Your words or tone of voice convey tension or hostility which you aren't openly acknowledging. 12. Scapegoating: Suggesting that the other person has "a problem" and that you're sane, happy, and uninvolved in the conflict. 13. Defensiveness: Refusal to admit any wrong-doing or imperfection. 14. Counterattack: Instead of acknowledging how the other person feels, you respond to their criticism by critizing them. 15. Diversion: Instead of dealing with how you both feel in the here-and-now, you list grievances about past injustices. Arguments can have positive ramifications and becoming aware of these poor communication traits is the first step in better communication during arguments. Elegant, that was excellent! If i may, i would like to print that and hang it up, for that is something that can help not only me, but everyone in our household. Many thanks.

juliaoceania -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 9:06:07 AM)
quote: What are some of the communication skills that you put to use in your interactions with others? How have they benefited you in your relationships? When I am heavily discussing something I find that I mirror back what was said to me, especially if I found it to be hurtful. Often what we hear is not what was said, especially when the topic of conversation is a "hot button". Mirroring back is a very effective tool to keep people from harboring resentments based upon misunderstanding. I have learned a lot about taking responsibility for my own emotions in recent years too. No one can make me feel anything, my feelings are my responsibility. I got into a bad habit with my former dominant of universalizing my feelings so that they would not "offend" him. In other words I would not take ownership of them because I found my feelings were more "acceptable" to him if I used that technique to relate them. My Daddy is the opposite. When conversation gets heated it is hard to remember to take ownership for one's feelings, mirror back what is said to you based upon what you think you heard, not assuming that you know how another person feels, and other behaviors that cut down on good effective communication. I try very hard to employ these communication techniques, but at times I fail... particularly with my UM, who seems to know all my buttons (teenagers...smiles). I find that the way my Daddy and I communicate has been helpful to me in all my interactions, because we really use those tools I mentioned. quote: What other skills are you trying to learn? Now I will admit my communication Achille's heel, I sometimes interupt. My Daddy is very deliberate in how he words things, and I will assume he is finished with a thought and will begin to say something... this is more pronounced in our phone conversations because I have no physical cues that he is not finished speaking. I am working on this very hard, but I still do it at times.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 9:07:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 So what do I do? Repeat what I said in response to his every rant? If he isn't interested in hearing me, I can't force him to listen effectively. All I can do is shut down in the meantime in order to lessen the effect his anger has on me and hope that when/if he calms down we can discuss it. But last night, every time he said we should discuss it, he really meant that I should do what he said and believe that it is the right thing to do. Which I don't. Timing is`also so very important as you infer. There have been times when I have`asked to table the discussion until a better time since we were clearly not in place to have a productive conversation. He doesn't hold on to anger so a day or two gives us space to both have better perspective. In the end we both want to be understood and heard. What is hard is that I may do something, but that won't mean I believe it is the the "right" thing to do. If I think it is ethically wrong for me, a personal and not universal assessment, I just won't do it -- and if I put it that way we will be OK although that is it's own conversational journey. If I think the something won't be helpful I will probably do it anyway, but that won't change my point of view. And there we need to have space to agree to disagree. To be two different human beings. The other thing I'd add to this conversation on effective communication is that I have come to believe that I don't want all of my feelings. And with additional perspective I have learned to change some of them. To transform them. To not be attached to them. Detachment. Impermanence. Compassion. The second is to be really clear what is a feeling and what is a thought -- as I said somewhere else, "I feel you're a shit" is not a feeling at all. It is a judgment, assessment, critique, etc. "I feel sad" is a feeling. Understanding the difference has been really crucial for me.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 9:35:37 AM)
i have been married awhile now so i think i can say that how my husband and i decided to argue has been helpful. we saw that we needed to do something different because when we would fight we would tear each other up. <it was bad> i was in my VERY early twenies he in his mid twenties. we came up with some non-negotiable "fight rules" and during a fight we were allowed to say <if there had been an infraction> no fair or fight fair ....but were not allowed to say anything else about the infraction...so our own made up rules were/are no name calling...no hitting...no bringing up something else during the "discussion"..... no attempts at intimidation..... it wasnt a huge long list....and one other thing we agreed one...after spendinf time with other young married couples we noticed alot of "bad mouthing" went on.... we both didnt really care for it much so we talked about it and decided we would not do that...we would NOT talk bad about each other to anybody...and wouldnt participate in husband/wife bashings<it happens, it does> or tell those God awful husband and/or wife jokes....well that was 24 years ago ...and we are still best friends and married...LOL go figure... we just kinda kept talkin to each other and figured it out along the way....(btw we dated for 6 months and got married ...LOL)

mynded -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 9:42:34 AM)
Effective communication is something I really really have to work at. Denial and feeling my contributions arent important holds me back more times than not. Feeling its better to remain silent, etc... I will continue to read and try to improve myself in this area with the occasional post in the threads to spread my wings and try.

Elegant -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 9:46:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: His1kitten quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant Kyra, It seems that breakdown in communication often happens during arguments, for Master and me this used to be quite common. Below is something I wrote late last year about this subject: Communication During Arguments Nothing is trivial when arguments are involved. In most cases the ensuing argument is actually over something deeper than the incident itself. Arguing is not always 'bad. What is 'bad' is using poor communication skills during an argument. Characteristics Of Bad Communications During Arguments 1. Truth: Insisting that you are "right" and the other person is "wrong". 2. Blame: Saying that the problem is the other person's fault. 3. Martydom: Claiming that you're an innocent victim. 4. Put-down:Implying that the other person is a loser because he or she "always" or "never" does certain things. 5. Hopelessness: Giving up and insisting that there is no point in trying. 6. Demandingness:Insisting that you ar entitled to better treatment but you refuse to ask for what you want in a direct, straightforward way. 7. Denial: Insisting that you don't feel angry, hurt, or sad when you really do. 8. Passive Aggression: Pouting, withdrawing or saying nothing. Or, storming out of the room, hitting intimate objects or slam doors. 9. Self-blame: Instead of dealing with the problem, acting as if you're an awful, terrible person. 10. Helping: Instead of hearing how depressed, hurt, or angry the other person feels, you try to "solve the problem" or "help" him or her. 11. Sarcasm: Your words or tone of voice convey tension or hostility which you aren't openly acknowledging. 12. Scapegoating: Suggesting that the other person has "a problem" and that you're sane, happy, and uninvolved in the conflict. 13. Defensiveness: Refusal to admit any wrong-doing or imperfection. 14. Counterattack: Instead of acknowledging how the other person feels, you respond to their criticism by critizing them. 15. Diversion: Instead of dealing with how you both feel in the here-and-now, you list grievances about past injustices. Arguments can have positive ramifications and becoming aware of these poor communication traits is the first step in better communication during arguments. Elegant, that was excellent! If i may, i would like to print that and hang it up, for that is something that can help not only me, but everyone in our household. Many thanks. Print away!

BitchGoddessD -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 10:08:01 AM)
Thank-you for your insights mynded. Do continue to work on expressing yourself. I know I am not the only Dominant who wants to hear what a submissive has to say. What is done with the information is for the Dominant to decide.

kyraofMists -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 11:22:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitchGoddessD Thank-you for your insights mynded. Do continue to work on expressing yourself. I know I am not the only Dominant who wants to hear what a submissive has to say. What is done with the information is for the Dominant to decide. Your last sentence is one place that I know I used to get hung up on and in reading the boards it tends to be a sticking point for others as well. I know part of my challenge was that I grew up with a parent that didn't know how to say "no" even if it was not a good decision for us or the family. I learned to filter my questions and only ask the things that were most important to me and do without other things. It took me some time to gain trust in the fact that my Lord is quite capable of saying no and will do so in spite of how much I may want something. I know that he doesn't really like saying no, but he will make the decisions that are best for the family. It was a matter of learning to trust that he will make the best decision for the family even if that means denying one of us of what we want in that moment. Knight's kyra

sublizzie -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 11:31:21 AM)
~fast reply~ I haven't seen this mentioned in what I've read so far.... The person trying to communicate (especially if the person is me) has already thought through everything and has all of the outline in their mind. So they (I!) will skip some of the minor details and just give the highlights. The problem is the other person doesn't know which details weren't mentioned so they don't really have as complete an explanation as I think I have given. It's not intentional. It's particularly difficult if one is trying to communicate with someone you know well enough that generally you can skip the details and just go with major points. But it doesn't always work that way. Another thing to mention is that people "hear" differently. Some people call them communication styles. I just figure people have grids that they hear through so sometimes what really is straight forward gets into someone's hearing grid and gets skewed all out of shape. It's almost never the hearer's fault. It's just part of their emotional make up. Yes, they need to learn to hear without the grid, but in the meantime you work with what you've got. Whether I'm the talker or the hearer I try to put things in different words coming from different angles until my point is well communicated. Saying the same words over and over isn't going to do that. Sometimes it's not because someone is too stubborn to listen or too stupid to hear. Sometimes it's just mis-communication that needs to be worked on from both sides. Once one has done that, then the relationship bond becomes stronger and more enduring. Just my thoughts....

kyraofMists -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 11:34:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Now I will admit my communication Achille's heel, I sometimes interupt. My Daddy is very deliberate in how he words things, and I will assume he is finished with a thought and will begin to say something... this is more pronounced in our phone conversations because I have no physical cues that he is not finished speaking. I am working on this very hard, but I still do it at times. I struggle with this from the opposite end... Often I have difficulty recalling the words that will adequately express how I am feeling or what I am thinking during a conversation, especially if I am feeling highly emotional or stressed. It will take quite some time to be able to express myself verbally. As a result, I tend to get interrupted quite often and it leaves me with the impression that I have not been heard. I find that if someone engages in active listening or mirroring like you mentioned earlier, it is less of an issue. When I struggle finding the words to express myself, it pushes the button that "I am stupid". That just brings up a whole bunch of different issues that get in the way of effective communication... But that may be another thread. Knight's kyra

kyraofMists -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 11:36:03 AM)
Thank you for sharing that Elegant... I think I will be printing that out too. Knight's kyra

jauntyone -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 11:47:36 AM)
quote: What are some of the communication skills that you put to use in your interactions with others? How have they benefited you in your relationships? What other skills are you trying to learn? Greetings What are some of the skills that I use in my interactions with others? I always try to remember that no one is or will ever be the same as I am; that anytime I talk to another ( in real life or online ) I must remember that they have a differnet perception. I do my best to keep an open mind and to remain pleasant with the other person. I wish you well melissa

subinsa71 -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 12:07:27 PM)
Elegant, Thank you so much for sharing your Communication During Arguments writing, i think it will be very helpful to me in all my relationships, with Master and especially my family who always push my buttons.

SunNMoon -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 12:14:29 PM)
I didn't see this and I might have missed it. When talking about something important it's best to use "I" statements. Such as "I need to talk to you everyday..." vs. "You don't talk to me everyday..." it makes the person not feel targeted. So they will listen to you. I'm still learning how to communicate my feelings and such. I am also going to try to use the tips that were mentioned by everyone. Thank you.

mynded -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 12:42:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Now I will admit my communication Achille's heel, I sometimes interupt. My Daddy is very deliberate in how he words things, and I will assume he is finished with a thought and will begin to say something... this is more pronounced in our phone conversations because I have no physical cues that he is not finished speaking. I am working on this very hard, but I still do it at times. I struggle with this from the opposite end... Often I have difficulty recalling the words that will adequately express how I am feeling or what I am thinking during a conversation, especially if I am feeling highly emotional or stressed. It will take quite some time to be able to express myself verbally. As a result, I tend to get interrupted quite often and it leaves me with the impression that I have not been heard. I find that if someone engages in active listening or mirroring like you mentioned earlier, it is less of an issue. When I struggle finding the words to express myself, it pushes the button that "I am stupid". That just brings up a whole bunch of different issues that get in the way of effective communication... But that may be another thread. Knight's kyra I do that too kyra. Its so unsettling for me to not be able to find the words to adequately describe what i feel or want to say.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 4:59:19 PM)
YOu know I could go on forever about this. And often have. The groundwork for my understanding of communication began at my first peer mediation training at age 12. I didn't get much opportunity to use it in a personal setting until my late teens, but it's withheld the test of time. I just wish people would LET GO- let go of your silly insecurities. Those are the thigns which tell you "don't say that" "I can't ask for that" "I feel bad saying that" "I'm not good if I ask for this" LET GO of all of those weights we put on ourselves and just SAY IT. If you're going to make a relationship work in the long term, it must be as your true self. And that includes all those things you are REALLY thinking and saying, not what your insecurities tell you to screen. I'd say the most essential part is the letting go. There's a lot more to go from there, but until you get that part down, the rest is pretty useless.

aurora31 -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 5:14:36 PM)
I SUCK at communication. As a child and teenager my thoughts were not welcomed in my house I learned to be quiet and not to bring up negative things that has so carried over I fear judgement even though I know I have nothing to fear, I fear that it may lead to an argument of confrontation and I avoid those with all that I am. So I clam up most of the time if I don't talk I can't say something wrong or have the meaning of the words I am saying misunderstood or the intent behind them misinterpreted. In my current dynamic this is all compounded by the fact that I get very little one on one time with Sir to talk to him about my struggles. We are a family and do things as a family including discussing our struggles. I don't know about anyone else but most of the things I struggle with I am embarrassed and get on myself because I know how it should be and I can't live up to it. So for me to have to sit and talk of those things in front of everyone is so very very hard for me to do. So now this has become a struggle for me to open up and share my feelings and struggles in front of the whole house. I really am working on trying to get past this but it has become a very slow tedious process. I only hope and pray that one day I can truly get past this, aurora

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 5:42:34 PM)
Listen. Mirror. Clarify. Ask questions. Focus on the emotions...not the actions. Try to keep the conversation on topic. Be patient. Step away and then come back if the emotions get too hard to handle, either from you or your partner. Know that tabling discussions is ok...but ignoring them is not. Approachthe subject from a different direction if the original didn't work well. Master Fire

His1kitten -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 6:01:17 PM)
During my first marriage it was best to keep quiet and keep all my thoughts and feelings bottled up at all times. With my One, even after 6 years i still find it difficult to break that habit even though He is trying to help. i just feel at times that i don't want to overburden Him, but then it comes down to me being quiet and somewhat withdrawn and then He knows for sure something is up. i guess i just really have to work on that habit. Elegant, thank you kindly for allowing me to print and share your insight.

MaamJay -> RE: Effective Communication (4/22/2007 6:17:20 PM)
Great thread! And yes, thank you Elegant, it was a very succinct list. As slave, my biggest problem is in fact my failing hearing :-( (a nasty side effect of ageing!) i do not hear Master clearly enough sometimes, and apparently, i get an exasperated look on my face. i feel this reflects my exasperation at myself for not hearing and understanding ... He perceives it as exasperation at Him for not having spoken clearly. He accepts my explanation at a logical level ... but the facial expression still annoys Him at a gut reaction level. In fact, that raises a whole different issue in communication ... remember it's at least 90% body language and 10% or less the spoken word. Making sure the two "match up" is SO important. I found the classics on body language by Allan Pease and Desmond Morris useful reading, though I don't agree 100% with them! And BitchGoddessD ... My Domme side is with You! I absolutely HATE "whatever Mistress wants" and I won't accept it from My subs. I tell them it's a cop out for not thinking and if I wanted a non-thinking moron I would have found one! Good luck! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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