quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs


But if someone is physically nonresponsive and literally not aroused, I really can't see how their energy says, "I'm here, I want to be here, I'm joyous about being able to have sex with you."

C~

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
i know men that have cars that they put gas in, pay the insurance and thats all the thought they put into them.
i also know men that baby their cars, they wax and buff their toy, they make sure its running in mint condition, and when ever they get the chance, the take it out on the road and open her up, to see how far and fast shell go.
honestly your post comes off as though you have disdain for the latter type of man, and i dont understand why, because it seems to me that you are alway in here taking a stand for folks to have an open mind about your type of slavery...maybe you could do the same?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Whoa....I think you missed a few "key" words in my post. "If I", "fairly consistent basis", "I would feel as though I", "many Dominants"....

Nowhere did I say "every time" or even "most of the time". Nowhere did I say that orgasm was the end all and be all of sex, or that just bonking isn't fun at times. I'm not sure what I said that tripped your trigger and put you on the defensive but I can assure you that I wasn't trying to tell you "how" to have sex.

As for cheating myself....you'll just have to believe me when I say that I don't cheat myself out of anything in life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it really takes understanding and being able to read a different sort of energy. a physical sexual response does not necessarily equate to enjoying it, wanting to be there, appreciating being used. likewise, lack of a physical sexual response does not necessarily equate to boredom, indifference, or grinning and bearing it. i have never been the type to express sexual fulfillment through arousal...the two are not related for me. but i exude my own energy that says whether i truly want to be there or not. my Master is able to read me well, not perfectly but far better than i ever thought possible for anyone, and he can feel my energy. He knows when i am suffering, and knows when i am yearning and craving it. the differences are found in places other than the vagina.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it really takes understanding and being able to read a different sort of energy. a physical sexual response does not necessarily equate to enjoying it, wanting to be there, appreciating being used. likewise, lack of a physical sexual response does not necessarily equate to boredom, indifference, or grinning and bearing it. i have never been the type to express sexual fulfillment through arousal...the two are not related for me. but i exude my own energy that says whether i truly want to be there or not. my Master is able to read me well, not perfectly but far better than i ever thought possible for anyone, and he can feel my energy. He knows when i am suffering, and knows when i am yearning and craving it. the differences are found in places other than the vagina.

The problem in your description is that wetness, color of the vagina, flushed or physically being hotter, pertrubance of the clitoris from the hood and flesh surrounding it are automatic signs of arousal and enjoyment.  Meaning if there is actual and real enjoyment, desire to be there (as opposed to equally being interested in doing something non sexual like painting the walls), and joyous engagement it will automatically show physically.  Conversely, if there is no physical arousal, then the body is displaying what is actually going on internally with the person (mental arousal setting off a set of triggers physically like dominoes coming down).

My owner wants full engagement, and joyous enjoyment of whats happening - which means if there is joyous enjoyment and that sort of energy it will just display itself quite obviously with certain physical cues.  Thus, he gets what he wants.

C~

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

[:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
i know men that have cars that they put gas in, pay the insurance and thats all the thought they put into them.
i also know men that baby their cars, they wax and buff their toy, they make sure its running in mint condition, and when ever they get the chance, the take it out on the road and open her up, to see how far and fast shell go.
honestly your post comes off as though you have disdain for the latter type of man, and i dont understand why, because it seems to me that you are alway in here taking a stand for folks to have an open mind about your type of slavery...maybe you could do the same?

ok, i'm totally confused here.  This reply says it was in response to me, but i'm not sure it is as it doesn't seem to apply to anything i've said here.  But, if it is[:)]:  First of all, i don't know where in any of my posts here that i have shown disdain for either type of man that you're talking about.  IF i exhibited any disdain at all, it would be toward those individuals who seem to have no understanding as to how anyone could do things differently than they do.  You are correct - i am always "in here taking a stand for folks to have an open mind" - not just about my "type of slavery" (whatever that is), but for everybody's type of slavery/submission.  And as for the example of the two types of men, the latter type would be the one i'd be least likely to show "disdain" for - if i had shown any which i didn't........???????????bewildered in Arkansas[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m18.gif[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

Wildfleurs, what you are saying (in the first paragraph) simply isn't true, and that's what i was attempting to explain in my last post. for some of us, physical response and actual enjoyment are not entertwined. take for example victims of violent rape who become wet or even orgasm...does that mean that they truly wanted to be there, that they wanted what they received? not at all, some people simply respond physically to certain stimuli, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with their pleasure or enjoyment. likewise, some of us experience great fulfillment and enjoyment from sex, but don't have the typical physical responses. doesn't make our enjoyment not real, just different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
being almost nonorgasmic myself, and not really having a burning desire to orgasm or even caring whether or not i'm aroused during sexual activity

quote:

where are the Dominants who simply don't care?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If I could not bring my partner to orgasm on a fairly consistent basis, I would feel as though I was not pleasing them. Most people want to know that their partner desires them and is turned on by them. An orgasm is a physically visible testament of that desire and arousal. I would have to think that many Dominants view their submissives orgasm in much the same way. Wow....I made you have an earth shattering, eyes rolled back in your head, couldn't breath, lost all control of yourself orgasm that probably just registered on a Richter scale somewhere. Validation that I am desirable and skilled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

*fast reply*

Whoa.. at some point this thread turned from an intellectual debate into who is slavier... the chick who can serve without cumming or the chick who cums while serving... why did that happen, do you suppose?

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

*fast reply*

Whoa.. at some point this thread turned from an intellectual debate into who is slavier... the chick who can serve without cumming or the chick who cums while serving... why did that happen, do you suppose?

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

so my questions are basically this....why do so many Dominants care so much about submissive orgasm and arousal? are they not aware that submissives will find pleasure and fulfillment in pleasing them, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wet, throbbing pussy? or is it an ego thing? and most importantly...where are the Dominants who simply don't care?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

Wildfleurs, what you are saying (in the first paragraph) simply isn't true, and that's what i was attempting to explain in my last post. for some of us, physical response and actual enjoyment are not entertwined. take for example victims of violent rape who become wet or even orgasm...does that mean that they truly wanted to be there, that they wanted what they received? not at all, some people simply respond physically to certain stimuli, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with their pleasure or enjoyment. likewise, some of us experience great fulfillment and enjoyment from sex, but don't have the typical physical responses. doesn't make our enjoyment not real, just different.

However earlier in your original post you said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
being almost nonorgasmic myself, and not really having a burning desire to orgasm or even caring whether or not i'm aroused during sexual activity

What I said about arousal is (as far as I know) quite literally true.  The way sexual arousal and enjoyment is displayed is a function of the veins in the pelvic area dialating and filling with blood and opening.  Those processes then cause a reaction of producing fluid that makes the vagina get wet.  It is like a series of domino's that fall that all start with sexual arousal and interest. *

Now you may be cerebally satisfied with being able to provide a service of sex, but thats not what my owner is interested in (again going back to joyful complete embracing of the activity, not just going through the motions).  Cerebral satisfaction gives you what you want, but just wouldn't be what he wants (and for us, since he's my owner, he gets what he wants).

He wants someone who is interested in that particular act (in this situation we are talking about.. he wants someone thats sexually interested and thus aroused), actively desired, fully engaged and actively giving off that energy.  And quite honestly if the woman isn't fully in that particular mindset, then of course the vagina won't get dialated and the automatic series of physical responses won't happen.  Any garden variety pornographic movie shows quite clearly women that can fake the sounds, faces (and even with well placed lube jobs some of the lubrication) but when you see a close up of a grey vagina with a clitoris hidden for weeks... its pretty obvious where their mind, energy, and interest really are.

I think as long as your dynamic works with your owner/daddy then its all good, however since your OP asked for people to explain why some dominants are interested in someone being sexually aroused.... I figured I would answer why my owner wants it that way.

C~

* I can provide some citations for that if you want, I had to refer back to a book or two on my shelf to make sure I wasn't just imagining that what I said wasn't literally biologically correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive


I've been looking at the OP question scrolling by in my window during the day, and imagined that it was about shithead, selfish doms.    And I think the question "where are the Dominants who simply don't care?" makes it seems that way as well.  And that's how most folks on this thread have responded.

But when daddysprop asks this question, I believe she's saying "Are there folks out there who won't project that demand onto a submissive?"  She doesn't orgasm and is OK with that.  And therefore, a dominant who makes his pleasure/ego/control based on her orgasming is setting a bar that 1. she can't reach and 2. she doesn't care about.  She wants pleasure (and gets it).  It's just not about the wetness for her.  When she says her dominant doesn't care about her orgasm, she's stating this as a positive.  Of course, that *looks* like crapitude because the vast majority of us want to orgasm, and want our partner to care about us orgasming.  For her, I think, *not* being attached to her orgasming is a measure of thoughtfulness.

I'm probably stating this in more cuddly terms than daddysprop would, but I wanted to offer this alternative interpretation.

MSS

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

so my questions are basically this....why do so many Dominants care so much about submissive orgasm and arousal? are they not aware that submissives will find pleasure and fulfillment in pleasing them, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wet, throbbing pussy? or is it an ego thing? and most importantly...where are the Dominants who simply don't care?

But when daddysprop asks this question, I believe she's saying "Are there folks out there who won't project that demand onto a submissive?"  She doesn't orgasm and is OK with that.  And therefore, a dominant who makes his pleasure/ego/control based on her orgasming is setting a bar that 1. she can't reach and 2. she doesn't care about.  She wants pleasure (and gets it).  It's just not about the wetness for her.  When she says her dominant doesn't care about her orgasm, she's stating this as a positive.  Of course, that *looks* like crapitude because the vast majority of us want to orgasm, and want our partner to care about us orgasming.  For her, I think, *not* being attached to her orgasming is a measure of thoughtfulness.