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S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/2/2005 4:34:44 PM

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I've mentioned this a few times on the boards. I will switch (to bottom) occasionally for S&M play.

I love it. I never have felt particularly submissive when bottoming in an S&M exchange. In fact, when I'm a bottom in an S&M exchange, I'm usually getting exactly what I want and I feel quite in control. It is usually the result of seducing a top into hurting me. I also tend to co-direct the scene. Note that the tops that I've played with are fine with this and love the interplay.

I'm curious how common/rare this is. I'm not trying to validate my desires nor try and pigeon hole myself. I'm simply trying to find others who might have a similar disposition and hear about how they live it out.

- LA

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RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/2/2005 4:41:46 PM

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I'd guess it's actually not all that unusual. Bottoming in an S&M scene doesn't have to be submitting at all--especially not if you're calling the shots. I don't know too many doms or dommes who would admit that they enjoy it, but they must be out there. For one thing, there are plenty of people who enjoy bottoming in a scene but don't consider themselves submissive OR dominant. That means you don't have to be wired for d/s in order to be wired for S&M.

Lam

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/2/2005 5:58:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
I'd guess it's actually not all that unusual. Bottoming in an S&M scene doesn't have to be submitting at all--especially not if you're calling the shots.

Well I know that bottoming in an S&M scene doesn't have to be submitting. That's what I said in my original post.

quote:

I don't know too many doms or dommes who would admit that they enjoy it, but they must be out there.

Admit? What is there to admit? Like it would be a shameful thing for a dominant person to take charge of their sexuality and ensure that they are pleasured in all the possible ways that they can get pleasure? I don't think it's a question of admitting anything.

quote:

For one thing, there are plenty of people who enjoy bottoming in a scene but don't consider themselves submissive OR dominant.

Really? I thought there might be. This is why I started this post. I'd like to know how people live this out. Do you have anything to contribute about that?

quote:

That means you don't have to be wired for d/s in order to be wired for S&M.

Yeah. I got that part. Thanks ;)

But that raises another question… why is it that in collarme profile options, there are the labels Dominant, Submissive, Slave or Switch? And why is switch so often called "the ones in between Dominant & submissive"? If I were to identify as a switch, people would automatically assume that I was a D/s switch and not an S&M switch.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/2/2005 7:00:15 PM

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Yanno, it's hard for me to continue a conversation like this. You asked how common or rare this is, and I gave you reasons why I don't think it's so rare at all. I don't really understand what you're objecting too.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/2/2005 8:34:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yanno, it's hard for me to continue a conversation like this. You asked how common or rare this is, and I gave you reasons why I don't think it's so rare at all. I don't really understand what you're objecting too.

Well, primarily, it's that your response really did not address the issue here.

Ok so you addressed the rare/not rare part. You said it was common but then you said that you didn't know many who would admit it. So if they won't admit it, how do you know about this? I'm asking honestly. I mean it's one thing to say "oh yeah! tons of people are doing it". For the year that I've been on these boards, I've run into one other Domme who seems to share this need to bottom without submitting. So where are all the others?

I'm sure your heart was in the right place when you tried to make me feel like it was ok for me to "admit this". It came across somewhat condescending and actually rubbed me the wrong way, which is perhaps why my tone was ever so slightly... bitchy ;)

I stated pretty clearly what I was looking for:

quote:

I'm curious how common/rare this is. I'm not trying to validate my desires nor try and pigeon hole myself. I'm simply trying to find others who might have a similar disposition and hear about how they live it out.

Let me put it in a more explicit way. I'm looking for perspectives of other Dominants who bottom in S&M without submitting, or people that can give me information on this because they play with one, chat with one, etc.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/16/2005 11:40:32 AM

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I use the term bottoming Domme when people ask me what I mean when i say I switch. I love the pain, i just dont like the submission. Its just not my kink in a bottoming dynamic. Its not me being hypocritcal, its just how it is, im not wired for submission, just as some one else is not wired for pain.

that said, I have been owned in the past and it was mildly amusing. I also quite happily role play it on occassion, but that is all it is a role; its just a game to me. Im not belittling submission, i adore the control from the other end of the whip, its just simply not part of my kink.

I will do what im asked to enable to scene to flow and of course being forced can be terribly fun, but equaly i have been known to get out of the ropes and try to kick the top. I find its varries depending on what I want and what they like.

I think it is quite common, in fact most of the tops ive played with have felt the whip at some point. I think it gives one a nice perspective and if you enjoy it then why not do it?

Prosperine
xXx

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/17/2005 5:38:33 PM

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Thanks Prosperine. I share your perspective and it sums up pretty much how I see my desires.

Oddly enough, I'd say the Doms that I know that bottom to me are actually looking for some submission, not masochism. The other Doms that I know don't bottom at all. And as for the Dommes, the ones that I do know that switch now and then do it on an D/s level as well.

As I said, now other then you, I only ever encountered one other Domme who expressed this in these forums or in RL.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Prosperine)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/18/2005 2:31:20 PM

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quote:

I love it. I never have felt particularly submissive when bottoming in an S&M exchange.

M'Lady A

Thank You for such a brilliant subject.

I feel the same way, but in reverse... I enjoy Topping, but never feel particularly Dominant. I think that it isn't that openly common - because people are still ridiculed or blasted for admitting said desire.

I know that as a submissive, its something I have been told I am wrong about. Or that its just 'Topping from below'... I don't think that many people understand the concept of the situation.

If I enjoy Topping, doesn't mean I am less submissive - doesn't make me a switch in my life - but I enjoy switching during SM play. Big difference.

And if I am allowed, I don't see why it should bother others. But it seems it does.

Peace and Love

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/18/2005 9:04:56 PM

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I'm a bit of the opposite in two ways- one, I'm a sub interested in the Domming- and two, the interest in switching is more along the lines of D/s as opposed to S&M.

I have such a terrible fear of hurting people that I would never be on the S sides of things- but I definately have those fantasies where I humiliate and sexually molest a girl and make her mine : ).

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/19/2005 5:11:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel
I think that it isn't that openly common - because people are still ridiculed or blasted for admitting said desire.

And why is that? I guess that is what boggles me the most.

One evening I had a long debate with a Domly Dom kind of man who told me that I had to be partly submissive to be a masochist. He told me that I was resisting submission.

Now being someone who attempted submission as often as I did, I don't think I ever resisted it. I just never felt right in it. I never wanted to hand over authority, power, control. When I bottom to someone in S&M, I do not hand those over. Am I vulnerable? Yes. I don't mind feeling vulnerable, in fact I find that quite arousing. I can have moments where I feel vulnerable as Domme as well.

Anyhow, thank you for sharing this angel. Perhaps we need to start a clubhouse ;)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/19/2005 5:12:55 AM

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quote:

I'm a bit of the opposite in two ways- one, I'm a sub interested in the Domming- and two, the interest in switching is more along the lines of D/s as opposed to S&M.

In this case, you fit the more common definition of a D/s switch. There is a lot written on this in this forum but very little on the topic I addressed.

- LA

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(in reply to Lepidoptera)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/19/2005 7:13:46 AM

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I'm not a D/s switch, but I do follow the S&M switching. I just don't like that term...as you said it implies the Ds aspect with no thought to the other. I'm masochistic and sadistic, I just enjoy pain. I've "bottemed" for several people and enjoyed it thoroughly, and never one time considered myself submissive. It's just another way for me to get what I need and desire.
They need to come up with another word for what we do *soft laugh*

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/19/2005 5:54:24 PM

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How nice it is to see someone sorta kinda like me *gets a warm fuzzy feeling*

- LA

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(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/20/2005 4:59:17 AM

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@ the warm fuzzies

I don't understand why anyone would feel ashamed of what they are and what they like...I don't feel it takes away from a Domme if she's masochistic. I actually think it enhances her. You KNOW how it feels to be bound, to be beaten...I'm trying to see the down side of it??

My husband tells me I'm just a slut *laughs* pain slut, attention slut...I'm not happy with just one thing, oh no, I have to have it all. Again...where's the problem??? *chuckles*

Have a blessed day!

_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/20/2005 4:48:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindred2Evil

@ the warm fuzzies

I don't understand why anyone would feel ashamed of what they are and what they like...I don't feel it takes away from a Domme if she's masochistic. I actually think it enhances her. You KNOW how it feels to be bound, to be beaten...I'm trying to see the down side of it??

Oh I agree! But there are a bunch of people who wouldn't. And they get their knickers in a knot if you even suggest it! Just look here!

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/22/2005 12:37:48 PM

SirCJ

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At times I'm with a partner, which is a switch. I don't switch, when she is with Me she is a bottom and also My submissive by her choice. When W/we do play, she knows it is ok to bottom for another Top for S&M, her pleasure is from getting what she needs and most of the time she will end up directing the Top to reach sub space, this is always agreed on prior. In the D&s relationship I'm the one who is in control, in S&M there are so many different styles of play that for one to control it all would take many life times to learn. I sometimes require pain to reach sub space, and I'm no submissive and it is no fun to give it to yourself, so if I required it wouldn't I have to use a Top. When it comes to pleasure and pain I do not label people or assume their role. I don't think that sub space it limited to the masochist. CJ

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/22/2005 11:26:56 PM

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quote:

When it comes to pleasure and pain I do not label people or assume their role. I don't think that sub space it limited to the masochist.

You bring about an interesting point CJ.

Wouldn't sub space come from doing any submissive act? When someone goes to that little place in their mind because they have had their senses overstimulated by being dragged across that oh-so wonderful thin line between pain and pleasure, wouldn't it be more masospace?

Just a thought. I'm simply trying to point out that states of mind and states of identification are very often attributed to the D/s aspects and often do not include other aspects of WIITWD.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SirCJ)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/25/2005 2:11:39 PM

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I am a Switch but cant really say i am D/s OR S/m. I am all the above. Including M/s.
When I came into this lifestyle I was a "sub" but then was trained as a slave and really felt it was my place. Then while training for massage I discovered a Sadistic side. I liked it when those clients moaned and squirmed when I was parking a particularly difficult knot. It struck something inside me and I had to try topping. I liked it...alot!

So I was a slave in my head but really liked this topping stuff. It was a confusing time for me. Then I realized it was ok and relaxed and explored it more. I liked the reaction I got from causing others pain like that but i loved to serve as well.

I realized though that when I work with a sub more than just scenes...I like the D/s aspect very much. During play with those that are not "mine" It is more about S/m for the most part. There is an occasion that a little D/s comes into play but mostly me hurting them and them loving it.

I like the M/s part very much as well. I can go into Master/Mistress mode quite easily without effort. It fits like a glove in the right situation with the right person. It fits as well as the slave and Sadist gloves fit.

Then we have to talk about bottoming (masochism maybe). I thing you can bottom without being a masochist because though I love what pain does for me I HATE the pain itself. I bottom when the situation is right less right now than I would prefer because of some lifestyle abuse. I don't like the pain but some consider me a pain slut when they watch me play. Just because I can take a lot doesnt mean i like the pain it means I like what it does to my head. I love serving and taking that pain for another even when I dont like the pain itself I love pleasing the one I am serving at the time. I still have a slave heart. When I serve I want to give all of me or I feel I am somehow cheating me and the other person by limiting them with my wants. If they are good and negotiations were good they will know my hard limits and they wont get all of me if they are WAY into the things that are hard limits for me. It is about finding good matches.

I actually had a situation come up last year that kinda shocked me a bit. I was asked if i was interested in being a Dom's sub for a weekend event. I freaked cause I didnt have a clue how to be a sub. I knew how to be a slave and it is worlds apart and not the same animal at all. Needless to say He had to remind me occasionally I wasn't serving as His slave...lol

I have since worked on gaining that ability and do like it but not as much as being in slave mode.

So then the question is ...do I have to choose if I like D/s, S/m or M/s? Can't I have them all? I don't think I am more of any of them than the other. They are all parts of me like my Yin and Yang. It really all depends on my mindset, the situation and who I am with. I am a switch in every aspect of the word. I don't limit myself with specifying what/who I can and cant be. Negotiations should cover that quite well.

Just my 2 cents...ok maybe 5 cents ...lol
Sharon

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/27/2005 2:00:06 AM

ProtagonistLily

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Hrm, excellent topic.

I'm not sure how rare or common it is, but I think that in order to be able to identify as such, it takes a whole lot of self knowledge and security in yourself.

I've been in the scene a fair amount of time and recently took an interest in Topping and through a personal journey, I discovered that in a D/s context, I am submissive, and never dominant. However, I do, on occasion, enjoy topping a extremely limited amount of partners in the context of SM.

This can be difficult to be comfortable with for some people, especially those who have known an individual as strictly one thing, i.e. a submissive or Top, as Dark~Angel touched on in her response. But if you are confident and comfortable in your own skin, what others think really matters not.

Lily

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: S&M switch - but not D/s - 5/27/2005 4:43:27 PM

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Depends on the Mood...Nuf said!

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

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