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RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/9/2007 2:30:28 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

In my relationship with Valyraen there is nothing to handle. He desires women who are intelligent and more then capable of thinking for themselves and forming their own opinions, regardless of if they match his. I am encouraged to think upon the ways of the world and come up with my opinions. I would be punished if I hide my true feelings from him whenever it came up. He has often said the hottest thing about me is my "big, sexy brain". We debate often and he never calls it off because he is losing. He will only call it off if we are going round and round and not getting anywhere.

In truth, he would have no use for me if I were willing to hide my views on issues, social, political or otherwise, simply to please him. If that is more of the dynamic that you desire, then yes you will have to speak with him.


I have to say - I second that - Said far more eloquently than I could with my brain this tired :)

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/9/2007 9:03:34 PM   
MistressGala


Posts: 13
Joined: 7/2/2007
Status: offline 		It depends on the dynamic you have set up in the relationship. I am formal and my style is one of quiet dignity.  If a submissive disagrees with me in public, I train them to express their issue to me in a quiet,discrete, and respectful manner. If this is done, I will listen to their concerns and take them under thoughtful advisement.  Public embarrassment has in the past led me to immediately release a sub from collar.
I have seen what appears to outsiders, to be BDSM relationships that have a democratic ring to them. Such issues should be addressed during negotiation stages in such a case.  My home is one of divine right monarchy and submissives are made well aware at the onset.


_____________________________

It is simple dear, I am a sadist, I don't care how you feel and if I hurt you...you came to me first.
Mistress Gala
Un-Apologetic Elitist

(in reply to petal7)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/11/2007 9:54:11 PM   
akbarbarian


Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		Just hope your Dom doesn't train you not to disagree by using an electric shock obedience collar on you.  My slave wears one.  She agrees much more often than she used to.  Well, unless you want to find out how good you are at agreeing that is.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to petal7)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 5:17:48 AM   
fadedlace


Posts: 137
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Just hope your Dom doesn't train you not to disagree by using an electric shock obedience collar on you.  My slave wears one.  She agrees much more often than she used to.  Well, unless you want to find out how good you are at agreeing that is.


I hope you researched that particular shock collar VERY well before deciding to put it on your slave.  Many can do damage to humans.  Here's a link to information which I hope you've already read and taken into account.  You'll have to scroll down and find the information, but it's there and while I'm no expert, seems to be at least well-researched.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/47917/BDSM-The-247-Ds-Lifestyle

(in reply to akbarbarian)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 5:26:02 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Hi

in most relationship the Dom or master wil welcome a sub whit a different opinion if that opinion is presented whit respect, but the Dominant party have the last word. Like in a 50's wedding yes? The wife would state her opinions and a good husband would listen and be adviced but the final choice was his to make.

i wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to fadedlace)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 5:29:58 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		This may seem a bit hard to believe for some people, but my husband and I don't have disagreements over "issues", political, religious, social, etc. We're just in-sync that way, and honestly that's a one of the main reasons why I married the big oaf. =)

However... we do bicker. A lot. Over what I would consider normal stuff. Our little snippy banter isn't serious at all, it's just another way we show our love for each other. My husband is the final decision maker as head of the household, he knows it, and he's just not threatened or bothered by little details. He'd probably be worried if we didn't bicker, considering we get tons of communicating done that way.

He and I aren't the "sit down and talk it out" type of people. There's an unspoken agreement on both our parts that whatever the problem is, we'll just work it out somehow. Eventually.

But hey, the way the two of us interact would probably drive other couples nuts, lol. just because it works for us, doesn't mean it would work for everybody.

(in reply to Hina00)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 11:41:13 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Just hope your Dom doesn't train you not to disagree by using an electric shock obedience collar on you.  My slave wears one.  She agrees much more often than she used to.  Well, unless you want to find out how good you are at agreeing that is.


Oh Good Lord!

(in reply to akbarbarian)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 12:56:45 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Just hope your Dom doesn't train you not to disagree by using an electric shock obedience collar on you.  My slave wears one.  She agrees much more often than she used to.  Well, unless you want to find out how good you are at agreeing that is.


Oh Good Lord!


Are you really surprised?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 1:06:22 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Just hope your Dom doesn't train you not to disagree by using an electric shock obedience collar on you.  My slave wears one.  She agrees much more often than she used to.  Well, unless you want to find out how good you are at agreeing that is.


Oh Good Lord!


Are you really surprised?


No I guess not given what I have read so far. And I think the word I would use now is worried rather than surprised and I am sure I am not the only one!

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 8:21:16 PM   
BigBastard


Posts: 4
Joined: 7/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petal7

The only thing that has ever caused him to "HUSH" me was when I picked an inappropriate moment to question or disagree.  He has hushed me occasionally, but has always come back and asked, when the time was more appropriate, "Now, what did you want to say?"  I have been spoiled in my tendancy to say what I want when I want so this has occasionally caused a bit of a hurt feeling in me.  However, I'm learning quickly that this is the way it is - it's what pleases him, it's what works for the relationship and that the little sting to my ego is a good thing for us overall.


Tsk tsk.  You're telling fibs.  We don't negotiate that.  If my slave speaks up at an inappropriate moment, she's met with a reminder of who is in charge.  It doesn't mean I devalue her opinion.  She is a very smart girl with a brain that I like to pick from time to time.  And that whole spoiled thing?  Well, we know why that is.  It's something to be worked on.

(in reply to petal7)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 9:43:08 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Great thread.  Shows that newbies sometimes ask interesting questions too.  Of course we've discussed it a few times before, but learning how to submit even when you disagree (and finding a dom who knows how to handle a sub who disagrees) is an important element of d/s.


In my opinion, it is these situations and how they behave, it tells you the most of the Dominant and the submissive.  As well as the likelyhood of their success of being together in the long-term. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/12/2007 10:15:04 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I will tell my guys to shut it if they're disagreeing about how to do something with me, or when they should do something, or why, or something of that nature. Not every time obviously, and not if I feel there's some really legitimate misgiving. I read them pretty well.

When I won't is when we're talking about abstracts and differences of opinion. I would hate to lose the ability to dialogue with them about things I have a different perspective on.

My guys aren't obnoxious enough to patently and agressively *disagree* with me in public and pull me up short.

I do however, always want them to let me know, as they would if I had lipstick on my teeth, if I was saying something or doing something they honetly in heart of heart thought totally wrong. Pull my sleeve and yank me aside, but let me know. They don't nag, pick, try to change me but they have the obligation to help me out and they know they will usually be given the latitude needed to do that task in the right situation -  I think being charged with making sure I look good and can act with confidence is the JOB of a right hand man. If I make it clear that any dissent or mention of flaw is going to earn them a "shut up" they're not going to do this.

If I let them say anything any time anywhere, they're not going to stay focused. It requires a little of each, for me - that they have the *right* to disagree and that I have the *right* to ultimately decide where and when and how hearing about it is appropriate or if I'm going to choose to listen.

There are rare times I choose not to listen. Because I don't make a steady diet of it, the point is really clear.


< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 7/12/2007 10:16:26 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/13/2007 3:55:17 AM   
kaprecia


Posts: 37
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hina00

I'm a little confused about people with this lifestyle 24/7
If  sub or a slave ( if there are any difference between the answers for sub/slave, do tell ^^ ) disagrees with their master, not about sex or something, but about a social issue or...anything really, how would it be handled?
I just know that my dom is going to jump up and say "shut up or ill punish you" the instant I argue with him, I think I am going to have to sit down and explain that I DO have opinions.

But, how do you handle disagreements?



Disagreements were always talked out.  If we could not come to the same conclusion, we agreed to disagree and moved on.

If I were in a relationship where I could not express my opinions........well forget that as I would not be in that type of relationship.

kaprecia

(in reply to Hina00)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/13/2007 5:18:12 AM   
womanworshipper


Posts: 71
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		It’s not straight-forward, is it? As a sub, i want to be dominated by my Owner, so i don’t want Her to seek or respect my view on everything. My Mistress often tells me to shut up, or calls me an idiot, sometimes publically, and I adore Her for it. On the other hand, I can understand that if I was never allowed to express a view on anything, I would find that oppressive.

The solution lies partly in establishing agreed guidelines but also in the mutual compatibility of both parties and the judgement of the Dom(me). Our/our basic approach is uncompromising: Mistress is always right, even if She is wrong! If i strongly disagree with Her, it is my duty to tell Her, but i accept that i may be punished for doing so. Moreover, if She still believes She is right, then We/we go with Her view. Publically, i always support Her, regardless of my personal feelings.

This approach could lead to a very oppressive relationship, but it works for Us/us because i trust my Mistress’s judgement implicitly and because i know that She cares for me and has my best interests at heart. i also know that She values my opinion because She will often seek it and explicitly acknowledges that i know more on certain matters than She does. 

In fact, for the most part, She will allow me to make my own decisions and i enjoy  freedom of conscience in respect of my most fundamental beliefs. For example, She is a (liberal) muslim, while I am a non-believer. We/we respect one another’s views and even discuss them critically. She never tries to force Her beliefs on me. Our/our political allegiances are very similar, so there is no real issue there.

i would suggest that You discuss the fact that You feel that You need more room in Your relationship to express your opinions. If Your Master is not prepared to allow this, then perhaps he is not the Master for You.

(in reply to LadyHeart)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/14/2007 9:49:19 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Just hope your Dom doesn't train you not to disagree by using an electric shock obedience collar on you.  My slave wears one.  She agrees much more often than she used to.  Well, unless you want to find out how good you are at agreeing that is.
Oh Good Lord!

Are you really surprised?

No I guess not given what I have read so far. And I think the word I would use now is worried rather than surprised and I am sure I am not the only one!


The only thing I'm worried about is the electric shock collar. Those are really tricky to get right. Even the companies that make them for law enforcement (yes, they have been used in prisons and trials) have trouble making them safe. The number of accidental discharges have been equal to the number of intentional discharges so far. And the main manufacturer went out of business due to problems with their products.

An electric shock collar must be designed for the right species, have proper I/V limiting with fail-open defaults, and even then you will risk triggering a vasovagal reaction. Most cases of vasovagal reactions will just lead to a 30% drop in BP and/or heart rate, IIRC. But some people do not have a functioning limiter there, causing it to drop to nil. Quite simply, it isn't particularly safe.

That said, it doesn't have to be.

If both parties have agreed to that level of risk, it's all good.

Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of a stun bracelet, the kind you wear on the upper arm. Those can range from an "odd sensation" to being outright incapacitating with pain, and will be miles safer than a collar, at any setting.

That said, I'd not use it to stifle disagreements.

As others have pointed out, it's how one disagrees that matters, not whether one disagrees. At least for me. Getting into a shouting match just messes up everyone's day, and shutting it down until people have cooled off will usually help things in the long run. Doing it when presented with a respectful disagreement will usually be negative.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/14/2007 10:02:38 AM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		We agree on just about every issue, i cant think of an issue where we dont agree actually so that's probably a good thing.

Astrology is the only time where we might get into a discussion or debate....but then it's not really a debate because I dont really talk back, it's not worth a disagreement to me.

~meticulous~


(in reply to petal7)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/14/2007 10:21:53 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Hi

quote:

The only thing I'm worried about is the electric shock collar. Those are really tricky to get right. Even the companies that make them for law enforcement (yes, they have been used in prisons and trials) have trouble making them safe. The number of accidental discharges have been equal to the number of intentional discharges so far. And the main manufacturer went out of business due to problems with their products.


They are probably using the one designed for dogs Master not for ciminals. Those are not designed to harm the animal, or hurt allot, just to give a little jolt like for exsample no barking collars.

That being said i think it is inportant that the pepole in the relationship themself must find out how to handle this. i dont think one can sit all high and mighty and say that no they are wrong. Yes i belive that if the slave can never say what she mean then there will be tension, but i do not see anything wrong whit the Master demanding an argument to stop.

i think many forget that in some dynamics the Master do own the slave. He or she is property for the Master to do whit as he pleaces that be to beat them and have sex whit them or shut them up in an argument. A Master/slave dynamic do not need t be politically correct, and sometimes all a owner want to hear from his property is yes Master and i do not think that is wrong.

May i wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/14/2007 10:32:12 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

They are probably using the one designed for dogs Master not for ciminals. Those are not designed to harm the animal, or hurt allot, just to give a little jolt like for exsample no barking collars.


The ones used for dogs are dangerous for humans, from what I have read. They are not manufactured to medical specifications, unlike e.g. TENS units, and are designed for a different skin thickness, among other things. It can work fine a thousand times, or it can kill you on the first jolt. Depends on a million different things, like how much you have been sweating, what voltage and current setting the collar uses, etc.

quote:

i think many forget that in some dynamics the Master do own the slave. He or she is property for the Master to do whit as he pleaces that be to beat them and have sex whit them or shut them up in an argument. A Master/slave dynamic do not need t be politically correct, and sometimes all a owner want to hear from his property is yes Master and i do not think that is wrong.


I wasn't voicing any disagreement with this. Merely saying that a lot of people don't have a solid grasp of how an electrocollar works. And that whoever makes the decision should either have a grasp of that, or be willing to take the risk involved in running a random amount of current through some unspecified part of their slave's neck.

Personally, I'd much prefer an electrobracelet or somesuch. But each to their own.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/14/2007 11:41:48 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Hi

quote:

The ones used for dogs are dangerous for humans, from what I have read. They are not manufactured to medical specifications, unlike e.g. TENS units, and are designed for a different skin thickness, among other things. It can work fine a thousand times, or it can kill you on the first jolt. Depends on a million different things, like how much you have been sweating, what voltage and current setting the collar uses, etc.


That may be right Master, i dont know much about it. i would never use such a devince on an dog if we ever get one, as it is not necessary to train an animal to behave, it seam to me to often be a devince used when the dog owner dont want to take the time and effort to use kinder means to train the animal. Even dog like the little white monster my mother owns could fine be trained and whitout such messures, one just have to be firm and constant. So i have not read up on electro collers for dogs as i dont like them being used on animals.

i wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: "I disagree" "Shut up, slave" - 7/14/2007 12:22:43 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I was just thinking about them on people.

When they are used on dogs, that's ideally only for dogs that have some kind of problem that can't be corrected effectively otherwise, and which will lead to them losing their lives. For instance, if the dog keeps running into traffic, or whatever, then an invisible fence setup can save their lives without having to stop working (and thus not afford to keep them) or locking them up in a little cage several hours a day, or whatever.

On a person, however, it can work. I'd just suggest using a bracelet, rather than a collar.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 60
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