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Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 6:23:44 PM

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I come to a Sunday--exhausted and working too hard at my real life (50+ hours/week) to encounter: a house in complete disarray and a sub (my partner) playing his usual online games. I tried to approach it differently--i.e. "let's clean together" and we move forward only to find that at every juncture (and when he can) my sub is online checking up with friends. What I expect to be a day of getting shit done ends up being a day of feeling as if I have to coerce him to do anything and angry arguments at every turn.

Considering that I should be giving the best positive reinforcement possible--I am at a loss. What do I give at this moment? I work--my partner/sub does not. It is his responsibility to keep the house clean, but he is not keeping his end of the bargain. I am not willing to *get rid of him* so what do I do? I am so angry that what would be a *normal vanilla* argument seems to have become our argument.

I am wondering whether I have to just throw in the towel and realize that he is not going to ever do such ordinary chores as clean the house, but if that is not the case, then quite frankly, he sits around doing what he likes.

Is this even a "help me deal with my sub" question? Am I only asking the question because we both happen to be kinky so we end up here on collarme? My life was very simple in terms of BDSM before I got into a full time relationship. Not even sure what my question is--but if there's any thoughts or advice around I would appreciate it.

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 6:27:10 PM

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He doesn't sound like he's willing to chip in and do any part of the up-keep of your household. Maybe he's beggin for you to take some control? I don't know.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 6:33:50 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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turn off the computer and take the cables so he cant plug it in...hide them until he does what he's told.

sounds like a free loader.

< Message edited by faerytattoodgirl -- 9/7/2008 6:35:01 PM >

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 6:38:01 PM

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In domly fashion - what I would do - is lock the power cable to the computer in my fire safe, assign a list of chores, and invite a friend over to help me watch while they are completed. If he refuses, start upping the ante until he knows you mean business. No argument. It's his job.

In my house, certain chores were assigned, but over time, neither of us is physically able to do some of them. I recognize that also. Now some of them are assigned to E and D, some of them are assigned to visiting domestic subs, and some just don't get done.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 6:47:37 PM

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~FR~

I feel your pain, zavalfuin. I don't think that what you're experiencing is in any way limited to a D/s role at all. Many vanilla relationships have this very same problem all the time. And although I am not a mistress, I am a woman. I was in a very similar situation and actually broke up with a wonderful man who I had planned to marry because he had no goals and didn't do anything around the house.

Without knowing any particulars of your relationship, here is some potential advice that you could try:

1 - First, be sure to tell him that his behavior is frustrating to you, and ask him why he cannot/will not/does not keep up his end of the bargain. It could be that he's unhappy about something and, because he doesn't have a structured life like people do who work, he just meanders around or does things that make him feel better. Or, it could also be that he is just lazy or unmotivated to do anything.

2 - Tell him that he either keeps the household chores done -- on time -- or he must get a full-time job. Any relationship requires two people to help hold it together, IMO. Give him a timeline for getting a job, or make a "to-do" list for him to complete every day. Punish him (denying his Internet access would be a good punishment, it seems) if he doesn't get every chore done to your satisfaction every day.

3 - If it gets to the point, take away the Internet access while you're at work. A friend of mine once unplugged her son's keyboard and brought it to work with her to keep him from getting on the Net while she was at work. In this way, YOU control when he is able to get online. After all, if YOU can't play for 8 hours a day, HE shouldn't be able to either. You might have to get imaginative if he shifts to watching television, though. If it comes down to it, you may have to cancel your cable or satellite service, Internet service, etc. in order for him to get the message.

I personally don't believe in the positive reinforcement crap in situations like these. Give him NEGATIVE reinforcement until he starts doing better, then be sure to give him praise when he does something right and well, until he knows what your expectations are and lives up to them.

I hope you find something that works for you! Best of luck!

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 7:19:12 PM

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Is this an ongoing problem? Or is it recent behaviour?

Was the housework something he used to do, but became lapsed lately? Or has he always been like this?

The reason I ask is, if it was something he used to do, but has stopped, it could be because he is upset, unhappy, and going through a low ebb of submission, talk to him and find out. It sounds like it’s more to do with just being distracted by other things though. In which case, if I were in that situation I wouldn‘t mess around with positive reinforcement. I would make my wishes clear, but making sure he has his ‘alone time’ for things like gaming. If he still doesn’t tow the line, then take the internet away from him. Just imo opinion of course, you need to do as you see fit. He sounds like he is spirited, so you need to be firm, clear, and follow through with what you say. By ‘allowing’ him to continue his laziness without rectifying the situation is sending the wrong kind of reinforcement.

If this is something he has never done, and you have made no clear rules as to chores then now is the time to start.

To answer your question, I don’t find a bit of laziness to be a problem, I‘m a lazy mare myself at times. But disobedience would be a huge problem though. Maybe you are confusing the two?

(in reply to zavalfuin)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 7:27:11 PM

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Hello zavalfuin,

Well if this little one can quote Patrick Swayze in Road House, " Be Nice Until It's Time Not To Be Nice ". It Sounds like You've tried the first approach and now You have to take the second option. It is the general attitude here and this one couldn't agree more, get imaginative, use Your power over him to punish him a bit in every way until he relents and takes care of his part. Otherwise he is not only driving You crazy, he Is Free-Loading off of You, remember, You're The Top Here.

Try talking to him and telling him exactly what is required from him, down to the very last detail if You can. List Your rules for him, while also telling him he Has Dissapointed You and Does need to be punished for his bad behavior, to the extent Your relationship with him allows You. You need this to stop that's obvious, when You talk to him explain to him that You intend to start with the computer / whatever else You think appropriate, and will advance from there as necessary until he complies. If You allow this to continue You will actually be condoning it and it Will Only Get Worse, making Your life even more miserable.

In closing, start by talking to him listing all of You requirements, leaving no wiggle room, no room for any doubt, reward him as he progresses towards Your goals for him.

Hope You can get this remedied and get him in line,

Thank You for Your time,
lilsubrt

(in reply to bamabbwsub)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 7:56:36 PM

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#1 Beat him.

#2 Take away the computer.

#3 Make him get a JOB.

#4 Kick his ass out.

No one gets a free ride in the world. If he doesn't want to be the house boy, then he needs to get a job or get out. Period.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 8:03:35 PM

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Online games are very addictive and he's behaving like an "addict" by neglecting and ignoring other responsibilities in his life. Gamers who play a lot gain status and a sense of pride and are often admired by other gamers for their achievements. His sense of self may be tied up in the game as well as his social network. Taking all of that away at once can be very traumatic. If you remove computer access you should encourage him to find another outlet that is constructive and will provide a sense of accomplishment and pride. In addition to taking care of the house, maybe he should go back to school or do some volunteer work or something along those lines. I would also work on a very specific list and schedule-some people respond more positively to very specific instructions.

(in reply to lilsubrt)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 8:13:13 PM

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Why aren't you willing to get rid of him? If he knows that basically you'll keep him no matter what he does, he'll end up doing whatever he wants. Sounds like he has quite a deal as it is.

It's sad, but since we're no longer in the Middle Ages, the only real trump card you hold over a sub is the power to tell him to get the fuck out of your life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zavalfuin

What do I give at this moment? I work--my partner/sub does not. It is his responsibility to keep the house clean, but he is not keeping his end of the bargain. I am not willing to *get rid of him* so what do I do?

(in reply to zavalfuin)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 8:32:34 PM

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Personally, I find that it is difficult to get household chores to sound soooo exciting that my sub will actually engage in them. Household chores sound, well vanilla. Beating for cleaning is just as boring, frankly. However, all chores related to my personal upkeep are gladly undertaken. So…hire a cleaning person and have him do your personal chores (laundry, cooking, getting you drinks, etc). That’s what I did and no more arguments. Happy, clean house for a small fee.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/7/2008 9:11:37 PM

DieSchadenfreude

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Try telling your submissive this:

There are approximately 4 submissives for every Dominant. And that ratio is even more exaggerated for male subs to FemDoms. So if he's not willing to start behaving like a good little boy who will do all his chores, then you've got plenty of other options for finding a better partner... and he doesn't.

I suppose I sound cruel in saying that, but hell, I'm a Domme. I know what I'm entitled to. And while I haven't dealt with a lazy submissive yet, I've definitely dealt with negligent ones. (I recently dropped a submissive who prefered me to computer games.)

Anyways, best of luck in fixing your situation. I hope it works out for you. Just don't sacrifice your standards so that you can hold on to someone who you've had good times with in the past (I learned that lesson for myself recently). It's much better to move on and try to find something newer and better.

Mistress Belle

--------------------------------------
Es tut so weh, so wohl hernach, wer straubte sich dagegen?
It hurts so badly, so well hereafter so who would resist against it?

(in reply to DominaSusan)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 12:58:41 AM

dreamerdreaming

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What should you do?

BE WILLING TO GET RID OF HIM.

Soon.

I will not have a disobedient slave. And my slave must willingly comply. He is not allowed to be disobedient, or get an attitude problem. Those are both cause for release. I made sure my slave knew this from the start. The result: A very good slaveboy. Very obedient and compliant. I am very pleased with him.

It sounds like you didn't establish these very basic requirements, right from the start. It may be too late, now. You may end up having to kick him to the curb due to your own failure to establish proper authority over him from the beginning. Or you may just be spineless enough to continue putting up with his current (ongoing? how long has this been going on?) bad behavior. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've got to wake up and smell the coffee. Who's the Dom, here? If its you, then you've got to set limits and back them up with action.

Don't wait, do it now.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 9/8/2008 1:02:00 AM >

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(in reply to zavalfuin)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 1:03:23 AM

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I vote with the "take the power cabels away" group.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 5:14:21 AM

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Hey Zav.. this is what I would do..

First leave a daily chore list.. expectations of tasks to be completed.. even by a time.. ie. by 10 am beds made, dishes in diswasher, laudry sorted.. so forth and so on..perhaps he is person for whom structure is difficult for.. they dont know where to start so they dont start at all.. all those decisions for some are completely overwhleming.. Menu planned with all the recipes printed out and put in a binder... Monday.. Spagetti boloanise.. garden salad..Tues baked chicken with roast potatoes and carrots, etc..etc.. I like allrecipes.com for finding simply easy tasty recipes.

Secondly, make your expectations resonable, give him enough time to play his game or job search or whatever..

Thirdly if there is a chore he completely hates.. ie cleaning the toilets.. make that something you might do together..or make that the one thing you do in the household..

Finally, tell him before hand what the consequences will be if he fails to meet expectations.. and follow thru no matter how tired and pissy your are..45 minutes saying the rosary on his knees in rice with nose pressed to the wall. and if he still cant managed it then darling I hate to tell you your not incharge.. and hes great bottom but no sub/slave..then you have a choice keep him as your bottom and find a sub slave who will be your servant and take it from there

Hope that helps..SD

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 9/8/2008 5:17:57 AM >

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 7:56:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Online games are very addictive and he's behaving like an "addict" by neglecting and ignoring other responsibilities in his life. Gamers who play a lot gain status and a sense of pride and are often admired by other gamers for their achievements. His sense of self may be tied up in the game as well as his social network. Taking all of that away at once can be very traumatic. If you remove computer access you should encourage him to find another outlet that is constructive and will provide a sense of accomplishment and pride. In addition to taking care of the house, maybe he should go back to school or do some volunteer work or something along those lines. I would also work on a very specific list and schedule-some people respond more positively to very specific instructions.

This is spot on advice.
If his addicted you will have to step in and control access.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 8:07:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Why aren't you willing to get rid of him? If he knows that basically you'll keep him no matter what he does, he'll end up doing whatever he wants. Sounds like he has quite a deal as it is.

It's sad, but since we're no longer in the Middle Ages, the only real trump card you hold over a sub is the power to tell him to get the fuck out of your life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zavalfuin

What do I give at this moment? I work--my partner/sub does not. It is his responsibility to keep the house clean, but he is not keeping his end of the bargain. I am not willing to *get rid of him* so what do I do?

If I had been working all day and came home to a non working sub that had spent the day fucking around and my house was a mess.........his ass would be out on the curb so fast he'd leave skid marks on it.

Right now, he's getting a free ride and you are his submissive.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 8:46:34 AM

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Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply. I think for us the answer lies somewhere amongst all the excellent responses:

1. Establish clear expectations of what needs to be done--on a weekly or even daily basis and consequences for not getting it done
2. Understand that he may not always get it right, but don't allow for slippage into gaming or other computer pastimes whilst work needs to get done (i.e. take the cables away)
3. Do some work together.
3. Give him a deadline for getting his act together or give him the boot.

Cheers all

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 9:02:30 AM

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Singing with the chior here.

I probably wouldn't take the computer cables away. As a computer addict Myself, I know that would be a bit on the traumatic side. Ask the people in My house how I react when the net is down. Not a pretty picture, I can assure you.

What I would be doing though, would be to start using it a privilege, rather than a right. Nobody deserves a luxury that they aren't earning, which is what I think this case is. If he wants it, he's got to earn it. If your arrangement is that he won't work outside of the home, then it's time he was put to work inside the home.

It's definitely time he had a list of daily chores. Things that must be done prior to whatever time it is that you get home from work each day. Why on earth are you spending your one day off in a messy house? You worked all week and deserve better than that. If he completes his chores, he gets the gaming access. If he doesn't, you pull the plug. When you set the new standard up, make sure you put it in terms he understands. It's not a punishment, it's a condition.

If that doesn't work, I think it's time to rethink whether or not this is the person you want in your house. LAM was absolutely right about that point. Part of the reason he's getting away with what he's doing is because you are letting him. When a sub, or anyone for that matter, knows they have the power over you that you won't get rid of them, they will absolutely use it to their advantage.

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RE: Lazy sub--does it matter? - 9/8/2008 10:42:21 AM

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It sounds to me like HE has too much control and you need to take it from him. I'd start by disconnecting the PC and telling him he MAY get it back when he learns to do his work first and play later (when YOU allow it). People get lazy when they feel no one is watching them or they have no fear of reprimand for their laziness. Put a boot his in ass and get him motivated.

Good luck,
~Lashra

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(in reply to zavalfuin)

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