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"Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 5:54:10 AM

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Sorry...I read repeatedly about people having "vanilla sides" which refers to mood swings, attitudes, PMS, and various other people stuff.

What I don't get is people who claim to be "24/7" saying they have a "vanilla side" to their relationship (not lives) or saying that they can and do "step out of their roles" to resolve conflict. Last I checked 24/7 means 24/7 which means non-stop. Also, even as a s-type, I don't have to "step out of my role" to be clear about my boundaries, what's going on for me, or to state what I need. This isn't a "role" like role-playing. It's a role within my relationship that offers little to no room to change based on a momentary issue that can be resolved through talking to each other like people (because s-types are people too!...well...non-people...anyways).

I just don't understand this whole change the relationship dynamic for a temporary (hours or days) amount of time to fit the mood someone is in (obviously I'm not talking about outside individuals being involved...just those in the relationship). To me that means there's a major breakdown somewhere in the relationship.

I can just see that working here....

me-"I'm not a servant right now! I've stepped out of my role damnit!"

Ma'am-"You what?! boi, have you lost your damn mind?"

boi
Future ruler of the Universe serving MsKitty
Silently plotting the revenge of the swine

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 6:07:53 AM

SolangeRichards

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I see your point of course, and it's a point well taken, but.....

If the Dominant has determined that there will be a "vanilla side" to things, I don't see how that is taking things away from 24/7. Their rules set the tune.

I would agree though that if the submissive laid down the "vanilla side" card as a ground rule of the relationship then using the term "24/7" seems misplaced and sort of makes you wonder who exactly is in charge.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 6:25:44 AM

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I think it depends how they see the relationship, if it works better for them to leave the whole D/s component aside for an hour or two and discuss problems as equals, I don't really see a problem with it.

As for who is in charge, I think that is an ongoing debate, because if the submissive is not happy with the relationship, s/he would possibly leave and without a submissive, who would the dominant be in charge of?

In case all parties are happy with the arrangement, more power to them, from the moment one of them becomes increasingly unhappy and dissatisfied, it's almost doomed to fail, so talking in advance about expectations, needs and all that seems a pretty good idea.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 6:33:31 AM

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A very good thought provoking thread as always--I think when we refer to "vanilla stuff", its an effort to acknowledge and in some to force the fact that the world of filled with reality--people have to work, bills have to be paid, sickness occurs, etc etc--it isn't fantasy land that once you enter the hallowed halls, you get a life exemption from responsibility.

I for one, am always a and the Dominant, there is no role playing for Me, I don't step in and out, all actions, activities, decisions, life management is/are made as Me and that won't ever change, I keep a stern firm hand on the rudder of the ship navigating the waters of life. I don't make exceptions in responsibilities because someone doesn't feel submissive today. In My world as in yours, one either is or isn't and that is a 24/7 statement.

As soon as someone says, let me step out for a second, they weren't IN to begin with.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 7:05:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

A very good thought provoking thread as always--I think when we refer to "vanilla stuff", its an effort to acknowledge and in some to force the fact that the world of filled with reality--people have to work, bills have to be paid, sickness occurs, etc etc--it isn't fantasy land that once you enter the hallowed halls, you get a life exemption from responsibility.

I for one, am always a and the Dominant, there is no role playing for Me, I don't step in and out, all actions, activities, decisions, life management is/are made as Me and that won't ever change, I keep a stern firm hand on the rudder of the ship navigating the waters of life. I don't make exceptions in responsibilities because someone doesn't feel submissive today. In My world as in yours, one either is or isn't and that is a 24/7 statement.

As soon as someone says, let me step out for a second, they weren't IN to begin with.

I think you touched a point with "not feeling submissive today" which is a completely different issue than possibly a real concern or a reason where you just need to sit down and talk, for some people it might be easier if they call that vanilla and approach it as equals. A lot of people might not be able to address all issues in a D/s setting because they would feel they are overstepping bounds.

As for reality, I absolutely agree with that. A few years ago I lost 2 of my closest family members within a period of 3 months in a rather traumatic way, I was a sobbing, crying mess and not feeling particularly tuned into BDSM, in fact it was the last thing on my mind, I needed somebody to hold and cuddle me, somebody who gave me a shoulder to cry on. The partner I was with at that time provided it, he didn't respect me less because I was human and had feelings and not "uber domme". The relationship didn't last for various other reasons (work and geography) but he's still my best friend and will remain to be that.
Personally a relationship where somebody doesn't see me as a person first wouldn't work for me, if somebody wants "just the domme" and can't accept the rest of me, I have little interest, because that would turn me into an animated BDSM doll, only there to fulfill his or her kinks.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 7:34:16 AM

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Hello A/all,

When I think of the "vanilla side," I think about non-D/s interests such as snow sports or archery or (dare I say), chain-saw juggling. These things complete us as people and help to enhance any relationship that we may participate in.

Taking into account your original point; there are times where I do have to be pretty assertive in my life.

Respectfully,
Mike
SnowRanger

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 7:46:14 AM

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For me, "vanilla side" means more that I want to have at least a couple of hobbies/interests in common, be able to carry on interesting conversations about topics other than BDSM, go on dates, cuddle, and so forth. In the two D/s relationships I've had (one as Dominant, one as submissive, lasting 5 and 3 years, respectively), we didn't have roles we could step into and out of, and just expressed what was going on if we had a problem. My other relationships were egalitarian kinky, leaning a bit Dominant (I was in charge of things, especially in the bedroom, but we weren't in a formal D/s relationship). No "roles" there either, we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, and liked doing BDSM.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 7:49:12 AM

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This definition of terms is obviously a serious problem. What is the "vanilla" side of life, the "vanilla" side of a relationship? Where is the boundary drawn?

Is there both bdsm and "vanilla" within your sex life itself? Many people define intercourse as vanilla if it is not specifically painful or humiliating for the submissive. If sex is not painful or humiliating for someone, is it "vanilla" and thus boring or unsexy?

Is there vanilla within your larger relationship dynamic? If so, what constitutes vanilla relationship dynamics--is it any situation where the submissive takes initiative or control, regardless of his/her intentions? Is it "vanilla creeping in" for the submissive to take out a subscription to a magazine or switch the family's cell phone plan to pay less per month without consulting his/her domina? Is it "vanilla creeping in" for the submissive to initiate a conversation or disagree with the dominant on any issue--social, political, philosophical, or trivial?

Is there vanilla within your larger relationship with the world? Do you want to have your D/S dynamic front and center and on display to everyone, at all times, in all places? Or are there times when everyone's happiness and best interests are best served by downplaying the power exchange in a relationship? Does a domme need to "domme it up" at the funeral of her submissive's father, at the wedding of a brother or sister, at the office party in front of her submissive's co-workers and the boss? Is the domme still "in charge" when she and her submissive are participating in some hobby, passtime or social situation where her submissive needs to exert some authority--for example, if her submissive is an officer at the club or the Dungeon Master of a gaming group?

What is "vanilla" to you, and how is it defined by others? It seems to me that the word has become an all-purpose term to describe anything and everything that is not D/S or maso/sado--from needlepoint and chainsaw juggling to a submissive working outside the home or not wearing a heavy leather doggy collar in public.

I don't know if I believe there is such a thing as "pure D/S" anywhere, even in societies where slavery was once a legal relationship. But the way the term "vanilla" is used as an oppositional term in bdsm is pretty interesting.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 5/11/2009 7:54:50 AM >

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 7:55:42 AM

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When I see this type of discussion I just assume that there are people that need to have more defined boxes for their lives, for whatever reason.

For myself, I see my life like a faceted gemstone. There are some really great vanilla facets and there are some amazing kinky facets. The gemstone, my life, is a single entity comprised of all of the facets. I cannot chop it up into seperate pieces.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 8:25:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
This isn't a "role" like role-playing.

i agree with you 100%...i dont understand the disconnect myself. i tell many that this is a lifestyle, not a role i play from 6-9pm. i had a sub from this site tell me that he was a "switch" b/c he had on and off times. huh??

we live in a vanilla society, so when i say "vanilla side" those in the life who know me understand that to mean at work, school, or around family and friends. but w/in the "realms" of a D/s or Miss/s, there is NO vanilla side. i dont play a Domme/Mistress...

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 8:42:08 AM

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quote:

For myself, I see my life like a faceted gemstone. There are some really great vanilla facets and there are some amazing kinky facets. The gemstone, my life, is a single entity comprised of all of the facets. I cannot chop it up into seperate pieces.

..i so agree with this!!

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 9:02:05 AM

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Seems like a clarification needs to be made.

Kink does not equal D/s or Leather or conscious power dynamic. I'm not talking about randomly smacking your partner in front of your family but it's very very clear that even at family functions, if MsKitty says to me "I'm thirsty" my response better be "what do You want to drink?" and then to promptly go off and get it for Her. If we were closer in age and I was male someone might say "man you've got him trained, don't you?" as a passing joke and She'd be polite enough to smile and laugh and say "yes".

The dynamic of Her asking for a drink doesn't change. The expectation of my behavior as Her boi doesn't change. There is no "I'm not feeling like it" excuse to not perform to the negotiated expectations.

If someone tells me they're "24/7" I expect this style of behavior or better because otherwise it "when I feel like it" and that's not me.

boi
Future ruler of the Universe serving MsKitty
Silently plotting the revenge of the swine

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 9:19:05 AM

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Thank you for the clarification. It helps Me in My response.

No, I can't say I've ever heard the words "I don't feel like it" in My dynamic. I think I'd get the same baffled look on My face as MsK (My regards to her as always) would if you reacted that way or a number of s-types did that. It just isn't how it is. The truth is, you may not want to do it or be thrilled by it, but it's supposed to be a part of the arrangement.

Still, I have to agree a bit with what Shatki had to say. What's really lacking is a better term. Sure, the day to day activities of life look the same as those who don't participate in wiitwd. I think it's the best way we have to describe those things that we do that they also do, but much of it is just accomplishing the same tasks.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 9:52:53 AM

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Kink can be anything really. Some people may view their power exchange dynamic as their "kink". And maybe when something needs to be debated, discussed, re-negotiated etc, they are in a better frame of mind to step away from that dynamic, and see themselves as "vanilla" momentarily in order to solve their issue.

I don't much care if they call themselves kinky, vanilla, 24/7, butterscotch ripple, a friggin turkey sandwich, or all of the above. Doesn't matter if they separate these facets, or see them as a million different pieces, or if they see it as a role, or a 24/7. I'm all for people and couples who have found contentment and function in whatever ways work for them. That's two less lost and broken people in the world.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 10:01:24 AM

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I know that I say some things around here so that I will be understood and will speak of vanilla as a way of being understood. I do not think of myself as this or that or this during that time or situation. I am Donna... I am Lockit... I am dominant... woman... mother... bitch... wench... sicky... you name it. I am a blend of all these things. They are not different personalities all in one... they are all ME.

I might say something about vanilla aspects of life because people know what I am saying most often without a doubt. When I am dominant to someone, that is dominant all the time, although we may not be exhibiting our dominance or submission in public, the dynamic's are still there, just tempered for the comfort level of those we don't wish to force our dynamic upon for a number of reasons. Many people and I mean many... are not comfortable when they see someone being subjected to dominance because they view dominance as a bad word and they will be worried or stressed over someone they care about being involved. I will not do that to people. I do not need complete service from my submissive, but I know I could have it. I do not need to prove to the anyone what I have in my relationship or what we do to show we are full on or whatever.

I don't mean to be offensive here... but by being offended over some words or even their uesage and getting upset, it is almost as if you are calling those that don't do it the way you do... not really 24/7. I do not take off my dominant hat anymore than I ever take off my Donna hat or my Lockit hat. I am subtle when I need to be subtle.

When I had a submissive or have a submissive around me, most in my life know I am dominant, but I still do not exhibit all my domly ways in front of them. I want them open to what I do, not turned off by what they may see as monkey go and do... monkey trained and docile... and whip welding force that takes advantage. No, I want them to understand what I do on any level or place they are at and as I teach them, little by little what I do and they understand more, they even see themselves. It is just the mom in me and the instructor in me that I have always been that wants to present my life and truely what I see in their life that they can open up to in my being a good example and guide.

As I have slowly brought more of my personal life to the adults around me, they have opened up and have explored their own lives and desires and I am watching them bloom. Just the shock of them seeing the movie the secretary and pulling it out to read it... was enought to know they were not ready to see my spank a butt in a sense. I had to go slow and I did. Now, they openly admit who they are and they have bloomed! Had I forced the issue... talked about what I did more... had I made my submissive back then fetch for me, serve for me even in a silent way, they would have seen it differently and would have closed up because of the social responses they have been taught and taught in a big part by me! I worked in domestic abuse and such all their lives! My um's actually came to live in the shelter I directed and we made headlines by doing it.

No... I live exactly who I am at all times and part of that is social reformer against abuse and what some might see as abuse isn't abuse... but until they know that and see more like I do... I will temper in a vanilla situation for the good of all. Any submissive I have will be just fine with that and we won't lose on ounce of dynamic in the process. I don't have to prove who I am. I just am.

God... my morning is rough trying to speak with any sense at all... jeezzzzzzz

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 10:03:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Sorry...I read repeatedly about people having "vanilla sides" which refers to mood swings, attitudes, PMS, and various other people stuff.

What I don't get is people who claim to be "24/7" saying they have a "vanilla side" to their relationship (not lives) or saying that they can and do "step out of their roles" to resolve conflict. Last I checked 24/7 means 24/7 which means non-stop. Also, even as a s-type, I don't have to "step out of my role" to be clear about my boundaries, what's going on for me, or to state what I need. This isn't a "role" like role-playing. It's a role within my relationship that offers little to no room to change based on a momentary issue that can be resolved through talking to each other like people (because s-types are people too!...well...non-people...anyways).

I just don't understand this whole change the relationship dynamic for a temporary (hours or days) amount of time to fit the mood someone is in (obviously I'm not talking about outside individuals being involved...just those in the relationship). To me that means there's a major breakdown somewhere in the relationship.

I can just see that working here....

me-"I'm not a servant right now! I've stepped out of my role damnit!"

Ma'am-"You what?! boi, have you lost your damn mind?"

boi
Future ruler of the Universe serving MsKitty
Silently plotting the revenge of the swine

It could be semantics, and it could be that someone is attempting to do or try something that may not be a natural part of their personality, so they perceive themselves as going in and out of "vanilla". Some like to identify particular behaviors or activities as "vanilla". For me, in a relationship there is no vanilla or D/s, it's all part of the whole. However, I do think a constant awareness of our positions and relationship to one another is very important. I also believe that each position contains both its responsibilities and its benefits. I think what could happen is say a sub really doesn't agree or like what the D tells them to do and they balk or resist. To get out of having to adhere to the agreement between them, they "go vanilla". That seems to relieve them of the responsibilities they accepted when they made the agreement to participate in a D/s relationship. But the fact is, at least to me, all they're really doing is breaking down the agreement, making it less secure and reliable. So call it what you will, but it's kind of like saying I agree to do your yard work in exchange for such n such and then because of whatever you say - oh well I know I "said" but now I feel this so I want a break from our agreement to uhm do my own thing and well - I'll get back to you when I'm ready.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 10:45:34 AM

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BoiJen, I always get such a kick out of you. : ) I feel the same way that you do. I live the role of a slave. It is not playacting a role, but is a term I use as a self definition.

There are times when roles may get temporarily reversed. Say a Master needs to go to the doctor, and the slave happens to know something about his condition. This is something that many would consider something "vanilla", and she may tell him things like "make sure you ask the doctor ... and be sure to let him know what current medications you are on". She has just given him directions, may not have used the phrase "with all due respect" or something similar, yet she was still serving him. She only stepped out of her role if they both have a definition of her role as being only during certain times, like a session. The definition needs to come from inside that relationship. That's why definitions such as vanilla time, sub vs. slave, Dom vs. Master, poly, etc. are so difficult to give a broad definition to. Different people attach their own meanings to it.

Let it roll off your back. There is no official rulebook with preset definitions. Live your life the way you see is best for you and let others do the same.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 10:54:02 AM

Kaiel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Seems like a clarification needs to be made.

Kink does not equal D/s or Leather or conscious power dynamic. I'm not talking about randomly smacking your partner in front of your family but it's very very clear that even at family functions, if MsKitty says to me "I'm thirsty" my response better be "what do You want to drink?" and then to promptly go off and get it for Her. If we were closer in age and I was male someone might say "man you've got him trained, don't you?" as a passing joke and She'd be polite enough to smile and laugh and say "yes".

The dynamic of Her asking for a drink doesn't change. The expectation of my behavior as Her boi doesn't change. There is no "I'm not feeling like it" excuse to not perform to the negotiated expectations.

If someone tells me they're "24/7" I expect this style of behavior or better because otherwise it "when I feel like it" and that's not me.

boi
Future ruler of the Universe serving MsKitty
Silently plotting the revenge of the swine

boi,

I agree with you... actually whole-heartedly! The dynamic between My husband/sub does not change regardless of where W/we are.

he is My sub at home, at the movies, at the library, at Christmas dinner w/ the family etc...
However, things are of course "toned down" a bit when interacting with 'vanilla types'... but nothing changes between U/us. he always walks on My right, he always takes care of any needs I have when out and about and is always serving Me.

Of course I won't "randomly slap him' at Christmas dinner if he does something I don't approve. But, I sure do make a mental note to handle it as soon as W/we get home!

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 11:04:05 AM

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There is this great advantage to living in the South. People don't tend to raise a brow when a submissive male does the very same things that a Southern Gentleman might do. I'm very much hoping that this won't become a problem for Me when I move back west.

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RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant - 5/11/2009 11:06:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaiel

However, things are of course "toned down" a bit when interacting with 'vanilla types'... but nothing changes between U/us. he always walks on My right, he always takes care of any needs I have when out and about and is always serving Me.

Of course I won't "randomly slap him' at Christmas dinner if he does something I don't approve. But, I sure do make a mental note to handle it as soon as W/we get home!

In all my relationships, no matter if there was a D/s factor involved or not, the guy would walk on the side of the street (not the right side but actually the side where the traffic was old fashioned "protection"), took care of my needs and wants and tried to make my life pleasant, I wouldn't consider that submissive behaviour at all, I consider that being a gentleman and I expect nothing less from a person I decide to be with.

Same with not approving with some actions, I would not have it "out" in front of an audience, I rather wait until we are at home, address and handle it there as I would consider it impolite and rude to involve others in something so private, no matter if it is D/s or just a domestic disagreement.

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(in reply to Kaiel)

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