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Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 8:05:48 AM

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I am not the type to talk about other subs - past or current - unless it's really important to bring up. If I am talking to a new/potential sub, I feel like speaking about another man, either in the context of 'what we did last night' or 'what plans we have' is not really any of his business.

Even though there are "other subs" in the picture, I sometimes feel like if I don't bring it up now and then, a sub I am courting, getting to know or even playing with may think he's the only one. I'm married and I have multiple partners, and this is in my profile. To keep bringing it up I feel would be overkill. But if I am investing a lot of mindshare or attention on a man, if he wants to believe he's going to be the only one, what is stopping him? Then the crash when he finds out he isn't - and, I feel like that means I am hiding something.

Awhile back I was having a great exchange on this site or another bdsm personals site with a sub and we were past the point of phone, emailed daily, I was sending him toys, there was a possibility for a meeting once my schedule brought me to his neck of the woods. There was great chemistry. Casually one day I made mention of my husband (not even kink related) and there was dead silence. It turns out this sub had never read my profile! Or any of the reference materials I had send him that were non-kinky.

The problem would be solved in new relationships if I made it a point to reference "my other subs," or "my main pet," or "my husband" or "one of the guys I am seeing," but to me that seems impolite. That's probably just some traditional wholesome wiring in me. Is it?

Akasha

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 8:11:35 AM

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Perhaps you might want to, in your initial discussions really early on, simply ask and make sure they they understand that you have a husband and other partners. Never assume someone has read your profile, its asking for trouble. It is overkill, and fairly rude, to continually bring up other partners to someone you are courting, since it will sound like you are comparing. However, making a point to confirm they exist in the very beginning is not bragging, not hurtful and simply making sure that neither of you will be wasting your time pursuing something that has no possible future.

DV

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 8:25:55 AM

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At the outset, I don't assume there are no other subs unless it is explicitly said so. With encountering so many people who identify as poly, I am open to the idea that there might be others even if the relationship proceeds to have the type of energy you describe. When I hear a vague reference to existing social plans, that is a reminder to me that there might be other people who are part of the picture.

In my opinion, clarification up front is better than recurring references to other relationships simply for the purpose of reminding of those relationships. The references to others would feel more awkward where there is not any explicit discussion of the nature of relationship and if it is casual dating until a relationship takes on greater significance beyond casual dating. In some situations where the woman was poly, I had met and known her significant other and any such references occurred as part of natural conversation and did not feel awkward. For me, knowing that the relationship was poly helped better define expectations.

I wonder if an explicit discussion about your poly relationship in the beginning would help emphasize the point. Something along the lines of:

I am married. Have you encountered such a relationship before, or do you have any questions about how it impacts you?

While I have some knowledge of poly, I do not identify as poly. I know there are plenty of resources for those into poly, and there might be discussions or tips for how else to approach this issue in such resources.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 9:02:18 AM

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I am poly and I put this one the table right from the beginning. I don't attempt to mislead anyone about the fact that I am already married and I already have a collared sub. I also tell people right from the beginning that I play (S/m play) with others. I don't rely on the profile for that, as I want to make sure whoever is coming into the situation knows how I do things and what they can expect.

I'm more of an "O" type poly person, meaning that all of the people are connected in some way. This doesn't mean that everyone is connected sexually. It means that everyone is fully knowledgeable of each other, communicates with each other, and should be able to minimally be courteous to each other. That means I expect them to interact with each other on a friendly basis. When that doesn't happen, it doesn't work well. My husband and My sub are My family as far as I'm concerned, so they are naturally going to come up in conversation. If a new sub coming in can't handle that, they aren't going to fit Me.

I don't see that as bragging. I see that as the new sub being involved in hearing about My life. I'm not saying I'm repeating stories such as the beating clip took or the great sex I had with My husband. Still, I don't see anything wrong with saying clip and I are going to an event or MP and I are taking a trip to San Fransisco. That's part of My life and if this new person wants to be a part of My life, they are going to have to expect to hear about these things. When there's an issue with that, I've found that it goes down the tubes pretty quickly.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 9:06:50 AM

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To clarify, I am in an open relationship, not poly. Is there a reason people mix and match these terms so much - I see them as VERY different dynamics.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 9:22:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
To clarify, I am in an open relationship, not poly. Is there a reason people mix and match these terms so much - I see them as VERY different dynamics.

Why are they used interchangeably? I hear poly more often in BDSM relationships, perhaps because it is also considered an alternative lifestyle and has significant presence in BDSM relationships. This more common presence of the term and concept might cause it to be used or assumed more often than it should be.

Also, I think open relationships and poly relationships are not completely disjoint. I think what distinguishes the two is that they start with different objectives with respect to emotional intimacy. However, open relationships can achieve emotional intimacy even if it is not sought as an objective. In some relationships that may be the cue to end the relationship. This potential for overlap might also have a role in the mix and match.

In any case, they are indeed different dynamics and that is a valid clarification. Some of the points raised about poly relationships might still apply to the open relationship: the various people meeting or knowing of each other, types of communication that occur in the beginning, etc.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 9:44:26 AM

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That's sad, Akasha.

Sometimes it seems to me that the 'dating game' (call it what you will) takes every conceivable art of diplomacy. For me, the hardest thing is hearing what I don't want to hear. The next hardest thing is telling people things I know they don't want to hear.

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 9:51:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That's sad, Akasha.

Sometimes it seems to me that the 'dating game' (call it what you will) takes every conceivable art of diplomacy. For me, the hardest thing is hearing what I don't want to hear. The next hardest thing is telling people things I know they don't want to hear.

One of the things I am seeing this time around is that many sub males are "settling" for situations they don't want, but think it will be ok, they at least want their foot in the door. What they really should be seeking is a romantic, boyfriend/girlfriend, eventual wife (in some cases) situation, and even though they say, "Oh, no this is PERFECT for me, I can handle it" they don't realize until later that they really want, need and deserve more. By then it's too late and it's messy for all.

It's the same thing when a sub has a list of fetishes and fetish x is at the top, and you say, "Thank you, but to be honest, fetish x is not my thing," and they say "Oh it's not that important to me." Then three weeks later, "I wish we could try a little fetish x...I really need it, it's part of my submissive identity."

Do subs ever reject femdoms, or do they simply enter into it hoping for a change or accepting the shortcomings because it's better than nothing? I guess that's a different thread.

Akasha

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(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 10:02:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
One of the things I am seeing this time around is that many sub males are "settling" for situations they don't want, but think it will be ok, they at least want their foot in the door. What they really should be seeking is a romantic, boyfriend/girlfriend, eventual wife (in some cases) situation, and even though they say, "Oh, no this is PERFECT for me, I can handle it" they don't realize until later that they really want, need and deserve more.

<snip>

Do subs ever reject femdoms, or do they simply enter into it hoping for a change or accepting the shortcomings because it's better than nothing? I guess that's a different thread.

I see relationships, compatibility, and chemistry to come in shades of grey and not black or white. I might see a relationship and recognize that it does not have potential to be an exclusive LTR. For instance, if I meet someone who lives far away where neither plans to relocate, or the age difference it too great, or there is some but not enough interpersonal compatibility, I would not see it to have much potential to be an LTR but I might still participate in it. I have had these types of interactions and consider them happy experiences even if now we have lost touch. To convey my point, I can draw an analogy to friends. There are some friends who are close because there is that much more on which to base the friendship. And there are some friends who are not as close. The friends who are not as close still mutually see significance.

I think this philosophy makes more sense when one's pool of compatible partners is limited by having a non-mainstream lifestyle interest where it could take a long time to find a long-term partner.

Thus, I am open to entering a relationship that is not a perfect match. However, I do so for enjoying what it is and not with intentions to get my foot in the door.

When there is not adequate compatibility or chemistry, subs do exercise that choice.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 11/3/2009 10:09:09 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/3/2009 2:08:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
To clarify, I am in an open relationship, not poly. Is there a reason people mix and match these terms so much - I see them as VERY different dynamics.

They are very different dynamics in My opinion as well. By saying that I'm poly, I'm acknowledging that My situation is different than yours, so My methods may not work for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
One of the things I am seeing this time around is that many sub males are "settling" for situations they don't want, but think it will be ok, they at least want their foot in the door. What they really should be seeking is a romantic, boyfriend/girlfriend, eventual wife (in some cases) situation, and even though they say, "Oh, no this is PERFECT for me, I can handle it" they don't realize until later that they really want, need and deserve more. By then it's too late and it's messy for all.

It's the same thing when a sub has a list of fetishes and fetish x is at the top, and you say, "Thank you, but to be honest, fetish x is not my thing," and they say "Oh it's not that important to me." Then three weeks later, "I wish we could try a little fetish x...I really need it, it's part of my submissive identity."

Do subs ever reject femdoms, or do they simply enter into it hoping for a change or accepting the shortcomings because it's better than nothing? I guess that's a different thread.

Akasha

I'm not so sure it is settling, but I do see how some enter this situation because something is better than nothing. If they haven't experienced being involved with a Dominant who is also involved with others (husband, sub, whatever role), some of them think it's going to be fine. Then, reality hits and they come to the realization that the Dominant loves more than one person. Some people are more geared to the bf/gf type of submission, which is more prevalent in monogamous arrangements than any of the scenarios where multiple people exist. In My personal experience, I haven't been successful when the person on one side of the kneel wants to be romantically "in love" and the other wants love of a different type. On the other hand, those who know the situation and the ground rules going in have been wonderful additions in My life.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 12:06:32 PM

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Being honest about the fact you are not exclusive to any male is always a wise idea from the outset. For some men, that's an impossible arrangement and I can respect that. I personally do not waste time with those who would be uninterested in serving selflessly in a home with multiple slaves. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as simply picking men who are ok with polyandry, either. Men, even those seeking to serve as "slaves", tend to grow romantically jealous, demanding and entitled over time. I'm sure you have found that to be true in dealing with more than a few. The man who finds pleasure in his servitude through the act of serving in itself is the rare gem that interests me; I have little tolerance for those who would assign to me any sort of romantic obligation for their submission. Being upfront from the start is pivotal.

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 12:27:39 PM

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Being upfront from the start is pivotal.

I don't think that's going to cut it all of the time, Saharah. No matter how well you think you're armoured, Cupid still manages to get one of his nasty little arrows through when you least expect it.

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 12:30:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Being upfront from the start is pivotal.

I don't think that's going to cut it all of the time, Saharah. No matter how well you think you're armoured, Cupid still manages to get one of his nasty little arrows through when you least expect it.

I think everyone will agree being honest from the start is a wise idea, despite possible complications down the road. But, thanks Captain Obvious!

< Message edited by SaharahEve -- 11/4/2009 12:32:29 PM >

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 1:17:23 PM

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But, thanks Captain Obvious!

Ach, well, maybe it's me, personally, who's not too good at this. More than a few times I've got one of those pesky arrows into me when I think I've got a non-romantic relationship with a woman totally ordered, sensibly, into place. One day, some tiny little thing like the way she swishes her hair in a certain way, and there it f***king is again, that arrow firmly lodged in my arse. C'est la vie.

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 1:33:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

But, thanks Captain Obvious!

Ach, well, maybe it's me, personally, who's not too good at this. More than a few times I've got one of those pesky arrows into me when I think I've got a non-romantic relationship with a woman totally ordered, sensibly, into place. One day, some tiny little thing like the way she swishes her hair in a certain way, and there it f***king is again, that arrow firmly lodged in my arse. C'est la vie.

I think there are two different sides to that. If such an arrow should strike, and it's not what both parties want, does that not make their non romantic agreement void?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 1:36:58 PM

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Yes, it should do. But the one who's become romantically-inclined isn't going to want to admit it . . .

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 2:05:19 PM

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You misunderstand, I think, Peon. I encourage (in fact I prefer it) love in my slaves. Love of it's own accord isn't the problem for some men; it is
jealousy and willful entitlement, which has far more to do with love for oneself than love for me.

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 2:46:50 PM

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Love of it's own accord isn't the problem for some men; it is
jealousy and willful entitlement

I don't doubt it, Saharah. Even pet cats and dogs will get jealous of other cats and dogs who come close to their mistresses or masters.

It's difficult to theorise about love - we all know that. It's foxed the best minds since time immemorial. Whatever: I have a little theory that when you love someone, it's as though they've become part of you, part of your body, even. I first thought that up when I'd just seen my ex off at the airport for a six month job across the Atlantic. It felt like a part of me had just been amputated: the nerve-endings told me she was still with me; the evidence said otherwise.

Another thought: even when the love we're talking about is that of a particular God or Goddess (of the traditional, not the BDSM, sort - Yahweh or Allah, for instance), it's still a jealous sort of love. The god in question supports you, not your enemy. He or she never betrays you.

, which has far more to do with love for oneself than love for me

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RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 4:12:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Love of it's own accord isn't the problem for some men; it is
jealousy and willful entitlement

I don't doubt it, Saharah. Even pet cats and dogs will get jealous of other cats and dogs who come close to their mistresses or masters.

To a degree, a little bit of jealousy and protectiveness is normal. To a degree, it's actually sweet. It's when these feelings become so all-consuming in a man that he subverts his relationship with me.

As for dogs, I think men have a lot to learn from them. ;-)

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Saharah

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

nanshakh.com

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Do you talk about your other subs or is that bragging? - 11/4/2009 5:27:44 PM

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My immediate and overwhelming response to the subject line of the OP is:

No. Mentioning other partners is not 'bragging', it is simply necessary and sane. If you honestly feel you can't or shouldn't mention your husband or some other submissive to a guy, and that he needs to pretend he's Mr. One and Only in order for a relationship with you to be worthwhile--yeah. Maybe he's not the guy for you. Denial is a bus that only stops in Crazyville. You are not and you will never be anything but a polyandrist domme. And people who are not in touch with reality do not make good play partners, no matter how cute they are.

Personally, I know that "dead silence" response you're describing very well. It's not uncommon even from men who KNOW that you have at least one other man in your life, who have shaken that person's hand and spoken to him in person, who know that you love and care for this person and that your dynamic is sexual and/or intimate in some way, blah blah "I've been completely honest 'til the cows come home" blah.

One of the ways that monogamous people cope with unwanted polyamory is through denial. Although they intellectually accept that "the other man" or "the other woman" or "the other apartment complex full of people you play with" might exist, functionally on a day to day basis they prefer to forget and they try to pretend that no one else exists.

Then each and every time they are reminded that The Other is in your life, whether you are saying that you are not available for a certain weekend, or you innocently chuckle over an email someone sent you, or you receive a planned phone call, or whatever--suddenly there is the crashing silence/tantrum/awkwardness and once again you feel the incredibly annoying sense of being morally compromised.

As if by being happy and harmonious with this self-deluding goof five minutes before, you were somehow colluding with a lie that he was telling himself...and now your honesty is being punished because you've ruined everything!

It's a not-very-subtle form of bullying and emotional blackmail. Not going to bother with the usual "bad thing = ditch him" nonsense--every man and woman in this world has to decide how much bullshit they're willing to tolerate in their relationships. I will say that it's not something I'd ever accept from a casual play date, though. With casual partners, that weird possession/denial anti-polyamory dance is way too inappropriate to be anything but spooky.

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(in reply to SaharahEve)

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