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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support


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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 10/27/2010 7:39:39 PM   
MsKaraZ


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I must admit this thread is very well done and all the inputs are very insightful. So many different ideals and personalities that go into this and have produced a well defined, very diverse forum.

So with that I would like to offer some on my own insight as well. I have been dressing for many years. I have on occasion been know to probably apply a little too much makeup and I will admit that the advice of less is best, is a very good piece of advice for that. Confidence plays a very big part in how you portray yourself and your partner. You are who you are. Be that person and be proud of it. Whether you are doing it for yourself or for your partner, be proud, be you.

One last bit of advice I would like to offer is, dress for the occasion. A wedding gown at a fast food place or the local market may not be appropriate. Dressing for the occasion can help boast your confidence and portray you in a nice positive image. Now that I have said that, if the time calls for the “slut of the week” look, by all means strut your stuff and show the world.

Keep the great insight coming and for all the parties involved, my best to you.

(in reply to paulas)
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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/3/2011 5:27:26 PM   
gmikeisbad


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I read a story called the Silken Illusion.  A fan made these drawings. http://www.flickr.com/photos/barbdrawings/sets/72157604755648384/ It is a story of a group of women, a kind of club I guess, finds and emasculates young men for their entertainment.  Like living dress up dolls. Do women find this stuff interesting enough to actually participate?  Many women I have met and spoken about this seem to have a problem with the homosexual overtones.  I am not gay, I do not have the urge to sleep with other men, for me it’s the power exchange and the objectification that I find attractive.  I know I could do more to manifest these realities but I am unsure about how to proceed.  My biggest question is this: What conditions would need to be met for a dominant woman to consider going to a party where men were bound in embarrassing and objectifying clothes and possibly participating in the dressing up or other activities?  What would you like to see there? In the story there are some nonconsensual and extreme aspects.  They are thrown in for spice I’m sure.  Help me out.  If you were to go to your ideal bondage dress up party what would it be like?

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/3/2011 10:35:15 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmikeisbad

I read a story called the Silken Illusion.  A fan made these drawings. http://www.flickr.com/photos/barbdrawings/sets/72157604755648384/ It is a story of a group of women, a kind of club I guess, finds and emasculates young men for their entertainment.  Like living dress up dolls. Do women find this stuff interesting enough to actually participate?  Many women I have met and spoken about this seem to have a problem with the homosexual overtones.  I am not gay, I do not have the urge to sleep with other men, for me it’s the power exchange and the objectification that I find attractive.  I know I could do more to manifest these realities but I am unsure about how to proceed.  My biggest question is this: What conditions would need to be met for a dominant woman to consider going to a party where men were bound in embarrassing and objectifying clothes and possibly participating in the dressing up or other activities?  What would you like to see there? In the story there are some nonconsensual and extreme aspects.  They are thrown in for spice I’m sure.  Help me out.  If you were to go to your ideal bondage dress up party what would it be like?


You know, I don't think you are going to get much traction here for that.  What you have written about is almost pure fantasy, and while there are indeed women out there who are into more feminine guys, they are few in number and most are looking for something beyond a single-threaded kink that is pretty much solely focused on the submissive.  If you read a bit in to the posts here, look at some profiles, you will see that most of the Ladies here are looking for more broad-spectrum D/s relationships rather than a relationship focused on the single kink of crossdressing humiliation.  Further, that whole concept of using crossdressing for humiliation of males has a very controversial following depending on how the humiliation is couched - i.e., if there is any hint that the humiliation comes from a concept in the male of women being somehow "lesser", and thereby being made to look like one is demeaning...that is going to rightfully spark anger and negative reactions in the Dominant Lady set, not to mention many women in general.

I am actually attending a get together this weekend that is about as close as you will come to what you have described, and yet it will be markedly different.  Two dominant Ladies and their submissives, and a third guy under consideration.  While all the boys there are femme, that fact will be celebrated rather than used for humiliation.  What we wear will not be the linchpin of the event, but a sideline more important to us than the Ladies involved.  Everyone there will either be in a committed D/s relationship that includes much more than just femme boys, or seeking same.  Much of it will be vanilla and D/s a foundation of commonality that we all share - and friendship.  If there is play, it will likely mostly involve pain and pleasure play and while we will all be dressed en'femme, our play will have little to do with dressing in clothing.  If we go out in public, we will do so not as sissified males, but as people being their authentic selves and embracing it as such.  We will be dressed in age appropriate women's clothing and either presenting as wholly female, or as a more feminine-looking male...we will not impose kinks on anyone else in any way.  The Women who we serve do not demean or degrade us, but love us and look on our submission and service as something that they enjoy and value.  Being femme is only a -part- of who we are as whole people and the relationships we hold with those we love and serve.

That is more the reality of what your post is about...

Hope that helps, and welcome to CM.

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 5/3/2011 10:46:26 PM >


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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/4/2011 12:55:20 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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While I would participate in cross-dressing as part of a dollification scene, I agree with everything Otter said.  If I'm going to engage in cross-dressing, then I will only do so with someone who is a well-rounded person and with whom I have a relationship based on shared interests, values and goals.  I have several friends who are some flavor of genderqueer, intersex or transgender and I've watched them struggle with their identities and varying degrees of body dysphoria.  It's extremely important to me to approach cross-dressing from a sensitive and positive place with no hint of humiliation involved.

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/4/2011 8:05:01 PM   
OralCuckGurl


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I too echo the thankfulness for the positivity to this thread.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/8/2011 2:53:57 AM   
tvsue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

While cross-dressing isn't my thing; I do have a friend who likes to get a bit girly. He's a dear friend of mine and I help him with make up on occassion. He's relatively petite to begin with and doesn't have much in the way of facial hair. While he isn't quite passable he does enjoy the femininity and isn't into the humiliation. I think what turns me off most is the approach by some who find it humiliating to be female. I enjoy being a woman, very much so, and when one tells me its humiliating to them to become female, it just hurts my feminine pride. I don't think I'll every fully appreciate it the way some people do, but I'm not opposed to those who genuinely enjoy being feminine.


as much i find it humiliating to be dressed as a female its only my way to try and emulate the superior sex
curtsy

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/12/2011 11:23:41 PM   
gmikeisbad


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  Thanks Otter and everyone for you considered words. I am aware of the line of reasoning that if being a woman is considered less than a man then cross dressing as humiliation is offensive as it reinforces a negative inaccurate stereotype.  I am not sure where the truth actually falls here. The heart of my question was ‘Do Dominant women like dressing up submissive men AND objectifying them?’ further, ‘Is a group gathering of this type ever likely?’   I chose the internet fiction because I quite liked it and it seems to have many of the themes I see stated by other men and objected to by women. This is an oddity where I see mostly reciprocal tastes.  Personally I have never thought of gender in terms of weaker and stronger.  Is a helicopter stronger than an airplane?   While I would be the first to put up my hand for such a gathering, the reason for my post was not advertising.  I think that the objectification and humiliation is separate from the cross dressing or presentation of men as women (or dolls).   There are very few things men can wear that are both overtly sexual and socially acceptable.  Or am I just seeing through my eyes and overlooked the appeal of men’s clothes?  I really think it’s about sexualisation of men, maybe objectifying and Dominating them beyond the point of the socially acceptable.    I guess it’s hard to see the distinction between pushing a social norm and mocking women for supposedly being (limited to) objects of desire.  The humiliation is that of a man being (or wanting to be) sexualized because men are typically not.   For example, a guy in Speedos (bathers) at the beach, norm and fine. Same guy, 100 feet away, Speedos in a beach front café, norm pushed, a little kinky and fun.  It’s not the swimmer who is being diminished here.  Looking like a swimmer is not explicitly saying swimmers are lesser people.  It’s sex.  The sexyness is the attraction. Thank you all once again for being patient and not just canning me as being a clueless pig.  Clueless yes, pig, no. gmike.

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/13/2011 2:29:45 AM   
LadyConstanze


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Shoes and clothes... I know a lot of guys are terribly embarrassed to buy shoes and clothes, but come on, with thrift shops and charity shops it's so easy to find normal dresses and the excuse of a "fancy dress party" is simply fine, I was always a bit peeved when guys wanted to be feminized and all they had was some tacky undies and an ill fitting wig. A decent pair of shoes (not too high, if you stumble like a giraffe with broken legs the heels are far too high, less is more in this case) and a dress works wonders, and as much as you want to look like Marilyn Monroe, if you have a beard and you're build like a Russian shot putter, it's not going to work.

Get a few essentials, once you know your size as a female, you can order on the internet, anonymous, cheap, home delivery... Get a bunch of scarfs, maybe very stretchy gloves and play around a bit, don't expect your play partner to do the transformation for you, much more fun if you're working together on a look...

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/13/2011 11:55:37 AM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmikeisbad
The heart of my question was ‘Do Dominant women like dressing up submissive men AND objectifying them?’ further, ‘Is a group gathering of this type ever likely?’  


Yes. 

But the reality of how such a thing might happen is very different from the fantasy of it. 

I believe that the reality of it is always going to involve some other primary activity going on and while dressing and objectification may be things that occur, they will almost never the focus or the goal of the event.  For example, there are kinky dinners and tea parties that occur where a variety of folk might get together to enjoy food, company, play, or a concept like "having tea".  You might end up with cross-dressed males, sissies, or trans-folk there in a service mode and in that setting, an individual might find themselves being eyed, pinched, fawned over, or even played with by a Dominant.  But you might just end up serving all day and no-one pays you any particular attention.  And, you likely will have to have dressed yourself and be actively participatory (i.e., gonna have to actually work - there is a joke in BDSM circles that S&M does not mean "Stand and Model" )

If you are lucky enough to have found a Lady who is open or even interested in your being girlie (however that manifests itself), then She might be interested in participating in your getting ready and being girlie...

I guess that what I am saying is that the fantasy seems to always involve multiple women getting together with the express purpose to feminize a boy.  In the entire Denver Metro area, I could not put together five women interested in doing that to someone they would know and love, let alone some stranger or even an acquaintance.  We know of one other couple in Denver, one in Boulder, and that is pretty much it for our entire region.  It isn't that there are not Femdoms...it is that there are not that many Femdom's interested at all in that sort of play - the reasons for that are all over these forums if you search.

And so that grim picture might evoke feelings of despair...however...

I LOVE objectification.  I want nothing more in the world to be -pretty- and to be -desired- and to be a certain someone's -sex toy-.  Sound familiar?

But those three objectives in and of themselves, do little to establish a relationship with another person, nor can they completely define the whole of my being or all that I want out of a kinky or girlie life.  This is the mistake that I think many guys make - not totally thinking these things through and thus they come from a place where they are leading with their kink or fetish - the weakest link in the whole relationship chain.

When you observe Dominant Ladies as a group, you can also gather some general things about them.  And while this is a generalization, it holds true for most:

Dominant women by and large are in or are looking for a primary -relationship-.
Dominant women are looking for actual -submission-.
Dominant women are looking for -service-.
and
Dominant women are -NOT looking to feminize men-

And so when you look at that disparity of numbers and general lack of interest, I believe that one has to come to the conclusion that in order to have even a little of what drives us...we have to dig deeper - make ourselves more than just our desires for kinky girlie play.

We have to embrace -the Other-, the Lady...

When we start thinking outside of our own desires to what that Other might be interested in, we unlock a whole world.  Hey, there's that Dominant Lady and suddenly you SEE that there is a fully realized person there who is more than just a life support system for our girlie kink.  That person is most often a human first, a female second, and a dominant third...and a thousand other things that make a whole rounded kinky person with diverse interests...

If you look at Kink, it is not hard to see that it is a reciprocal type of system - both parties give into it to make the whole of it work. And it is also an intentionally unfair system - SHE is in charge and the focus is (and should be) on Her - here's where that "submissive and service" stuff comes in and hopefully that is something a guy actually -feels- and -wants-...the pool of women becomes unbelievably smaller if you are just a girlie bottom...

And so given that I know what I want, I can pretty easily find out what She wants (read her profile), and I know that She is more than just a life support system for my kink, and I know that I am going to be required to -put in- in order to -get out-... My first line is not going to be "I want to be girlie, how can you help me with that..." but "Hi, my name is Michael Sabene..."

And things proceed from there, hopefully with the Lady being the focus, and the guy understanding that the best way to get what he wants, is by giving Her what She wants.

I have seen that people will tolerate or even embrace almost ANY kink or desire from someone that they know, trust, and feel affection for.  My Lady was not looking for a girlie boy.  She was certainly -open- to one and that was essential, but it was not really on her radar.  And she is not at all into concepts of forced fem, and yet she does some of that now with me because she loves me and wants me to be happy and she knows that sort of thing makes me feel good.

And when you take the whole of what I have said here, and try to apply it to an online search...wow does that become next to freakin' impossible.  And that is why I totally embrace getting out into your local community and meeting people face to face, making friends and building a whole -kinky girlie life- where you are not just some guy with a weird kink on the computer, but a real human being who has thought all this through, knows what he wants, is willing to -give- in order to -get-, and is actively engaged with other people to accomplish his goals.

That to me feels so much better than the all too typical request from guys to Ladies to "take over my life" and "make me a girl".

And I think it is received much better as well, and significantly increases our chances of actually finding someone who is willing to engage with us to achieve our goals.

Hope that helps. 


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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/13/2011 7:04:04 PM   
gmikeisbad


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Thanks Lady Constanze and again Otter. I am tempted to sum up… I have observed many of the same things about men wanting to start with the kink before the relationship.  I think it’s part ignorance, part lust and part defense mechanism.  Your thoughts have helped me and I’m sure will assist others in pursuit of similar goals. It has been a pleasure to read and makes me think your Mistress is a lucky women.  Why don’t they teach this in school? :)

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/15/2011 12:13:17 PM   
kickable


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Hi,
My impression is there are many levels to feminization. While it is fun to dream of being fully dressed in some sexy outfit, the reality is that it really takes a commitment to cross-dress and be attractive.
One mistress introduced me to an alternative that she liked. She had me wear panties and pantyhose under my clothing. This not only was a way of feminzation, but also reminded me constantly of her control. Unfortunately, the training didn't progress as the relationship ended. I think the next step was maxi pads, which would been  interesting.
Feminization training could take many forms.
kick
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

Some recent thought-provoking threads, including the one regarding the FAQ, have prompted me to try this.  Please bear with me as this is something of an experiment.  It may or may not succeed, but I think it will be an interesting endeavor. 
 
The Ask A Mistress forum sees a lot of activity surrounding male cross-dressers and those who enjoy the idea of "forced" feminization.  However, posts regarding this fetish frequently meet with mixed results with regard to their acceptance.  I would like to dedicate this thread as a "safe zone" where anyone who enjoys feminization can come to learn how to be the best girly boi he can be, to offer tips and advice to other CDs, or to find herself a sissy maid.
 
If you aren't interested in this particular kink, that is your right and no one will ask you to accept someone who enjoys it into your life.  All I ask is that, if you don't appreciate this kink, you simply respect the "safe zone" and please post your thoughts on this fetish in another place.
 
Let's see how it goes.

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/18/2011 4:23:33 AM   
sissyboybrian


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Ty for this forum topic I so agree that society looks down on those of us who cd well at least men anyway and its nice to have a place to seek advice and also support. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder as they say I guess I'm one lucky cd for having a fiancee that accepts my kinks and desires. She is also in the process of learning to be dominant with me which I so love and also I'm guilty of liking to dress trashy sometimes but I feel women de
serve to be treated with respect and dignity they after all are gods most beautiful creation. So once agin ty for starting this thread

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 6/25/2011 2:06:34 AM   
iwearpanties


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WOW!!!!!!! I have to say thank you so so much this is a frist ? OK well the only thread here at Collar Me that i have seen that wasnt shameing or flameing those of us who like and enjoy the softer side . Every ones who posted here gave so many great tips n ideas and you made it feel so so great to know there are some who are ok with guys like my self that in there daily life are Masculine and in control but behind closed doors have a carveing or love of being that spieacl sub. panty boi or just a plain ole fetish lover.....

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 6/25/2011 1:54:40 PM   
strangedesire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I have several friends who are some flavor of genderqueer, intersex or transgender and I've watched them struggle with their identities and varying degrees of body dysphoria.  It's extremely important to me to approach cross-dressing from a sensitive and positive place with no hint of humiliation involved.


While I wouldn't necessarily rule out humiliation entirely, I tend to agree.

I really, strongly recommend that men interested in getting in touch with their feminine side do some reading on trans issues and genderqueer theories. There are a lot of people who work, play, and willfully transgress gender other than sexually-focused male crossdressers. Their perspective can be extremely valuable.

Also, I find myself put off by people who are basing their ideas purely on feminization in porn, or who have obviously never contemplated this kind of thing outside of a sexual area. Bear in mind that "being a woman" may be about feeling sexy and being sexually objectified for you, but people who live their lives as women probably feel differently.


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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 6/25/2011 2:09:43 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I have several friends who are some flavor of genderqueer, intersex or transgender and I've watched them struggle with their identities and varying degrees of body dysphoria.  It's extremely important to me to approach cross-dressing from a sensitive and positive place with no hint of humiliation involved.


While I wouldn't necessarily rule out humiliation entirely, I tend to agree.



Humilation isn't my kink, but I'm not opposed to it, generally speaking.  However, I don't want to do it based on the feminization.  I'll do it based on some other issue, no problem.  Just not on gender identity issues, if that makes sense. 
 
I agree with your suggestion to read up on trans and other gender issues.  I can't give any specific examples off the top of my head.  Do you have any recommendations?

_____________________________

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 6/25/2011 3:10:31 PM   
strangedesire


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Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw is fantastic, and very readable even for people who aren't familiar with the subject. Other books:
  • Read My Lips:sexual Subversion and the End of Gender, Riki Anne Wilchins (Pretty good, if I recall - a friend has my copy right now. May be outdated.)
  • Genderqueer: Voices from Beyond the Sexual Binary (Short stories and essays, decent but not fantastic.)
  • Transgender Warriors - Leslie Feinberg (I recall liking this, but it may be outdated.)
  • PoMoSexuals: Challenging Assumptions About Gender and Sexuality (Essays, readable and interesting.)
  • Judith Butler is apparently brilliant and impossibly dense
  • M. Butterfly, David Henry Hwang (Play is amazing, movie is awful.)
  • Normal - Amy Bloom (portraits of various trans people, somewhat bland.)
Memoirs that involve some gender variance:
  • Stone Butch Blues, Leslie Feinberg (depressing)
  • The Last Time I Wore A Dress, Dillon (Daphne) Scholinski (REALLY depressing)
  • She's Not There: A Life in Two Genders, Jennifer Finney Boylan (makes me smile)
Online, Erin Houdini has a great trans glossary on Google Docs and Fetlife. Jody Marksamer and Dylan Vade do a nice Trans 101. (Warning: .doc file.) Not Your Mom’s Trans 101 has a slightly different take on things. What is "Genderqueer"? has excellent definitions and a blog full of links. Ten years ago I did a lot of reading on livejournal, but the discussions have mostly moved, and I'm not sure where to find them. A certain breed of feminist blogs write on trans issues. Google is always good for specifics.


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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 4/30/2012 9:02:58 PM   
natalie1983


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Hello all,

This is a really lovely thread for sissies/fembois or whatever you want to call guys like me. I love wearing women's clothes and as a matter of fact do not wear male underwear anymore. So, I am not really into "forced feminization" since I love doing it anyway; but I have come across a few girls who think that "force feminizing" a guy is insulting to a woman and what not. I never could get that. Isn't this just a part of making a guy/sissy submit to a Woman and do as She says? Like molding a guy to be whom She wants? Any input into the argument would be gladly appericiated.


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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/1/2012 10:20:04 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: natalie1983

Hello all,

I have come across a few girls who think that "force feminizing" a guy is insulting to a woman and what not. I never could get that. Isn't this just a part of making a guy/sissy submit to a Woman and do as She says? Like molding a guy to be whom She wants? Any input into the argument would be gladly appericiated.


Well, I'll give you my $0.02 on this topic. Understand that this is actually a complex question and different women will probably have different answers.

First, there is the fact that most of the men who want "forced" feminization are just like you - they love women's clothes and they want to wear them as part of their kink. For the sake of discussion, let's say you and I were considering establishing a D/s relationship. I don't want to pretend to dominate you, I want to have real control over you. There's no force involved in feminizing you and I know it. If we're role-playing a coercion scene, that's fine, but don't insult my intelligence by pretending it's anything but a role-playing game. A lot of the guys who want forced femme don't understand the difference between role-playing as a bottom and sincere submission.

Next, is the problem of humiliation. A lot of the forced femme seekers want and expect to be humiliated as part of the scene. They want to be called things like "weak, pathetic worm" because they aren't "real" men - they're sissies! This type of humiliation runs roughshod over some big emotional triggers for a lot of women because they have, in effect, just said that a woman is weak, pathetic, less than human and not as good as a man. Society has been oppressing women for centuries using a lot of the same words (weak, inferior, sub-human, etc.). This is probably the biggest issue in the disdain for forced feminization.

Then, there is the issue of pornography vs. reality. Many, if not most, of the guys who go looking for forced femme watch and read a lot of porn. A lot. They don't grasp the fact that the way women are portrayed in porn videos/magazines/books is about as real as the blue alien chick in Avatar. Pornography caters to men's fantasies. Real women are human beings with needs, desires, emotions, and goals of our own. A lot of the guys who want the forced feminization fantasy treat women like walking, talking kink vending machines (there's that issue of women's oppression again) and seem to think they are entitled to have women cater to their porn-fueled fantasies. They become offended when we refuse, adding insult to injury.

Those are what I see as the three biggest reasons why a woman would find forced feminization insulting. There are probably others, but those are the main points.


_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to natalie1983)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/1/2012 11:07:14 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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I often understood forced feminization as "I want to live out my female side, but I want the pretense of force due to my own guilt issues"

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(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 5/2/2012 6:48:32 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: natalie1983

Hello all,

This is a really lovely thread for sissies/fembois or whatever you want to call guys like me. I love wearing women's clothes and as a matter of fact do not wear male underwear anymore. So, I am not really into "forced feminization" since I love doing it anyway; but I have come across a few girls who think that "force feminizing" a guy is insulting to a woman and what not. I never could get that. Isn't this just a part of making a guy/sissy submit to a Woman and do as She says? Like molding a guy to be whom She wants? Any input into the argument would be gladly appericiated.


You have to look into the base motivation of the guy for wanting to be made to be or look feminine. Is the motivation due to a basic belief in the guy that women are "weak" or "lesser" or "submissive by nature"? And thereby if he becomes that way, he is now "weak" and "lesser" and "submissive by nature"?

Not a lot of women who are going to go in for that...

But it is and can be a more subtle thing. Some males need a dramatic change in themselves in order to let go and feel and be submissive - in essence, they are stuffed and need some sort of "hook" to get them out of their headspace and into a submissive place where they want to be. And crossdressing can serve as that hook.

It is not a bad thing, but you can see how it muddies the water and makes the evaluation process that a Lady must go through more complicated - "Ok, is this guy doing this because he thinks women are inferior, or because he is stuffed and uses it to get him into a submissive headspace?" For many Ladies, that will equate to too much work to even get to a baseline with a prospective male and they will pass.

This is why I advocate really really thinking about -why you are here-. Why you have these feelings and what do they mean to you? How do you integrate this part of yourself into your life - do you embrace it, or hide it or stuff it?

People are looking for authentic expressions of self - and "hooks" are generally not authentic. They are not you saying "Yes, I -am- submissive and yes, I want this!" and accepting it and embracing it and making it a part of your life.

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 5/2/2012 6:49:55 AM >


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(in reply to natalie1983)
Profile   Post #: 40
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