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Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and thoughts - 8/31/2010 11:48:15 AM   
AAkasha


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Male subs who identify as straight (not bi curious):  Do you consider kissing another man (with tongue) to be a hard limit?
Female subs who identify as straight (not bi curious): Same question with f/f kissing?

I don't have the numbers, but I have a hunch (might be wrong) based on past topics that a great many male subs who identify as straight have a bigger problem with m/m kissing as submission that women do with kissing another woman as part of submission.  Am I wrong? I remember a thread a long time ago where men confessed that many felt it would be harder to kiss another man than to suck a man's cock (if I am remembering that right. Perhaps that was a wet dream of mine).

Is kissing another a man a "hard limit"?

I get really turned on by straight guys kissing.  A recent article about a True Blood episode really got me thinking about this. (SPOILERS if you are not up to date on the current season).

SPOILERS ----

The actor that plays Talbot talked about kissing Eric (http://www.movieline.com/2010/08/true-bloods-theo-alexander-on-his-gay-vampire-sex-scene.php?page=1) and his general discomfort but how he overcame it to accomplish the scene:

What was the energy like on set the day that you shot the sex scene?
Well, I think that whole week, Alexander [Skarsgård] and I were both a little bit anxious, but we were joking and being professional. Alexander is a great actor, though, and he helped me get beyond the physical part of the scene. I had been afraid of the scene from the very beginning — from the first moment that I held the script in my hand — but I’m glad I did it because every time you face your fears, you move forward. It was a good experience at the end of the day. What aspect of the scene scared you?
Well, the part about kissing another man. I don’t really do that, so… I didn’t want to think of him as a woman. Many people told me, “Oh, just close your eyes and think of him as a woman.” But no, because that is a totally different energy and I had to be very present with Alex and his male energy. I had to open myself to be able to actually be attracted to him, like, really attracted to him. At the end of the day, it was fun, though.

**
I read this, and this is a straight guy apparently who doesn't want to kiss men and enjoy kissing men, but he does it for his craft.  Actors do this kind of thing all the time; actors don't want to have "hard limits" if they are going to limit their roles.  Is a hard limit for a sub any different from an actor who wants to be the best at what he does, and can overcome his own obstacles to do it?
FWIW those couple of paragraphs got me hot and bothered in all kinds of ways; if anyone hasn't seen the scene and digs m/m intimacy, I highly recommend it.
Akasha



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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 12:31:53 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5159
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		I'm a straight female submissive.  Yes, I would consider tongue kissing or any other erotic kissing of another female as a hard limit. 

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 12:35:00 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline 		Not a sub, but I'll offer you the following straight male psychological perspective.

I can only kiss men if I objectify them first. Can't feel anything romantically towards them.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 12:35:06 PM   
SubPet715


Posts: 337
Joined: 8/24/2010
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline 		I try never to close the door on these sort of things because I don't know where my character evolution will take me. As for now, yes kissing other men is a hard limit. I have no attraction to men and the thought of doing so makes me uncomfortable to the point where it becomes a limit.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 12:47:29 PM   
DePubed


Posts: 71
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		I am a gay guy who has never wanted to kiss any guy just because he is a guy;
so I cannot imagine that a straight guy would be eager to kiss any guy when ordered to do so.

It is interesting that we would not put another person's toothbrush in our mouth, yet we are supposed to 'enjoy' tongue swishing inside that same person's mouth.

We are supposed to cover our mouths when coughing since germs are spread from spit/saliva, but then we are supposed to 'enjoy' tonguing the saliva in another person's mouth.

Still, I can see a value towards 'true submission' if someone is ordered to do something that he/she truly does not want to do yet obeys. For example, a straight guy licking the balls of another man solely out of obedience; or a gay man licking the pussy of a woman solely out of obedience; or a straight guy kissing another guy solely out of obedience.






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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 1:18:05 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Straight female here, and yes, I would limit it. It's sexual. You don't kiss your great aunt with your tongue aiming for her tonsils, this is only done sexually. And I don't have sex with other women. I'm not bi, I'm not curious, I'm not heteroflexible, pansexual etc. I'm straight.

Yeah, I know, I'm boring


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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 1:29:57 PM   
Wheldrake


Posts: 477
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Male subs who identify as straight (not bi curious):  Do you consider kissing another man (with tongue) to be a hard limit?


No, definitely not. I find the idea quite unappealing and distasteful - I wouldn't say scary - but I try to restrict hard limits to things that involve non-consenting parties or that would be damaging to my health, sanity, family relationships, or career. Kissing or being kissed by another man would be unpleasant, but it wouldn't do any actual harm, so I'm not going to fence it off. If it happened in the right way I would probably experience a submissive thrill, too. After all, being subjected to unpleasant experiences by mean people is fun!

Like "Talbot", I don't think I'd handle kissing another man by closing my eyes and trying to imagine him as a woman. I just wouldn't be able to suspend my disbelief effectively enough. Even if I were explicitly told to put some passion into it, though, I don't think I'd try to open myself to the other man's male energy, whatever that means - I'd just try to put on a good performance and let the passion come from my desire to please (or avoid being punished by) whoever was giving the orders.

Random thought: it would probably be a little easier for me to kiss a straight man who was also reluctant than a gay or bisexual man who actually wanted to kiss me. With another straight man, I could at least feel that we were on an equal footing. With a gay or bi man who was eager to kiss, I would feel that I was being victimised in some sense by him, as well as by the person giving the orders.


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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 3:37:08 PM   
peacefulplace


Posts: 157
Joined: 8/22/2010
Status: offline 		I would say I am a mostly straight sub. Sometimes I have a thing for boobs and can't stop staring at someone else's and...let's just say some thoughts come to mind. What can I say?

This is also, though, what led me to find out that I am mostly straight. When I thought I might actually be bisexual and experimented with the kissing, etc, I found out I really just wasn't that into it.

However, the idea doesn't really bother me. It's just that I am all the way monogamous and do not want to kiss anyone else other than Sir.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 3:52:24 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I'm a straight slave. I have zero interest in kissing another woman. Does nothing at all for me and I find it actually quite a gross thing to do but if Master required it of me then I would obey. Doesn't matter if I like it or not. It matters if he does.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 4:24:02 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		FR

AAkasha, if I didn't know better I'd think you started this thread just to see a load of s-types get all squirmy and uncomfortable.

But of course you'd never do that.

:P

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 4:27:50 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

Not a sub, but I'll offer you the following straight male psychological perspective.

I can only kiss men if I objectify them first. Can't feel anything romantically towards them.


To expand on what I'm saying. I don't mean objectify as a fetish or telling them they are an object.

I mean like saying: Hmm those are nice lips. He's got a very pretty face...


*not sub and refuses to do any squirming.

When your slightly sadistic, you make yourself want to do things that you don't like sometimes, just to push yourself.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/31/2010 4:36:04 PM >

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 4:31:12 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm a straight slave. I have zero interest in kissing another woman. Does nothing at all for me and I find it actually quite a gross thing to do but if Master required it of me then I would obey. Doesn't matter if I like it or not. It matters if he does.



It matters to me that the other woman wouldn't feel used in a bad way. I won't do that to someone else. If I had to kiss another woman, she would have to know first that I found her sexually repulsive and the whole experience would be upsetting and possibly even nauseating. I'm not going to lie, even by omission, and allow her to think something that isn't true.

I would be irreparably hurt if someone did this to me, and I won't do it to others.


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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 4:34:55 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peacefulplace

I would say I am a mostly straight sub. Sometimes I have a thing for boobs and can't stop staring at someone else's and...let's just say some thoughts come to mind. What can I say?

This is also, though, what led me to find out that I am mostly straight. When I thought I might actually be bisexual and experimented with the kissing, etc, I found out I really just wasn't that into it.

However, the idea doesn't really bother me. It's just that I am all the way monogamous and do not want to kiss anyone else other than Sir.



I could have written this - and i too am straight - by elimination. While its interesting to think of, it does nothing for me sexually, and there is a definite squick factor going on for me.
I'd do it if ordered - but that is the only time.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 5:32:52 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

FR

AAkasha, if I didn't know better I'd think you started this thread just to see a load of s-types get all squirmy and uncomfortable.

But of course you'd never do that.

:P


Hahah...well, that might have had a LITTLE to do with it subconsciously...... (grin).

Akasha


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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 5:39:09 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm a straight slave. I have zero interest in kissing another woman. Does nothing at all for me and I find it actually quite a gross thing to do but if Master required it of me then I would obey. Doesn't matter if I like it or not. It matters if he does.



I know a lot of subs have kissing the same sex as a 'hard limit.'  And I guess I wonder why - you sum it up here, you wouldn't enjoy it and don't desire it in any way but if your partner ordered you to do it, you'd do it to please them.  That's what submission is, right?

"hard limits" are good. They protect people.  But do some subs label things "hard limits" if they find that there's nothing fun, sexy or exciting about doing them?  Isn't surrender about doing things you don't want to do, because it makes your partner happy and/or aroused? And if they are even more aroused by your discomfort?

Same sex kissing happens all the time between hetereosexuals.  People losing bets in bars, college kids experimenting one time while pretending to be drunk when they are not, people playing spin the bottle.  Same-sex kissing between girlfriends (straight) at parties to get the attention of men is...is that even considered taboo anymore? It just seems pretty prevalent.  So it's just one kiss - to please the one you submit to.  What makes it a hard limit?  Just the disgust of the act? 

Sometimes I think about the unthinkable things I made "non sub men" do in the moment of seduction, after sexual persuasion, in the heat of the moment, things they would NEVER do for another soul. You know how hard it is to get a non kinky guy to accept a dildo in his mouth or up his ass?  That's surrender.

So what's so difficult about one shared kiss for those straight people, if your dominant was so excited by the idea? Actors do it all the time, as evidenced in this article.  How do they find it in themselves to not only do the act, but to enjoy it with all their soul, so they can make the viewer believe the passion is real? 

Just throwing it out there.

Akasha


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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 6:35:15 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Definitely hard limit with a capital H.  No making out with guys...period...ever.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 6:45:42 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Same sex kissing happens all the time between hetereosexuals.  People losing bets in bars, college kids experimenting one time while pretending to be drunk when they are not, people playing spin the bottle.  Same-sex kissing between girlfriends (straight) at parties to get the attention of men is...is that even considered taboo anymore? It just seems pretty prevalent.  So it's just one kiss - to please the one you submit to.  What makes it a hard limit?  Just the disgust of the act? 


I have such terrible luck with bets... I only bet assuming I'm going to lose now.

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 7:38:31 PM   
BalletBob


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think I could ever kiss another man. It is a Hard Limit for me, and I hope that the Mistress would understand. I could kiss a Female sub, if ordered, but generally, I am not much into kissing.

Not quivering lips, sub BalletBob

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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 8/31/2010 9:38:22 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Isn't surrender about doing things you don't want to do, because it makes your partner happy and/or aroused? And if they are even more aroused by your discomfort?




Nope.  For me, surrender is about doing what he wants me to do, whether I want to do it or not.  Personally, I wouldn't be involved with someone who got off on making me uncomfortable - I spent my entire last relationship in that kind of dynamic and it was exhausting.

That said, while I consider myself straight, I'd have no problem kissing another woman.  I've done it before, NOT in an M/s relationship, and of my own accord.  It was quite nice, actually - women have soft mouths.


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RE: Same-sex kissing (for straight subs) - limits and t... - 9/1/2010 11:22:35 AM   
phoenixmoonn13


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline 		HARD LIMIT for me even when we were online it was a hard limit

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