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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:20:30 AM

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The biological and neurological discussions, while informative and useful for purposes of understanding how some people deal with gender identity issues, are actually not the point here at all.

What is at the bottom of this is a sociological value placement on a specific gender to the point that the desire for a state other than what is "means" more. It's actually logically counter-supportive of transexuality as a physical state that deserves basic equal respect compared to any other state of gender. It's counter-supportive of individual equality, if the individual cannot accept that what they are involves what they started with, and where they've gone.

The personal focus, effort, motivation, and will to effect actions in one's life that more attunes them to where they feel they should be (and this covers anything from learning a new language to going post-op) is something impressive in and of itself that it doesn't need to be muffled because the goal-gender has a greater value placed on it.

On a personal level, psychologically speaking, certain states of perception and self-perception can indeed be argued to be "better" for the individual, even if that state of self-perception involves intentional partial denial.

On a public level, however...things get much murkier because a person may need/want (latently) that element of plausible deniability and may be functioning under that mindset, but as a single individual that may be looking for a partner, one should not escape the responsibility of needing to be honest about this issue with potential partners any more than being honest about one's marital status because that issue will matter (in all likelihood) to the other person...whether we philosophically think it should or not.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 2/27/2011 12:22:24 AM >

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:23:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny

Really woman-ness is not some abstract thing to be put on like a hat. There is a clearly marked "Trans" category - if there's nothing wrong with being trans (and there isn't) why is there supposed to be something wrong with selecting it when it is in fact the case.

Your arguments are still based on your perceived sense of social privilege through being a white cisgendered, cissexual male, and your right to assert that privilege over others who you perceive as marginalized and also your priority in being able to define femininity, society and gender.

You have a right to your opinions of course, and also the right to assert your social privilege - freedom of speech. But the fact remains the same, that your reality and your truth is based on your perception.

Perceived social privilege is just that, it is perceived individually. No matter how you try it cannot make your opinion fact, because the common truth is is that you are individual, just like everyone else.

My perception is different as is my opinion. I refuse to be marginalized by other people and to have my life defined and determined by other people. I have the same right of expression of my own human individuality as you have, but what you may not realize is is that my identity isn't just self-identity, but is my identity as respected, accepted by other people around me in society. I am integrated into society not as a Trans, but as a woman. The Trans isn't my whole identity, but is a qualification of my female identity, based on fact. I am not a naturally born female, never will be, I have no desire to be. I am happy being me.

Okay, so you don't agree and you wish to continue marginalizing me. Okay. I accept this, and I even applaud you for coming out with your opinions and support you. You see you don't define me, you don't influence my reality, and you do not influence my life or how other people perceive me. Therefore I do not feel threatened or insecure by you expressing your opinions. I know who I am, and the truth that is within me is much more important to me than the reality which surrounds me.

Therefore I can accept and respect your individuality, even if you are unable to respect and accept mine. It doesn't change the fact that we are both individuals, and perceive everything around us differently.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 2/27/2011 12:27:44 AM >

(in reply to YourToDeny)

RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:26:47 AM

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I think I would always be up front because I'm very femme and .. well I need people to know so they can make a free choice after considering me as myself.
Well we're abit tighter and need lubrication but the results are aesthetically pleasing :)

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:34:39 AM

Arpig

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quote:

Well we're abit tighter and need lubrication but the results are aesthetically pleasing :)

pretty much my point...I can only speak for myself, but it truly wouldn't matter a whit to me if my partner was born male or female

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:36:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliadryad
It is really actually not a medical condition. I think this is a cisgender error.

How is it not a medical condition? I'm still not quite clear on that. It's a physical problem, and it's correctable by hormones and surgery. That's not a negative judgment, or an emotional one, or a gendered one. How would you classify the condition of having the wrong primary sex characteristics if not as physical and medical?

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:41:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Post-op they have gone through hell to get where they are and are deservedly recognized as gender-reassigned by the legal and medical communities.

Appeal to emotion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

As long as you refuse to see them for who they are, continuing to see them as transgendered, the prejudice will continue.

There is no prejudice in honesty about not only where one is in their lives, but also where they've come from. Oscar Pistorius is still an amputee even if he has transcended his physiological boundaries to the point where he can outrun near any of us.

Saying he is an amputee is only prejudice if the state of being an amputee is somehow negative or ugly. That transexuals have felt for most of their lives that they have lived as the "wrong" gender and, once going post-op, feel they now have the "right" one should perhaps garner understanding and leniency for the psychological difficulties coming to grips with such a transition can impart, but it isn't a fundamentally logical excuse for willing degrees of deception of others who might have an investment in the answer to that question (self-deception is an entirely personal decision).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 2/27/2011 12:45:36 AM >

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:48:28 AM

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*

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 2/27/2011 12:57:06 AM >

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 1:31:47 AM

SpiritedRadiance

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In my local community ive Noticed A DISTINCT difference between the amount of male subs and Female Dominants where the Female dominants OUTNUMBER the male subs about 2 to 1. In fact I got home from an amazing event where every male sub except for two were active in a scene tonight and i would say close to 12 or more female dominants did not play at the event.... there were about 10 male subs total and about 20 or more female Dominants.....

YOUR opinion that there female Dominants are SO RARE, is completely shattered in the case of the event i attended tonight...and have been attending for the past 6 months...

IF you dont like something dont take your bullshit and try to shove it down other peoples throats... BLOCK DELETE MOVE ON... Or turn off your computer....

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 2:12:30 AM

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I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but of those I have read, they have either been snarky or negative. I don't get it. Why do members of this site feel the need to respond in this fashion? I have seen these types of responses in various threads repeatedly.
In this thread, the OP clearly stated his intent was not to offend and he mentioned TVs not TGs, yet so many of the respondents seem to feel he was bashing those who are trans-gendered.

With reference to a comment from one other poster, the research regarding sexual orientation and gender identification has existed well before this century, so I respectfully disagree that research on gender identification is recent.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/175/4017/82.abstract
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.me.30.020179.002221
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474277/

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 3:40:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny
If I wasn't a female supremest I'd be insulted by any woman trying to tell me that desiring her is the same as desiring a man.

Are you a female supremacist, YTD? Because if you are, I *really* don't see this discussion going anywhere useful.

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 3:50:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny

TV's, post-ops, no offense! But do you have any idea how hard it is to find a female dominant even when all of the matches are women?

Logic behind the complaint:

1. For every dominant woman there are about 25 submissive men

2a. Women unlike men have much less a need to advertise their single-ness

2b. What this means is that if we have non-women posting themselves as women, we get a disproportionate amount of men in the search - I have hidden at least a hundred men from the search (every time I see a wrongly classified page I hide it) and they are still overwhelming the submissive male's search for a dominant female. This hampers the effectiveness of the website.

2c. The reason TV's are drowning out the dominant females is that basic difference between a woman and a man - I am not telling you how to define yourself (and never will) and I say as respectfully as possible, TV's advertising as females are starting to outnumber the women on this site. The true dominant woman is a rare breed and she is rarely available. It is not fair to the submissive males to drown her out. The difference between a pseudo-female and a female is that pseudos still have that male desperation to be selected (something women don't have to worry about) so if you put your profile in that category you are putting a practical barrier between two groups of people who work hard to find each other to live the life they feel they need.

3. Moral grounds: it seems wrong for a TV to post as a dominant female and assume a position of power under false pretenses to try to manipulate submissive males who are looking for what they truly want.

4. There is a category for TV's and if submissive males are looking for them, they should know where to find them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again I make this protest with the utmost respect for those involved in this practice, and I mean no offense, but in this lifestyle the right Woman and the right man have a hard enough time finding each other without all the biological females being drowned out unfairly and blocked by a group that should technically be in another category.

YTD

I dont know where to start with this. If TV`s are honest about the fact I cant see a problem with them advertising here.

As for post OP`s......... WTF do you think they had the op for dude ? Think about it......Please.

(in reply to YourToDeny)

RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 3:56:17 AM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Post-op they have gone through hell to get where they are and are deservedly recognized as gender-reassigned by the legal and medical communities.

Appeal to emotion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

As long as you refuse to see them for who they are, continuing to see them as transgendered, the prejudice will continue.

There is no prejudice in honesty about not only where one is in their lives, but also where they've come from. Oscar Pistorius is still an amputee even if he has transcended his physiological boundaries to the point where he can outrun near any of us.

Saying he is an amputee is only prejudice if the state of being an amputee is somehow negative or ugly. That transexuals have felt for most of their lives that they have lived as the "wrong" gender and, once going post-op, feel they now have the "right" one should perhaps garner understanding and leniency for the psychological difficulties coming to grips with such a transition can impart, but it isn't a fundamentally logical excuse for willing degrees of deception of others who might have an investment in the answer to that question (self-deception is an entirely personal decision).

</topic>

I agree with the above.

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 4:04:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

It must have been traumatic for the OP to have met a Domme, established trust with her, and then had his hopes dashed when he found out she had undergone sexual reassignment surgery and didn't tell him about it.

Unless it went unmentioned, I don't think that was the issue. The original was the complaint that TG Dominants were listing themselves as 'female'. I didn't see where the OP met anybody. Maybe I should check the profile for further information.

I never met anybody. I do get some letters from TG's trying to mislead - anybody who thinks there aren't TG's out there who are willing to exploit submissives to coerce interaction is blind and senseless. Can they surgically attach 'saintliness', or are TG's as human as everybody else? I don't care about the letters I get but I do want to point out that there is a huge surge of TG's in the female dominant category. The OP was meant to point out not just those, but the TV's as well who are also posting themselves as female. The point is not to say I care how I identify themselves, but that its no more correct for them to choose how the community as a whole gets to identify women.

The essential point condensed (again):

As far as that goes, what makes you think you get to define femininity more than any of the other people? Don't discount the possibility that your definition is just as oppressive to those of the Double-X persuasion as the macho XY definition has been for centuries. Some highly political Dommes may be glad to put politics first but that doesn't mean they speak for all women.

I am not here to debate your identity but to bring to the attention of the community the surge in misrepresentative - or at the least 'insufficiently specific' - profiles. They are drowning out the minority, that rarest of rarities, the dominant woman with the double-x chromes. In a way it is misogynistic to allow it to continue without in the very least being discouraged.

The axe you're grinding caused me to infer (incorrectly) that you had experienced a "Crying Game" moment which gutted you.

There is no influx of TGs coercing interaction. Even if there was truth to your claim, if you're spotting them from photos there's no harm.

This whole thread looks more and more like an excuse to attack and demean TS/TG people. Seems like the OP has misidentified himself in his profile and is actually an emotional sadist.

< Message edited by isoLadyOwner -- 2/27/2011 4:05:08 AM >

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 4:20:19 AM

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 4:32:26 AM

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quote:

And I will say that female subs have the same problem with inappropriate male contacts that the Dominas do.

Yes.

Additionally, like I usually add to all the numerous whiny "I can't find a Domme" threads - I demand a separate category for married cheaters!

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 4:46:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but of those I have read, they have either been snarky or negative. I don't get it. Why do members of this site feel the need to respond in this fashion? I have seen these types of responses in various threads repeatedly.
In this thread, the OP clearly stated his intent was not to offend and he mentioned TVs not TGs, yet so many of the respondents seem to feel he was bashing those who are trans-gendered.

With reference to a comment from one other poster, the research regarding sexual orientation and gender identification has existed well before this century, so I respectfully disagree that research on gender identification is recent.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/175/4017/82.abstract
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.me.30.020179.002221
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474277/

I respectfully suggest you re-read some of the OP's posts.
He first lumped TVs and TGs together as if there was nothing to distingquish them.

He makes it clearer in some of his later posts that his focus is on feeling there are too many misrepresentations by
non-double-x women; the transgendered.
He even makes mention of it in his OP:

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny

TV's, post-ops, no offense! But do you have any idea how hard it is to find a female dominant even when all of the matches are women?

YTD

edit: clarity

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 2/27/2011 4:49:18 AM >

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 5:08:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

It must have been traumatic for the OP to have met a Domme, established trust with her, and then had his hopes dashed when he found out she had undergone sexual reassignment surgery and didn't tell him about it.

Unless it went unmentioned, I don't think that was the issue. The original was the complaint that TG Dominants were listing themselves as 'female'. I didn't see where the OP met anybody. Maybe I should check the profile for further information.

I never met anybody. I do get some letters from TG's trying to mislead - anybody who thinks there aren't TG's out there who are willing to exploit submissives to coerce interaction is blind and senseless. Can they surgically attach 'saintliness', or are TG's as human as everybody else? I don't care about the letters I get but I do want to point out that there is a huge surge of TG's in the female dominant category. The OP was meant to point out not just those, but the TV's as well who are also posting themselves as female. The point is not to say I care how I identify themselves, but that its no more correct for them to choose how the community as a whole gets to identify women.

The essential point condensed (again):

As far as that goes, what makes you think you get to define femininity more than any of the other people? Don't discount the possibility that your definition is just as oppressive to those of the Double-X persuasion as the macho XY definition has been for centuries. Some highly political Dommes may be glad to put politics first but that doesn't mean they speak for all women.

I am not here to debate your identity but to bring to the attention of the community the surge in misrepresentative - or at the least 'insufficiently specific' - profiles. They are drowning out the minority, that rarest of rarities, the dominant woman with the double-x chromes. In a way it is misogynistic to allow it to continue without in the very least being discouraged.

A thought occurred to me: if you are perhaps feeling duped by "Trans-women" who write you letters, who in fact might actually be
"double-x women" after all. You may be making erroneous assumptions given your statement:" They are drowning out the minority, that rarest of rarities, the dominant woman with the double-x chromes."

Since online is seeming so difficult for you and you live in a major metropolitan area, why not focus on that, and go out and meet people in your local groups?.
http://www.darkheart.com/usalist.html#Massachusetts
There are very few places on that list, if any that are much more than 2 1/2 hours from you...and many are very near by.

Edit:fix link

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 2/27/2011 5:10:02 AM >

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 5:20:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

FWIW calling someone what they really are doesn't mean that prejudice will continue. I don't see anyone saying that we should stop calling people gay because they will be discriminated against, or stop calling people black because of racism.

Whenever I fill out legal forms that ask me for my race, I always put "Human."
Ethnicity is just BREED, like the difference between a shiba inu and a beagle!

< Message edited by rick1283 -- 2/27/2011 5:22:11 AM >

(in reply to YourToDeny)

RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 5:25:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Post-op they have gone through hell to get where they are and are deservedly recognized as gender-reassigned by the legal and medical communities.

Appeal to emotion.

Not necessarily. It implies a view of entitlements dependent on deserts needs rather than rights, in this case, roughly the OP's 'birth-rights'. The OP seems to believe that a person has a greater entitlement to be called female because she was 'born to it'. Sirsholly is implying that the struggle to achieve female-ness itself confers a level of entitlement.

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 5:45:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Well we're abit tighter and need lubrication but the results are aesthetically pleasing :)
pretty much my point...I can only speak for myself, but it truly wouldn't matter a whit to me if my partner was born male or female

See? It isn't just the hormonal teenager that thinks this! It's quite a few of the people here. Maybe the trans just don't want to put it upfront on their profiles to avoid flame from closed-mined clots who think they shouldn't exist? It's sad, but they ARE out there. Just like the KKK going after blacks, just because of their breed.

(in reply to Arpig)

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