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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 9:29:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The only thing my heritage (Welsh) has been accused of is too many damn "L's" in our words, and I dont feel the least bit guilty about that.

Of course, perhaps your heritage in this country doesn't go back to the populations that were here when Whitey came along and drove those people off their lands, and did things (like giving the Cherokee small pox infected blankets) that are fairly much genocide.... including in the 20th century taking Indian kids from their parents and putting them into foster homes to Americanize them....perhaps your family has only been here one generation.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same, and while I do not feel guilt about it, I sure as hell don't skim over it, either

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/12/2011 9:36:02 AM >

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 9:39:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The only thing my heritage (Welsh) has been accused of is too many damn "L's" in our words, and I dont feel the least bit guilty about that.

Of course, perhaps your heritage in this country doesn't go back to the populations that were here when Whitey came along and drove those people off their lands, and did things (live giving the Cherokee small pox infected blankets) that are fairly much genocide.... including in the 20th century taking Indian kids from their parents and putting them into foster homes to Americanize them....perhaps your family has only been here one generation.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same, and while I do not feel guilt about it, I sure as hell don't skim over it, either

I dont know wtf youre talking about, but my family has been here since the 17th century with the first wave of emigration from Wales to Pa, and then to the South.

And the "Indian genocide" is another myth propogated by guilt ridden liberals. Text books have been sanitized to downplay the savagery of the Indians against settlers. It wasnt all "Dances with Wolves", even though thats about as far as your appetite for the truth apparently goes. Read Gregory Michno sometime.

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 9:46:37 AM

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have to agree with willbeurdaddy here about the native americans. My family has been here since 1749 and left written documents of why they built the fort in PA that holds my family name, of how they had to protect their families from the red man who attacked and scalped their pacifist brethren men and kidnapped women and children.

Now I'm not saying that what the white man did to the red man was any better but to think that the red man was somehow less than guilty of any rebellion is a myth.

If I felt guilt for what my ethnicity did I'd feel it from all sides....the killing of native americans by my german family, the native american family for killing the germans, the slavic side for killing magyars, the magyars for killing slavics, etc...yeah my shoulders just ain't that big. lol

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 9:50:27 AM

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That said, the whole scalping thing started back in the colonial days due to the French paying a bounty for British scalps, did it not?

As has been pointed out though, being held culpable for something other members of the same group do by others is more common than doing it themselves. Just look at some of the shit Irish immigrants got during the last big IRA bombing campaign in the '80s...

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 9:52:37 AM

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quote:

And the "Indian genocide" is another myth propogated by guilt ridden liberals. Text books have been sanitized to downplay the savagery of the Indians against settlers. It wasnt all "Dances with Wolves", even though thats about as far as your appetite for the truth apparently goes. Read Gregory Michno sometime.

You are determined to believe lies, there is no response to this other than I am VERY WELL versed on this topic, and I can tell you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground in regards to it

This is equal to holocaust denier

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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 9:56:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

have to agree with willbeurdaddy here about the native americans. My family has been here since 1749 and left written documents of why they built the fort in PA that holds my family name, of how they had to protect their families from the red man who attacked and scalped their pacifist brethren men and kidnapped women and children.

Now I'm not saying that what the white man did to the red man was any better but to think that the red man was somehow less than guilty of any rebellion is a myth.

If I felt guilt for what my ethnicity did I'd feel it from all sides....the killing of native americans by my german family, the native american family for killing the germans, the slavic side for killing magyars, the magyars for killing slavics, etc...yeah my shoulders just ain't that big. lol

Number one, there were 100s of individual nations of original inhabitants in this country. Their occupation of this continent went back 1000s of years. If someone came into your land, and took your resources, you might take their scalp...

Not to mention, how could they tell who were "pacifists" and who were not? The Indians were taught how to scalp by the French, in fact Indians were scalped before they ever did any scalping

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 10:03:50 AM

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exactly once again, julia -- the natives were fighting back against people who they thought were taking everything away from them (and who eventually did) =p
we permit murder in cases of self-defense.

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 10:16:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Of course, perhaps your heritage in this country doesn't go back to the populations that were here when Whitey came along and drove those people off their lands, and did things (live giving the Cherokee small pox infected blankets) that are fairly much genocide.... including in the 20th century taking Indian kids from their parents and putting them into foster homes to Americanize them....perhaps your family has only been here one generation.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same, and while I do not feel guilt about it, I sure as hell don't skim over it, either

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
I dont know wtf youre talking about, but my family has been here since the 17th century with the first wave of emigration from Wales to Pa, and then to the South.

And the "Indian genocide" is another myth propogated by guilt ridden liberals. Text books have been sanitized to downplay the savagery of the Indians against settlers. It wasnt all "Dances with Wolves", even though thats about as far as your appetite for the truth apparently goes. Read Gregory Michno sometime.

For real? I've known about the small pox blankets and forced fostering of Indian children since before I was a teenager.

Do you believe Manifest Destiny to be a moral viewpoint?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 10:17:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

exactly once again, julia -- the natives were fighting back against people who they thought were taking everything away from them (and who eventually did) =p
we permit murder in cases of self-defense.

Their children were murdered, their women stolen and raped, I wonder how many people would stop to ask in similar circumstances "Were you the white guy that raped my wife?"

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 10:19:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Of course, perhaps your heritage in this country doesn't go back to the populations that were here when Whitey came along and drove those people off their lands, and did things (live giving the Cherokee small pox infected blankets) that are fairly much genocide.... including in the 20th century taking Indian kids from their parents and putting them into foster homes to Americanize them....perhaps your family has only been here one generation.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same, and while I do not feel guilt about it, I sure as hell don't skim over it, either

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
I dont know wtf youre talking about, but my family has been here since the 17th century with the first wave of emigration from Wales to Pa, and then to the South.

And the "Indian genocide" is another myth propogated by guilt ridden liberals. Text books have been sanitized to downplay the savagery of the Indians against settlers. It wasnt all "Dances with Wolves", even though thats about as far as your appetite for the truth apparently goes. Read Gregory Michno sometime.

For real? I've known about the small pox blankets and forced fostering of Indian children since before I was a teenager.

Do you believe Manifest Destiny to be a moral viewpoint?

Morality is determined by the society and times you live in, it is not an absolute. In the context of early America it was obviously "moral".

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 10:21:31 AM

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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

exactly once again, julia -- the natives were fighting back against people who they thought were taking everything away from them (and who eventually did) =p
we permit murder in cases of self-defense.

Their children were murdered, their women stolen and raped, I wonder how many people would stop to ask in similar circumstances "Were you the white guy that raped my wife?"

And in your sheltered little world you apparently never learned that white children were murdered,white children were kidnapped and raised on reservations as slaves, white women were raped. If ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest person in the world.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 10:25:40 AM

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quote:

Morality is determined by the society and times you live in, it is not an absolute. In the context of early America it was obviously "moral".

Like I said, I do not run around feeling this enormous burden of guilt, but I do have an accurate view of history.... sugar coating crap doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Even though I am like 50% Scottish, Irish, and some German thrown in, I also have Ogallala and Cherokee according to my Mormon aunt. The Trail of Tears ended where my mom's family came from, and one of the survivors had children with one of my male ancestors.

Now, I do not claim to be Native American because I am not culturally Native American, but I do have that blood in me, and I respect that part of my ancestry. I also know a bit about it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 11:42:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Do you feel chagrin at what those in your ethnic group do?

No. I'm only concerned about what I do.

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 11:44:28 AM

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quote:

And in your sheltered little world you apparently never learned that white children were murdered,white children were kidnapped and raised on reservations as slaves, white women were raped. If ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest person in the world.

And I wonder, who was on whose land?

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 11:46:11 AM

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I have english blood..with a fair ol sprinkling of Scots, Irish and Welsh in me, (my great grandaddy had a bike) ALl those pieces hate each other in some way so Im used to sposingly feel guilty for what the english have done to the other three, and so on.
Im more than aware of great Britains history from the roman era to present day and what we"as a nation" are responsible for.
But personally responsible? no
understanding yep, pissed off that we caused so much damage yes, but I am only responsible for myself andmy actions.
You cant help what your heritage is.
Mind you for many years the french were an issue. Not so much now:)

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 12:01:01 PM

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quote:

Mind you for many years the french were an issue. Not so much now:)

Its always those damn Frogs

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 12:06:44 PM

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thats down to my old man, he hated the french.... said the only reason to build the channel tunnel was to use it as the barrel of a BMF gun tube

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 6/12/2011 12:07:18 PM >

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\(•_•)
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/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 12:15:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

thats down to my old man, he hated the french.... said the only reason to build the channel tunnel was to use it as the barrel of a BMF gun tube

You gotta love the French and the British, I have never seen two friendly nations that hated each other so much

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 1:19:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
The Indians were taught how to scalp by the French, in fact Indians were scalped before they ever did any scalping

Does me voice not carry or summat?
(Post 24)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Do you feel responsible? - 6/12/2011 1:27:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
The Indians were taught how to scalp by the French, in fact Indians were scalped before they ever did any scalping

Does me voice not carry or summat?
(Post 24)

I had not read your post yet

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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