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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 1:38:36 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I used to have some rocks you'd love, Lockit.  I collected them during a trip through Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and the Dakotas.  A couple of them have fossils in them.  If I find them, I'll have to remember to send you one. 


Okay... that did me! You live close enough to stalk! lol I had to leave my greatest rock in California... sea fossils, sob. I left the rest in Colorado, along with the rock bathroom and yard, river rock from Colorado. I kept the small ones I could carry and each one meant a memory of someone. So special! I just bought some petosky rocks to remind me of those I had to leave in Michigan and some Wyld wench got me buying rocks on ebay, evil child that she is!

A tribute in a rock... I might have to consider! lol I can't tell you how many men became rock hounds because of me! I'm a rock slut. *Rushes off to change the profile!*


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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 1:45:03 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

When someone goes to the effort to show that they are probably incompatible right from the onset, you should be thankful rather than vexed.


This.

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 2:01:18 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Okay... that did me! You live close enough to stalk! lol I had to leave my greatest rock in California... sea fossils, sob. I left the rest in Colorado, along with the rock bathroom and yard, river rock from Colorado. I kept the small ones I could carry and each one meant a memory of someone. So special! I just bought some petosky rocks to remind me of those I had to leave in Michigan and some Wyld wench got me buying rocks on ebay, evil child that she is!

A tribute in a rock... I might have to consider! lol I can't tell you how many men became rock hounds because of me! I'm a rock slut. *Rushes off to change the profile!*



LMAO!  That's it, I'm going to have to look for them now.  I just wish I could remember if I still have them.  They might have gotten lost in one of my many moves.  Even if I have them, they could very well be at my parents' house. 
 
 
 
PS: eBay rocks!
 
 
*ducks and hides*



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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 2:24:31 PM   
SorceressJ


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<--also a rock slut. Just sayin'

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 2:56:03 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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So of course you are all fans of the Lucy & Desi film, "The Long, Long, Trailer", right? :)

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 2:59:15 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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Personally, I'm a book slut.  Though, I'd consider becoming a rock slut if the rocks look like this:



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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 3:43:42 PM   
mummyman321


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I am sure I can find you some green rocks. Nothing a little paint can take care of

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 3:50:15 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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My mother did open university geology courses for many years whilst I was growing up.

Consequently, I've been totally traumatised by rocks. It was a great relief for everyone involved when she switched to maths courses and stopped lecturing everyone about rock formations whenever we were out walking.

And OP, a possible reason why a lifestyle dominant might phrase dinner arrangements as a tribute: to see if you freak out at her and only stop to ask questions afterwards, or if you actually trust her judgement/leadership/general having-her-head-screwed-on-ness and go with what she's saying. Not something I'd do personally, but I could see people with a different style doing that.

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 4:58:36 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

why go out of your way to label it a tribute?
Probably because she was worried about appearing dominant more than she was about being dominant. The word "tribute" implies the one receiving it is a superior. So using it makes her look superior in her eyes.

However it also has a whiff of blackmail about it. A "Pay me tribute or I will invade your country" sort of thing. That's why I think its an ill chosen word. To me the word itself implies a mercenary nature that would turn me away from the one demanding it.

That's just the way I see it.


< Message edited by HeatherMcLeather -- 6/21/2011 4:59:24 PM >

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 6:25:27 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I vaguely recall someone here (I don't recall the name) who was a lifestyle domme saying she required a tribute.  However, it wasn't a monetary tribute.  She had a prospective sub go find her a rock of a very specific size and shape while he was out hiking or camping or something.  It was sort of a test to see how serious he was and how well he followed instructions.  It also served to make sure she was on his mind the whole time.  I thought it was clever.


Heh. I'd go for that: it's funny and cute.

I'm afraid I'd find a demand for a monetary tribute crass and lacking in style from a lifestyler, no matter how she were to rationalise it.

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 6:35:20 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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NO ONE got my movie reference? Sad face.

I got glow in the dark rope once! I love stuff that glows in the dark. It hangs in my closet, all green in the night.

Easily pleased Hib

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 6:42:34 PM   
mummyman321


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From: Dusseldorf
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LadyH,
I do remember the movie, Nicky and Tacy as I recall. I just remember Tacy(Lucy) trying to cook dinner in the moving trailer. Its was a very funny movie

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 6:59:34 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

I am sure I can find you some green rocks. Nothing a little paint can take care of


But will they be as shiny

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"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 7:02:19 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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It was a ROCK reference!! Lucy decides to collect a rock from every stop, and you know how it is, before long the whole trailer is FULL of rocks and can't get up steep hills!

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/21/2011 10:37:41 PM   
errantgeek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

It's always good to take a step back and focus before coming here and posting a rant. That way you can say what you mean and mean what you say.

Poor phrasing, but also kind of narrow. Not everyone is wanting to "eplore and participate in a d/s relationship"....it may be your preference, I know it's mine, but it's not the same for everyone.

I think it's because of the online bdsm thingy that the word "tribute" has developed such a negative connotation. I'm also sorry to say that what you might consider "common courtesy" really isn't as common as it could or should be.

Again...SOP isn't the same for everyone. I've met men who refused to pay for a cup of coffee...after all, as the d-type, I should be treating them...or so they say. Everyone has their own way of seeing things...back to that idea of no rule or guide book...and the only answer is communication. You were right to question the woman your mentioned.

Maybe you could start a thread with positive ideas for male subs on topics like this. One that would give them ideas and advice on how to become "quality". That might be more constructive than trying to understand something that really doesn't matter...in the grand scheme of things. Just a thought.


Indeed...though, on the other hand I was actually interested to hear other Dominants' opinions on the matter. I'm a real whore for talking about controversial topics and hearing different perspectives. That said, indeed not everyone is looking to practice D/s as an end in itself, and as I said there's nothing wrong with that and exactly why I believe professionals provide a service to the community. I (and I'm sure everyone else) just wish it were easier to tell all the different camps apart...ha. :)

And, indeed I could...but I'm sure there are already threads over there on this exact topic and I'd get yelled at for necroing or beating a dead horse. :) Honestly, the people who really need to hear this kind of information likely aren't terribly active anyhow or wouldn't read it anyway...

quote:

Really? check around the boards, and enjoy the savage arguments about why women should have to pay their own way!! Price of feminism and all, yanno!


Oh, I've been party to those and taken fire from every conceivable angle just about anywhere. :) I once almost ended up in a physical altercation with a female ex-friend for insisting on picking up a rather sizable bar tab we'd both run when she was having financial problems. :) I will admit though, that in my opinion it depends largely on circumstances...if a Dominant is local or she's traveling to meet me, then I'm happy to pay; if I'm traveling to meet her, I'm not going to be a happy camper if I'm just expected to pick up the entire check having just paid $30-40 out of pocket for gas. D/s context or not, that's just inconsiderate.

quote:

errantgeek, I wanted you to know I just perved your photos and you have a great butt.


Oh, thank you! :)

quote:

Well, I think the problem you have here is that because you are a good person who thinks sharing expenses is normal, I can tell you that most of the so called subs do not think so. [...] To be honest, those guys can go and dominate themselves, why would I waste my time on them when I can meet somebody IRL who hasn't got all those pretensions and is a bit more grounded in reality.


Oh, I understand that sentiment all too well...ha! Truth be told, I've had to deal with that crap too...to the point that before I changed my screen name (a very recent decision), I ended up stripping any reference that I might be interested in males and I might have switch tendencies.

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/22/2011 7:52:05 AM   
MsKittyValentine


Posts: 36
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I am a PD and a lifestyle bdsm-er.

Professionally, I do not beat about the bush and call it a tribute or anything other than my fee. That is what it is and I keep it up front and simple. Can't be accused of being anything other than honest that way.

In my personal life, prior to meeting the wonderful paul, I did play more casually and never once, not once ever asked for any money, gifts, or reimbursements. If I wanted to play and I drove a way to see the sub or incurred expenses, I bore that cost myself. I can't even imagine asking others to pay for things which I should be prepared to pay for.

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/22/2011 8:20:15 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek
Truth be told, I've had to deal with that crap too...to the point that before I changed my screen name (a very recent decision), I ended up stripping any reference that I might be interested in males and I might have switch tendencies.


Not necessarily a good idea if you're looking for someone who might really be compatible with you in the long term.  I'm indifferent to the switch part, but bi guys or bi curious guys (especially self-identified geeks) always catch my attention.  Remove that from your profile and it would no longer meet enough of my criteria to warrant a contact.  If you don't want to find a femdom who is fine with your switchy nature and thrilled to help you explore your bi-curious fantasies, then don't put them out there.  If you do want to find a femdom who is homophobic and will utterly freak out and wreck the relationship the first time she catches a hint of your tendencies, then go ahead and keep stuff hidden about yourself.

IMO, honesty and full disclosure is the best policy.  It's an early weed-out of people who are fundamentally incompatible, and can help you find people who will genuinely value you for who you are.  Just saying.

Common sense is, sadly, not common.  It's not a safe assumption that any "quality submissive" would have specific expectations as to their end of the financial responsibilities in a relationship.  And having been burned by utterly selfish, inconsiderate do-me boys far too many times, a lot of ladies have had quite enough of it and will state up front that they expect a certain standard of consideration for THEIR wants and needs.  They expect that the gentleman will see to their comfort and do things for them rather than just making endless crude demands that are all about him.  One of the quickest shortcuts to balance the time and energy equation is money, so it's a route that some will inevitably take. 

At its root, the issue isn't always one of selfishness so much as a very different male and female perspective on kink.  To most (but not all) men, kinky sexual activities are their own reward regardless of who you're doing them with.  They expect that women feel the same way, so when they offer the unsolicited "gift" of their naked cock pictures in email or their "submissive service" of providing kinky sex to a stranger, they do not understand that from her perspective, they are being entirely selfish and making it all about them, not about her at all.  That can get incredibly frustrating.

From her perspective, it's all about establishing a relationship of intimacy and trust.  Crucial to establishing that relationship is a two way exchange.  She wants to know that he is considerate of her feelings, respects her time and energy, and is willing to do things to make her feel good and make her life better.  She wants to know that he sees her as a person, not as a pair of tits and a whip to service his fetish.  From his point of view, kinky sex acts meet those criteria already.  From hers, not so much.   She wants him to take the time to consider her feelings - NOT her sexual feelings, but her human ones - and meet her interpersonal, social needs before jumping to the sexual ones.  This can be a massive fundamental disconnect in initial communication.

In essence, both people are saying "Give to me; meet my needs, make me feel valued and wanted, show me you care about making me feel good."  But she is the only one who is likely to make that message explicit.  As far as he is concerned, offering an hour of oral sex to a stranger while being tied up and beaten *is* how he does his share of the giving, so he doesn't actually realize that the content of his message is still going to be read as "Gimme".  From her perspective, such an "offer" is all about him and his desires, disregarding her as a person.  He is ready to be intimate long before she's prepared to trust that he isn't a selfish asshole who doesn't care about her and who is only using her for shallow kink gratification.  Without that trust, intimacy can't happen, so his "offer" isn't a gift at all.

It does feel good to be treated nicely, bought things, given things, and otherwise shown that my time and energy and company is highly appreciated and valued.  It is flattering.  It shows that I am valued, and that the submissive in question is willing to see to my comfort and cares about making me feel good, without focusing solely on his own sexual gratification.  I can understand why some women, tired of the eternal disconnect, finally say right up front that this is what they require before they will waste their time on what they perceive to be pushy, selfish, utterly inconsiderate do-me guys.  Some of those guys may honestly believe they are doing their share of "giving" by offering to provide kinky acts, but their offer of premature intimacy is always going to be seen as a selfish one. 

I don't condemn women who have finally snapped and set their boundaries to exclude men who are not willing to do any giving that doesn't involve pink bits.  I understand the frustration.  Personally I won't go that route.  Outside of the clear and honest transactions I do as a professional, it's not my thing.  I appreciate being treated nicely in my personal life, but the symbol supersedes the form for me.  Being treated to a cup of coffee and a single flower that is presented with a flourish (and I don't care if you picked it yourself) is sufficient to demonstrate that you care about making me feel good and that you value my company.  I'm not a rock slut, but if your gift was a nifty looking rock you picked up while hiking and thought I would like, that would also show that you were thinking of me.  If you really want to impress me, give me a d20. Cost of a d20, about a buck.  Showing that you care about my non kink interests, priceless. 

You'd be surprised at the percentage of men who approach women on these sites who seem to honestly not care *at all* who we are as people, or what we do when we're not tying people up and beating them.  They just don't care, and that is incredibly off-putting.  I have no desire to be intimate with someone who does not care who I am as a human being or what I like outside the bedroom.  Requiring tribute would be one shortcut to effectively enforce someone "caring" about my non kink enjoyment and interests....but IMO shortcuts don't work so well in the long run.  So if a guy doesn't approach me of his own accord as a human being and a friend without having to be told to, he's not personal relationship material, period.

I also like being the one to do the courting and the buying.  There is a lot of enjoyment in that for me as well.  I used to be pretty much stuck on that dynamic, but after being taken advantage of and burned a few too many times by useless pretty boys, I've developed an appreciation of men who prefer to pay their own way and to do things for me as well.  Not always expensive things, just considerate things.  Because it's the consideration that matters most in the end, when we're talking about any kind of human relationship. I don't believe there are any good shortcuts.


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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/22/2011 9:27:53 AM   
errantgeek


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Not necessarily a good idea if you're looking for someone who might really be compatible with you in the long term.  I'm indifferent to the switch part, but bi guys or bi curious guys (especially self-identified geeks) always catch my attention.  Remove that from your profile and it would no longer meet enough of my criteria to warrant a contact.  If you don't want to find a femdom who is fine with your switchy nature and thrilled to help you explore your bi-curious fantasies, then don't put them out there.  If you do want to find a femdom who is homophobic and will utterly freak out and wreck the relationship the first time she catches a hint of your tendencies, then go ahead and keep stuff hidden about yourself.


All points very well taken, and I agree completely, though I did want to answer this one...ironically, listing those things in my profile has caused me a great deal more trouble than it has been a benefit in my time practicing D/s. My bi tendencies boil down to less than a handful of very specific circumstances and is far from a must-have on my list of kinks, and I'm more than happy to mention them if I sense a Dominant is receptive. Otherwise, I tend to get inundated by messages from guys I wouldn't blow even in those aforementioned circumstances (for some reason, bears and older men just can't resist me) and have actually had a Dominant or two who focus so heavily on the bisexuality aspect it makes me wonder if they're interested in me or the opportunity to watch a guy suck a dick. You do have a point with homophobia though, but as that's nothing more than simple prejudice in my opinion I wouldn't want to associate with them regardless of my orientation!

All the same, what i wouldn't give for a "heteroflexible" option under orientation in CM! :)

Oh, and nice with the d20's. :) I typically buy in sets, though!

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RE: "Tribute required" - 6/22/2011 11:48:42 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek
Otherwise, I tend to get inundated by messages from guys I wouldn't blow even in those aforementioned circumstances (for some reason, bears and older men just can't resist me) and have actually had a Dominant or two who focus so heavily on the bisexuality aspect it makes me wonder if they're interested in me or the opportunity to watch a guy suck a dick.


So you know pretty much how I feel when I receive a message that focuses on what I look like.  I wonder if they're interested in me as a person, or just in a set of body parts.  Generally I assume it's the latter, and that is the end of our social conversation.  It's not a smart move to make if you actually do have a personality and are capable of leading with it.

Objectifying your consenting partner can be fun, but ignoring the human aspects of a D/s relationship isn't likely to work well for anyone.  Everyone is allowed to have needs and wants, must-haves and deal breakers.  But if you put that stuff ahead of getting to know a person as a person, you may be finished before you've even begun.  Bisexuality or at least heteroflexibility is fairly close to a must-have for me in a personal relationship.  But I have no interest in engaging in any manner of sexual intimacy with someone who does not make me smile and enjoy spending time with him because of who he is as a person.  That's why guys who approach body parts first are not worth talking to.  The same would probably be true for a woman who approached you with only her agenda in mind, not caring how you felt about it or who you were. 


quote:

All the same, what i wouldn't give for a "heteroflexible" option under orientation in CM! :)


This is one of the many reasons I do more of my social networking on other kink sites.  This one's more of a meat market and less inclusive of the spectrum of diversity that is better represented in the real life BDSM/leather community.  I generally hang with queer folk, though technically I'm heterosexual.  At least when I'm not doing male drag in my gay leather daddy persona, in which case you could make a reasonable argument otherwise.  Still, since I'm bio female and prefer male identified or male bodied partners, I get tossed in the het box most of the time.  It doesn't quite fit me.  That's why not being bi is pretty close to a deal breaker for me. I need a partner who can relate to me regardless of the gender hat I feel like wearing at the time. 


quote:

Oh, and nice with the d20's. :) I typically buy in sets, though!


The Chaosium table at cons is a great place to pick up a bucket o'dice, or individual dice.  But any really good gaming store should sell singles, which is crucial if you're playing White Wolf or Shadowrun and only need d10's or d6's.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Tribute required" - 6/22/2011 4:26:10 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
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quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAshBefore I answer your question, I have one of my own.

[...]

Hope that helped.


I actually had a Domina a few months ago who after a lengthy e-mail exchange said tribute was required without elaborating, I called her out on it and she expected...me to pay for dinner if we met. I don't mean to step on any toes here...but, well, no shit. That's pretty much standard operating procedure for a date or meeting; why go out of your way to label it a tribute? It was a preliminary meeting and interview anyway, so there wouldn't even be play. There were other issues and red flags with her and I ended contact for other reasons, but I'm still boggled by the choice of phraseology.



Oh...you are going to hear from some guys on that comment. I call you being a gentleman, but some are going to say otherwise.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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