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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 5:24:07 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Credible citation please.


another one was sent to confirm his findings and he also came to the same conclusions.



So you can't cite a single word to support the nonsense you're talking from either of them, then?



I pointed out one of his earlier posted links sstated that the "swimming pool" was infact a resevoir. he still hasnt got back to me.



how odd, survivors said it was a swimming pool.

then there is this:

quote:

When Höss was promoted to Berlin, his replacement, Kommandant Arthur Liebehenschel, was put in charge of just the Auschwitz camp... [...] He had the water trough near Blocks 7 and 8 converted into a swimming pool for Kapos and prisoners who worked well.


Normally after a conversion its no longer what it used to be. Now its a swimming pool.


then there is this:

quote:

Barbara Cherish, the daughter of Arthur Liebehenschel, wrote a book which was published in 2009, entitled "My father, the Auschwitz commandant." In her book, Barbara credits her father with building a swimming pool for the use of the prisoners. Liebehenschel was the Commandant of the Auschwitz main camp for five months, beginning on December 1, 1943. Liebehenschel is credited with other improvements at Auschwitz I, including the tearing down of the standing cells in Block 11.



what good does it do to post links when no one reads them.

of course none of this is from an isreali approved source so its ok I do not expect you to consider it credible.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/23/2013 5:47:26 PM >


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 8:38:52 PM   
Real0ne


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ron claimed to have the answer.

well until I asked for his citation.

_____________________________

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 8:50:58 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

enjoy the links



what, like the one from Rense.com about the swimming pool.

It`s fucking laughable, one conpiracist quoting another as actual fact.



I posed a question to VAA on realone's posts concerning the Holocaust, pointing out the legal groups and stands that have been made proving Holocaust Denial is an antisemitic stand against Jews, I am awaiting the response.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 9:04:26 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo

No, I didn't use Wiki much either when I completed my history degree. The problem is that its very difficult to find a reputable source willing to mention that particular report, except to completely discredit it. I mention my history degree because it is the same degree Lauchtner claimed qualified him to complete his engineering report.

You don't have to dig up the references anyway, I already know them. At this point I'm genuinely curious as to whether you do, or if it is just all about the swimming pools. You could be so much better at this if you did a bit of research.



yeh right this moment it is all about the swimming pools and everything those prisoners testified to in the deposition.


The prisoner soccer games, orchestra, plays, canteena, library, and several more.


If you are a history major I frankly would expect you know these existed.





Well, the way that history works usually is that a historian evaluates the quality of the source material available for a particular position. I evaluated the quality of your video, and found it wanting on the basis that it contained only six testimonies. If I was to show you a video which had seven (more even) holocaust survivors which said the concentration camps were actually pretty awful would your head explode? Once again, I don't care about swimming pools. Have you ever heard of the Wansee Conference? The evidence is there if you know where to look for it ;-)



Well apparently historians then have a very strange set of rules of examination and if that is true they cannot be trusted.

if the color blue is assigned to a specific wavelength and 50,000 people claim its red we turn to the actual material facts to make the determination. We measure the wavelength to be the correct for a blue match hence 50,000 witness's were hallucinating.

Very simple procedure.

Now we examine the evidence, as you can see from the previous post a cement basin was created with the intent of being a pool for the prisoners enjoyment by commandant Arthur Liebehenschel way back in 1943;

quote:


Barbara Cherish, the daughter of Arthur Liebehenschel, wrote a book which was published in 2009, entitled "My father, the Auschwitz commandant." In her book, Barbara credits her father with building a swimming pool for the use of the prisoners. Liebehenschel was the Commandant of the Auschwitz main camp for five months, beginning on December 1, 1943. Liebehenschel is credited with other improvements at Auschwitz I, including the tearing down of the standing cells in Block 11.


when we inspect the site by golly there is in fact a swimming pool directly beside the prisoners barracks.

Now please show us one reservoir that has diving boards and a fountain spraying if you wish to make a "reasonable" rebuttal.

Keep in mind that anything that would retain a large volume of water could serve a secondary purpose as a water reservoir for whatever purpose.

Now the design demonstrates without any doubt the primary use was intended to be a swimming pool since it has diving apparatus attached as do the one in theins and ravenbruck.

So I will risk posting the pics





now since you are a historian I am sure that you will be thanking me for this information since the evidence matches the testimony and none of your 50,000 survivors said it did not exist so this stands as fact.

oh and here are the survivors that talked about all the fun entertainment they had while in the work camp

Unfortunately I would lay bets that jeff even though he initially brought it up will report this to find something to get it pulled.

it is rather shocking aint it? I mean that it unless you just happened to get lucky and read the right book that it takes nearly 70 years to find this out?


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/23/2013 9:09:46 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 9:12:19 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

enjoy the links



what, like the one from Rense.com about the swimming pool.

It`s fucking laughable, one conpiracist quoting another as actual fact.



I posed a question to VAA on realone's posts concerning the Holocaust, pointing out the legal groups and stands that have been made proving Holocaust Denial is an antisemitic stand against Jews, I am awaiting the response.



I never denied the holocaust, I said it has yet to be proven.

How did you conjure up that I denied it?

In this thread no less?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 9:13:38 PM   
Real0ne


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Did I make that call or fucking what!

HAHAHA,

way to go jeff, lie to the mods

so whats up with that Jeff, you have a direct line to VAA?

How interesting!

Jeff in order to make a legal argument you have to provide the statement that I made in this thread you know.

and you know damn well it does not exist!

You cant just stand up on your soap box and spout bullshit.

Saying the holocaust is not proven means I have not taken a position of either denial or affirmation.

what are you trying to do get me banned on a blatant lie?

Thats one way to win a debate aint that right Jeff.


quote:


Holocaust Denial:
An Online Guide to Exposing and Combating Anti-Semitic Propaganda
Introduction: Denial as Anti-Semitism

Holocaust denial, which coyly refers to itself as Holocaust revisionism, has emerged after over two decades of propagandizing as an important "cutting edge" ideological cement of the diverse hate movement in the 1990s. While appearing on the surface as a rather arcane pseudo-scholarly challenge to the well-established record of Nazi genocide during the Second World War, Holocaust denial serves as a powerful conspiracy theory uniting otherwise disparate fringe groups (e.g., Liberty Lobby, various Klan factions, neo-Nazis, the Aryan Nations and other Identity groups, racist skinheads, etc.).


http://www.adl.org/holocaust/theory.asp




Is this what you are quoting jeff?

which amendment is that covered under again?







< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/23/2013 9:44:29 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/23/2013 10:01:33 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


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http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4248457 This is the definition of antisemiticism on these boards. If a link is used from a site that is operating lawfully, it is allowed, and allowed to be used in discussion, with the exception being if the comments made show antisemiticism as illustrated in the link that I provided where I discussed antisemiticism.

I would suggest everyone breathe before continuing to post on this thread.

< Message edited by VideoAdminAlpha -- 1/23/2013 10:02:48 PM >


_____________________________


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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 3:21:55 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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FR,

This thread locked for review.

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 10:28:39 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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Unlocked. Please see VAA's message above.

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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 11:00:47 AM   
thezeppo


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I rarely use MarioFinkbiner.com by the way ;-)

I'm going to move past the swimming pools now Real One, so brace yourself.

The Wannsee conference was held on January 20th 1942. It was chaired by Reynhard Heydrich and was called to discuss the final solution. I will just give you some quotes from the document itself:

"Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question"

That's not just political prisoners, that's every Jewish person in Europe

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)"

This is important because it debunks one of the claims holocaust deniers who aren't obsessed with swimming pools usually make, that the gas chambers could not possibly have intended to kill that many. As shown here, they weren't. Forced labour was to be the thing that killed the majority.

"In the course of the final solution plans, the Nuremberg Laws should provide a certain foundation, in which a prerequisite for the absolute solution of the problem is also the solution to the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood."

I included this because of your political prisoners point before. Someone isn't a political prisoner based on much 'Jewishness' is in their blood.

"State Secretary Dr. Bühler stated that the General Government would welcome it if the final solution of this problem could be begun in the General Government, since on the one hand transportation does not play such a large role here nor would problems of labor supply hamper this action. Jews must be removed from the territory of the General Government as quickly as possible, since it is especially here that the Jew as an epidemic carrier represents an extreme danger"

"SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann advocates the opinion that sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization.

State Secretary Dr. Stuckart maintains that carrying out in practice of the just mentioned possibilities for solving the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood will create endless administrative work. In the second place, as the biological facts cannot be disregarded in any case, State Secretary Dr. Stuckart proposed proceeding to forced sterilization."

Adolf Eichmann's testimony;

"In June, I think, the war began, June or July, let us say the beginning of the war was in July. And I suppose two months later, possibly it was three months, at any rate it was towards the end of summer...I shall tell you presently why I know this - that it was towards the end of summer - at the time when Heydrich ordered me to come to him.

I presented myself and he said to me: "The Fuehrer..." for this was a matter of emigration etc. etc., accompanied by a short introductory speech..."the Fuehrer has given orders for the physical destruction of the Jews." "

He describes worse than that, but I won't quote it here because I think that really will get the thread closed. Here is some more though that I think is relevant:

"I do not know any more who gave the order about those...about those things...gave the order...yes, gave the order...yes, of course the Chief of the Security Police and the SD gave the order - it was he who gave the order for this - this is absolutely clear.

But even he was obliged to receive an instruction from the Reichsfuehrer-SS - namely Himmler - he could never have done such a thing on his own. And Himmler too, must have had his detailed orders from Hitler otherwise, unless Hitler had ordered this, he would have been fired out of hand."

Shows the general nature of Nazi governance; Chaotic, disorganised. This is the reason holocaust deniers can gain any traction, there has always been a debate about the nature of Nazi government. See the Intentionalist vs Structuralist debate. Personally I would go along with Kershaw on cumulative radicalisation and working towards the fuhrer

"the Conference of Wannsee was very important, for here Heydrich received his authority as the person in charge of the solution, or the final solution of the Jewish question."

On the question of sterilisation, the 1939 T4 program extended the sterilisation program to allow doctors to take the lives of those that were found to be undesirable when breeding. Therefore both 'Evacuation to the East' and 'Sterilisation' can be considered to mean genocide.

I got this information from the learning resources I made for my A level class. There is plentiful online information regarding the T4 program, the Wannsee conference, and Eichmann's testimony. I have told you where the information is, now you show us how much you care about the truth.

Or are we going straight back to swimming pools?

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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 11:17:44 AM   
thezeppo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


now since you are a historian I am sure that you will be thanking me for this information since the evidence matches the testimony and none of your 50,000 survivors said it did not exist so this stands as fact.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets start with what we are talking about.

Have you validated the people in that interview as actually being held prisoner at the camps? yes or no?

Have you researched and validated that what they said is true. The prisoner soccer games, orchestra, plays, canteena, library, and several more. Yes or no?

I am thinking no and no.



There seems to be a slight inconsistency in the relative level of proof you are asking for from either side of this discussion. I just thought I would point that out.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 1:57:43 PM   
kiwisub12


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Ya know RealOne, if i was going to murder hundreds of thousands of people in a confined area, i wouldn't make it look menacing and gothic looking. I'd plant gardens of flowers and have people playing soothing music, to allay fears of the people stumbling out of the cattle cars.

Oh wait ...................... that is exactly what they did!

perhaps your vaulted swimming pool is in the same catagory, and perhaps the prisoners that got to use it were ethnic Germans who were in there for political reasons. As for the entertainment - I understand that in military POW camps the prisoners did all these things to keep their moral up - perhaps your entertainments occurred for the same reasons.

I don't understand your apparent feeling that a swimming pool negates what happened at that camp. Very odd.

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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 2:13:35 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Ya know RealOne, if i was going to murder hundreds of thousands of people in a confined area, i wouldn't make it look menacing and gothic looking. I'd plant gardens of flowers and have people playing soothing music, to allay fears of the people stumbling out of the cattle cars.

Oh wait ...................... that is exactly what they did!

perhaps your vaulted swimming pool is in the same catagory, and perhaps the prisoners that got to use it were ethnic Germans who were in there for political reasons. As for the entertainment - I understand that in military POW camps the prisoners did all these things to keep their moral up - perhaps your entertainments occurred for the same reasons.

I don't understand your apparent feeling that a swimming pool negates what happened at that camp. Very odd.



Bingo. The firefighting reservoirs were used by political prisoners and SS guards, not by the rest of the camp population.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 3:17:41 PM   
Powergamz1


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That still seems to leave the fundamental question unanswered.

If a poster claims that the Holocaust never happened, or that Arab countries never attacked Israel, or that The Protocols are true, or that there was no Transjordan, or any one of a number of Racism v 2.0 memes, that doesn't violate the TOS because they aren't blatantly derogatory toward Jews as a race or a religion. They are simply lies designed to blame the victim.

Racism v2.0 is designed to be covert, to evade charges of blatant racism/anti-semitism, while carrying water for bigotry.
http://www.colorlines.com/archives/2009/09/tim_wise_on_racism_20.html
http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/holocaust.asp

So, if it it CollarMe's official policy that such 'cleverly worded' sentiments are allowed here because they are covert, then so be it.

But the question was asked (and ignored)... 'Is calling those memes exactly what they are, i.e. anti-semitic, or 'StormFront stock in trade', or 'Hamas agit-prop', or 'straight out of David Irving'... is that debunking itself a TOS violation?'



quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

Unlocked. Please see VAA's message above.



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RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 3:57:43 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That still seems to leave the fundamental question unanswered.

If a poster claims that the Holocaust never happened, or that Arab countries never attacked Israel, or that The Protocols are true, or that there was no Transjordan, or any one of a number of Racism v 2.0 memes, that doesn't violate the TOS because they aren't blatantly derogatory toward Jews as a race or a religion. They are simply lies designed to blame the victim.

Racism v2.0 is designed to be covert, to evade charges of blatant racism/anti-semitism, while carrying water for bigotry.
http://www.colorlines.com/archives/2009/09/tim_wise_on_racism_20.html
http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/holocaust.asp

So, if it it CollarMe's official policy that such 'cleverly worded' sentiments are allowed here because they are covert, then so be it.

But the question was asked (and ignored)... 'Is calling those memes exactly what they are, i.e. anti-semitic, or 'StormFront stock in trade', or 'Hamas agit-prop', or 'straight out of David Irving'... is that debunking itself a TOS violation?'



quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

Unlocked. Please see VAA's message above.





Holocaust - Is that where hitler systematically murdered 6 million Jewish people in world war 2?





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/24/2013 3:59:18 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 4:03:20 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Ya know RealOne, if i was going to murder hundreds of thousands of people in a confined area, i wouldn't make it look menacing and gothic looking. I'd plant gardens of flowers and have people playing soothing music, to allay fears of the people stumbling out of the cattle cars.

Oh wait ...................... that is exactly what they did!

perhaps your vaulted swimming pool is in the same catagory, and perhaps the prisoners that got to use it were ethnic Germans who were in there for political reasons. As for the entertainment - I understand that in military POW camps the prisoners did all these things to keep their moral up - perhaps your entertainments occurred for the same reasons.

I don't understand your apparent feeling that a swimming pool negates what happened at that camp. Very odd.



what happened at that camp?




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 4:05:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Bingo. The firefighting reservoirs were used by political prisoners and SS guards, not by the rest of the camp population.



Thank you Jeff we have already established that point

quote:



Barbara Cherish, the daughter of Arthur Liebehenschel, wrote a book which was published in 2009, entitled "My father, the Auschwitz commandant." In her book, Barbara credits her father with building a swimming pool for the use of the prisoners. Liebehenschel was the Commandant of the Auschwitz main camp for five months, beginning on December 1, 1943. Liebehenschel is credited with other improvements at Auschwitz I, including the tearing down of the standing cells in Block 11.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 4:07:09 PM   
kiwisub12


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Apparently, reading comprehension isn't one of your talents. Read the first paragraph or so.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 4:13:09 PM   
Real0ne


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yeh you are telling us how you would do it if you were to murder thousands of people.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Antisemiticism on the collarme boards. - 1/24/2013 4:26:24 PM   
Politesub53


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Realone. You are an ignorant shit at times. There may be an argument about the actual figures, are they closer to five million or six million. Either way, it doesnt matter, there is no doubt there was a holocaust, not just of Jews but other nationalities and disparate groups.

For you to suggest otherwise may well be okay under freedom of speech, but it is vile ignorant bollocks.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 200
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