quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I don't think that antisemitism is necessarily a matter of bigotry, keep in mind there are some people on the internet who are quite reality challenged.

I've talked to people who think that the universe is a figment of their imagination, people who think that unicorns exist, even people who think that circumcision is a form of DNA altering mind control.

So the belief you're talking about may not be evidence of racism, alternatively it could well be evidence of paranoid delusions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I don't think that antisemitism is necessarily a matter of bigotry, keep in mind there are some people on the internet who are quite reality challenged.

I've talked to people who think that the universe is a figment of their imagination, people who think that unicorns exist, even people who think that circumcision is a form of DNA altering mind control.

So the belief you're talking about may not be evidence of racism, alternatively it could well be evidence of paranoid delusions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Bigotry has its own special definition... that of refusing to examine or accept any other point of view. Bigotry isn't neccessarily racist, adamant flat-earthers could be bigots.

Holocaust deniers who don't stop with refusing to accept history or geography, also add in derogatory propaganda that a specific group with identifiable shared characteristics (Jews as a whole) are inferior via the shared moral defect of starting all the current violence out of their innate venal nature.

So where is the line between advocating a form of racism, and just carrying water for it? The 'Big Lie' depends on carriers.

Seems to me that 'innnocently' repeating the most deceitful propaganda memes is somewhat like shooting a gun out of the window of a speeding car at night, and claiming that one 'couldn't see where it hurt anything'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I don't think that antisemitism is necessarily a matter of bigotry, keep in mind there are some people on the internet who are quite reality challenged.

I've talked to people who think that the universe is a figment of their imagination, people who think that unicorns exist, even people who think that circumcision is a form of DNA altering mind control.

So the belief you're talking about may not be evidence of racism, alternatively it could well be evidence of paranoid delusions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I'm trying to point out that it could be a matter of mental illness not antisemitism. In certain cases the sort of thing the OP is talking about could be a symptom instead of a position.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
keep in mind there are some people on the internet who are quite reality challenged.

I've talked to people who think that the universe is a figment of their imagination, people who think that unicorns exist, even people who think that circumcision is a form of DNA altering mind control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well so far, we have nothing except some profound displays of kerr-dunning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I'm trying to point out that it could be a matter of mental illness not antisemitism. In certain cases the sort of thing the OP is talking about could be a symptom instead of a position.

In that case, due to the extent of the delusion of one particular poster, institutionalized seems the appropriate solution.

quote:

HOLOCAUST HAS ONE MEANING, and it is not genocide.

Death by burning historically has aspects of human sacrifice. (Theodor W. Adorno.)[3] (Horkheimer, M., Adorno T.W. (1947), Dialektik der Aufklärung. Philosophische Fragmente, Amsterdam: Querido; p. 199ff. Hughes (2007)


The Old Testament of the Bible documents the Jewish sacrificial burning (holocaust) rituals in several places.

"Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)

The Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." (Exodus 13:2)

She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)

This is where the words destruction comes in but only to the extend that what is being sacrificed is completely not useable to the person making the sacrifice, like the daughter to the father or the meat is not longer edible etc etc

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)

He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)



HOLOCAUST

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos "whole", and kaustos "burnt") the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity.

As employed in the Vulgate, it corresponds to two Hebrew terms:

(1) to holah, literally: "that which goes up", either to the altar to be sacrificed, or to heaven in the sacrificial flame;

(2) Kalil, literally: "entire", "perfect", which, as a sacrificial term, is usually a descriptive synonym of holah, and denotes an offering consumed wholly on the altar.

At whatever time and by whomsoever offered, holocausts were naturally regarded as the highest, because the most complete, outward expression of man's reverence to God. It is, indeed, true that certain passages of the prophets of Israel have been construed by modern critics into an utter rejection of the offering of sacrifices, the holocausts included; but this position is the outcome of a partial view of the evidence, of the misconception of an attack on abuses as an attack on the institution which they had infected. For details concerning this point, and for a discussion of the place which the same scholars assign to the holah (holocaust) in their theory of the development of the sacrificial system among the Hebrews, see SACRIFICE.


The following is a concise statement of the Mosaic Law as contained chiefly in what critics commonly call the Priests' Code, concerning whole burnt-offerings.
Victims for holocausts

Only animals could be offered in holocaust; for human victims, which were sacrificed by the Canaanites and by other peoples, were positively excluded from the legitimate worship of Yahweh (cf. Leviticus 18:21; 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 12:31; etc.).

In general, the victims had to be taken either from the herd (young bullocks) or from the flock (sheep or goats); and, to be acceptable, the animal was required to be a male, as the more valuable, and without blemish, as only then worthy of God (Leviticus 1:2, 3, 5, 10; 22:17 sqq.).

In certain cases, however, birds (only turtle-doves or young pigeons) were offered in holocaust (Leviticus 1:14; etc.); these birds were usually allowed to the poor as a substitute for the larger and more expensive animals (Leviticus 5:7; 12:8; 14:22), and were even directly prescribed in some cases of ceremonial uncleanness (Leviticus 15:14, 15, 29, 30).
Game and fishes, which were sacrificed in some pagan worships of Western Asia, were not objects of sacrifice in the Mosaic Law.


Ritual of holocausts

The principle rites to be carried out in the offering of holocausts, were

(1) on the part of the offerer, that he should bring the animal to the door of the tabernacle, impose his hands on its head, slay it to the north of the altar, flay and cut up its carcass, and wash its entrails and legs;

(2) on the part of the priest, that he should receive the blood of the victim, sprinkle it about the altar, and burn the offering. In the case of an offering of birds, it was the priest who killed the victims and flung aside as unsuitable their crop and feathers (Leviticus 1).

In public sacrifices, it was also the priest's duty to slay the victims, being assisted on occasions by the Levites. The inspection of the entrails, which played a most important part in the sacrifices of several ancient people, notably of the Phoenicians, had no place in the Mosaic ritual.


Classes of holocausts

Among the Hebrews, holocausts were of two general kinds, according as their offering was prescribed by the Law or the result of private vow or devotion.

The obligatory holocausts were

(1) the daily burnt-offering of a lamb; this holocaust was made twice a day (at the third and ninth hour), and accompanied by a cereal oblation and a libation of wine (Exodus 29:38-42; Numbers 28:3-8);

(2) the sabbath burnt-offering, which included the double amount of all the elements of the ordinary daily holocaust (Numbers 28:9, 10);

(3) the festal burnt-offering, celebrated at the New Moon, the Pasch, on the Feast of Trumpets, the day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles, on which occasions the number of the victims and the quantity of the other offerings were considerably increased;

(4) the holocausts prescribed for the consecration of a priest (Exodus 29:15 sqq.; Leviticus 8:18; 9:12), at the purification of women (Leviticus 12:6-8), at the cleansing of lepers (Leviticus 14:19, 20), at the purgation of ceremonial uncleanness (Leviticus 15:15, 30), and finally in connection with the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6:11, 16).

In the voluntary burnt-offerings the number of the victims was left to the liberality or to the wealth of the offerer (cf. 1 Kings 3:4; 1 Chronicles 29:21, etc., for very large voluntary holocausts), and the victims might be supplied by the Gentiles, a permission of which Augustus actually availed himself, according to Philo (Legatio ad Caium, xl).
Chief purposes of holocausts

Principal purposes of the whole burnt-offerings prescribed by the Mosaic Law:

(1) By the total surrender and destruction of victims valuable, pure, innocent, and most nearly connected with man, holocausts vividly recalled to the Hebrews of old the supreme dominion of God over His creatures, and suggested to them the sentiments of inner purity and entire self-surrender to the Divine Majesty, without which even those most excellent sacrifices could not be of any account before the Almighty Beholder of the secrets of the heart.

(2) In offering holocausts with the proper dispositions worshippers could feel assured of acceptance with God, Who then looked upon the victims as a means of atonement for their sins (Leviticus 1:4), as a well-pleasing sacrifice on their behalf (Leviticus 1:3, 9), and as a cleansing from whatever defilement might have prevented them from appearing worthily before Him (Leviticus 14:20).

(3) The holocausts of the Old Law foreshadowed the great and perfect sacrifice which Jesus, the High Priest of the New Law and the true Lamb of God, was to offer in fulfillment of all the bloody sacrifices of the first covenant (Hebrews 9:12, sqq.; etc.).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Actually jews are simply seeking a land that they can call their own where they are not subject to the whims of a larger population that has been proven to hate them enough to commit genocide.

Well if that's what they want, then first thing they have to do is either get rid of all the non-Jews or else insure that they are reduced to a suppressed minority. Hmmm. Yeah, that sounds about right.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
<SNIP>
...That said, however, I could do with less of this business of calling people "anti-Semites" or "racists". If a post falls under the site's guidelines as being anti-Semitic or racist, it gets yanked and sanctions are applied. If it doesn't, then in my view the name-calling should be yanked and sanctions applied. I'm much more willing to tolerate an occasional angry "fuck you" or a frustrated "you idiot" than these vile attacks on a person's character every time some arrogant fuck decides that racism or anti-Semitism is whatever he says it is.

K.