quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Let me flip the question, why would a company give a job to someone with the same skills for less? Why? What makes them more valuable as a human being.

From your post I take is that you would rather sport jobs to another country, and let those with a poor education in your country sit on their fat asses without the ability, knowledge, or education to get a higher paying job. All the while they collect welfare and become enrolled in social services that YOU pay for?

It makes more sense to sell a good to another country than it does to sell the employment and try to buy those same items back in the west. Ever see those "Made in China" labels? yeah, thats a good which could have been made by a North American who could have had a decent paying job.

Where do you think all the extra money goes? When a company makes more money by producing items in a 3rd world country, the money doesn't go back to the people, it goes into their pockets. Please respond, I oh so enjoy your smart ass sarcasm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

I recently read up on a piece about Walmart and their poor wages, as well as the Koch Brothers publicly criticizing a town for raising the minimum wage to 15$ an hour (Links will be supplied upon request, but beware, it is a very biased Liberal source and should be taken at face value as all "news" sources should). Regardless of the accuracy and bias of these pieces, it did make me think in depth about the minimum wage battle happening in the states between the left and right. If minimum wage is low, and people cannot survive on these wages and simply cannot get a higher paying job, they may be forced to go on welfare and get food stamps, which is consuming valuable tax payer money.

From what I understand of American conservatives, they want to cut food stamps and welfare, gut social security, and at the same time, wanting to keep the minimum wage below livable standards. I realize that conservatives tout about saying "anyone can make it in america and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, make some good money and not depend on handouts," but in a country where higher level workers, like those working at Hostes for example, would rather give themselves massive bonuses while the company goes bankrupt just speaks volumes. There more to this situation than simple motivation, and being a current university student I'm exposed to it on a yearly basis as I struggle to find a summer job (thank god I live with my parents in the summer) and this is in canada, I can't even imagine what it's like in the states for kids like me.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't understand the conservative's position. They want to keep the minimum wage low, and cut social services at the same time. If the wages are low, their tax money is still being spent to keep these people alive. If they raised the minimum wage, it wouldn't affect prices much so long as the upper level CEOs are willing to part with a bit of their monthly income to keep the company prosperous. Sure it's not an easy compromise when industry in the states clearly has such a hold over government policy. But the contradiction is completely ridiculous. The conservatives, and I can easily assume that moderates and liberals as well, don't want to pay more for every day goods. But isn't it kind of redundant when you're paying the same if not maybe more in taxes to keep people alive? Where are you actually saving money? Or are you not? Please help fill me in.

Sincerely,

- A concerned Canadian Neighbor

The key point you don't seem to understand is that minimum wage is an entry level wage not a living wage.
Point two is that when you bring up the minimum wage everything else comes up, including the wages of many who have a higher pay that minimum. Many unions get a equal percentage wage increase whenever the minimum wage goes up.
In a year 15 an hour will get you the same amount the current minimum gets you today.
Finally the answer to all the problems you mentioned isn't raising the minimum wage, it is creating more jobs that pay better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExoticInterests

Well, let's try this one. How about an employer can offer what they think the job is worth. If the employee is worth more than that, the competition will gladly offer that employee a little more $. If the first employer doesn't raise what he's willing to pay too, he will soon find himself with no competent employees and out of business. This works best for skilled jobs, but lets not forget that the service industry still actually does involve skill, or at least some sense....everyone has had rude, dirty, incompetent cashier's (for example)...did it make you want to go back there? If the competition offers a little bit better pay but only employs people that treat the customer well and make a good impression, and you do not, then you will be left with the bottom of the bucket. Want proof, compare Chick-fil-A and that grease joint with the arches. Which do you enjoy more?

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ORIGINAL: girl4man

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

It just sounds like conservatives don't care about other people and for all they care, they can just go ahead and die poor. Thats the gist of it.

It's so sad to read you think that way. Sad but unsurprising. Everything that BamaD said is true, and of course, being in a homo sapiens system, it's much more complex.

The truth is, that "conservatives" care much more about poor people than those wishing to raise the minimum wage. But rather than tell you why that's so, because I don't have the time (another thing that entry level employees cost employers - most of the time - all of the time -- I can do the work I hire an entry level employee to do, faster and better), the easiest way for you to find the folly of your position, is to start a business. A real business. Try to make it.

In the course of running a business, you'll learn so much, even if you fail.

It's a real eye opener.

All the best to our teenagers. Here's hoping you don't get further priced out of the job market, for the truth is, at the beginning, you cost me money, and you don't make me any money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

Here's a brain teaser for you guys on this thread: Is it more selfish to want the price of corn high or low?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExoticInterests

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That theory is disproven daily in this nation.

I was a computer programmer, a very good and very successful one. I, and a lot of people like me, demanded wages reflective of my competence. After a while, when trade laws started allowing it, corporate America outsourced as many programmer jobs as they could to India and Pakistan. They didn't care that quality went down, that projects too longer and costs actually went up. All they cared about was keeping people without an MBA from making a decent living for a skilled job.

That was very mean and spiteful of them! They sacrificed profit just to push people without an MBA down? And that was all they cared about, just keeping you down....not what they thought would be best for the business at the time (whether it really was or not)?

So where do you draw the line of competition for your skills? This hemisphere? This country? Your state, county, city? Exactly where should they limit themselves for finding the most skill at the best price? And why?

It's the modern age, a programmer should know distance means nothing, skill means everything. Perhaps they made a stupid decision, they will lose money and change course, or be eaten by smarter competition.

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ORIGINAL: bossman777

Maybe you should consider the causes of inflation instead. Inflation is the result of a government decree too--that you must use their units to pay your debts. They create these units out of thin air and spend them and wala, the value of the other dollars you and I sweat for, goes down. Big surprise. Honest money is the only thing to keep governments in line. Like bitcoin. I see it hit $1000 today. Finally, an honest currency--and it's not controlled by any government. It's beautiful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

That kinda ignores a lot of principles of economics, the biggest of which being inflation. Inflation has raised prices over the years, but from what I know, minimum wage in the US hasn't gone up to compensate since the mid 1900s. How can you keep up with inflation if you're making less than what you need to survive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Did you not read what I wrote? By every single metric outsourcing programmers was bad for the companies that did it. Quality went down, projects took longer and costs went up. But they got to fire a bunch of highly paid US coders. Check around with any programmers who were working in the late 90's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think
The average age of affected workers is 35 years old;
88 percent of all affected workers are at least 20 years old;
35.5 percent are at least 40 years old;
56 percent are women;
28 percent have children;
55 percent work full-time (35 hours per week or more);
44 percent have at least some college experience.
http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Did you not read what I wrote? By every single metric outsourcing programmers was bad for the companies that did it. Quality went down, projects took longer and costs went up. But they got to fire a bunch of highly paid US coders. Check around with any programmers who were working in the late 90's.

United Airlines outsourced it's reservations and agency services desk to India and Philippines. It was frustrating to customers and especially agents who knew more about air travel than the employees of those call centers. They've since moved those call centers back to the US.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

Here's a brain teaser for you guys on this thread: Is it more selfish to want the price of corn high or low?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

It just sounds like conservatives don't care about other people and for all they care, they can just go ahead and die poor. Thats the gist of it.