RE: Dominance and Selfishness

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 8:32:48 AM

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NBM, it's just a joke with Peon, he doesn't live too far from me and ages ago we joked around, I sent him a text message, pretending to be the stereotypical Domme, something along the lines of "Couldn't reach you, call me, slut!" And Peon joked back "That gave me a little tingle!"

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 1:16:42 PM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

In another thread we were talking about a master who seemed to ignore his sub, and punished her for continuing to discuss something. He wanted something a certain way, and he didn't seem to want to listen to anything about changing it. It led me to think about something that worries me greatly: what is the relationship between, or difference between, dominance and selfishness?

Or is it a passive aggressive attempt at manipulation on the part of the submissive. Bringing up an issue over and over and over and over and over can be an attempt to wear someone down and get them to give in through sheer exhaustion.
There are people in this world that will not provide input during the decision making process but will harp and snipe over the decisions made.
In a D/s dynamic; the decision making has been delegated to the dominant. The submissive demands it. <grin> Snarking after the decision has been made is being bratty.
Not being privy to the details (and not all that interested, really) my scenario may not be the situation. I just offer an explanation of why a submissive would be punished for bringing up an issue over and over after her dominant had decided how he wanted things.

Yeah-that wouldn't fly in my house. She might get a whine or two out, but it wouldn't be long before I'd be looking at her and saying, "WTF have you mistaken this for, a democracy? You do as I tell you, how I tell you, when I tell you, what I tell you. If you have any complaints about that, mayhaps you want to give some thought to the basis of our interactions and your desire to continue therein."

A smidgen of sass is cute, even becoming.
Outright balking and defiance-that's a whole different deal.

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(in reply to MercTech)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 2:32:02 PM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
A smidgen of sass is cute, even becoming.
Outright balking and defiance-that's a whole different deal.

This is where the primal thing comes in.

If he doesn't outright defy me, I'm disappointed. I'd rather he tried and then I'll force him to obey my will.

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Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to Kana)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 2:44:02 PM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
A smidgen of sass is cute, even becoming.
Outright balking and defiance-that's a whole different deal.

This is where the primal thing comes in. If he doesn't outright defy me, I'm disappointed. I'd rather he tried and then I'll force him to obey my will.

Yeah-I took all sorts of martial arts as a kid, as well as a few years of full contact fighting.
We don't throw down. If we did, I would mop the floor with her by reflex.
Something about being in prison left me with a massive aversion to people with violent eyes getting in my space. I don't react well at all and when I do it tends to be instinctive

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to pg4g)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 3:16:32 PM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g
This is where the primal thing comes in. If he doesn't outright defy me, I'm disappointed. I'd rather he tried and then I'll force him to obey my will.

Yeah-I took all sorts of martial arts as a kid, as well as a few years of full contact fighting.
We don't throw down. If we did, I would mop the floor with her by reflex.
Something about being in prison left me with a massive aversion to people with violent eyes getting in my space. I don't react well at all and when I do it tends to be instinctive

I do mixed martial arts as part of my job. A large part of it is schooling my reactions, and being disciplined. I'm acutely away I could seriously hurt him, so I have those reactions sort of "switched off" in my head.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 5:13:32 PM

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Yeah, I'm not really into nagging and pushing Master. I just see it as being disrespectful to him and if he gave in to that I would start to wonder just whose running the show. I mean, if that's all it takes to get my way, he's definitely not going to be someone I"m attracted to.

And the fighting thing would just wear me out. I'm exhausted everyday as it is. Most days I just want to relax and not have to keep telling someone to do something or ask him constantly about something. That would be extremely, extremely annoying to me.

My daughter was the type that would do that to me until it got to the point where I"d explode and we'd have an out and out right fight. It was never, ever pretty and we both ended up angry angry and in tears.

I shudder to even think about something like that in a relationship.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 9:20:10 PM

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I don't see selfishness as part of dominance though it can be. But let's be clear that selfishness is not about caring for ones own basic needs or fighting for survival. To me when you talk about selfishness we are talking about a person that seeks to hoard well beyond needs and often at the expense of those around them. What they hoard can be the tangible things like money and gold to the more in tiles like attention and time.

What I find rather interesting is that it's been my experience that a selfish d-type takes everything from a s-type and gives little in return.
While the selfish s-type gives little to the D-type and seeks to take everything from there D-type. Just a interesting twist that this trait has depending on ones side of the coin. It's the same but some how different.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 9:30:47 PM

pg4g

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True. But the dominant is in a unique position of command, and that makes using people just that little bit easier... ;)

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Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/6/2014 11:25:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

True. But the dominant is in a unique position of command, and that makes using people just that little bit easier... ;)

I find a person that uses people finds the appropriate person that allows them to be used regardless of what side of the coin they are on.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to pg4g)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/7/2014 5:52:52 PM

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If balking occurred all the time, then I'd say there's a mismatch.

If it's just once in a while, I'd assume that a problem has arisen which needs discussing.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/7/2014 6:55:29 PM

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My late dom claimed to be selfish - he wanted what he wanted, when he wanted, how he wanted.

The thing was, was that what he wanted was what I wanted, so what he wanted wasn't selfish because it fulfilled me. In fact, if he hadn't been so definite in what he wanted, he wouldn't have been the dom for me. It isn't selfish if what he wants is what I want, but from outside our relationship, I can see where people might think it was. After all, it appears that all the advantages in the relationship were his. Its just that in actuality we both got what we wanted.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/7/2014 7:11:10 PM

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That's how I discovered I was dominant: I was used to egalitarian orgasms. One day my first 'real' boyfriend stopped after he had come, blaming me for my not orgasming because 'I had started it'. I blamed myself for wanting more, then something snapped.
I marched into the shower, forced him to his knees and rode his face until I came [and he almost drowned]. Afterwards, my legs were so shaky from the adrenaline and climax he had to hand me out, he towelled me off, and walked me to the bed.
I pondered whether to apologise but I didn't feel it, and then he admitted he was so aroused by what I'd demanded and done, and he ate me out again.
*so* I learned being sexually demanding of a good man, vanilla or sub, isn't selfish; it's taking and receiving pleasure from someone who gets pleasure from giving it. And the more orgasms I get, the harder I come.
Nifty.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/8/2014 11:24:24 AM

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A lot of good comments here, especially with regards to how selfishness is woven into most of our motives.

It might be easier to think of the word "self-regard" which has a more neutral connotation.

Our desire for a relationship stems from a lot of self regarding motivations- (I want someone attractive, I want someone kind, I want someone who accept my imperfection, I want I want I want...)
This isn't a negative- its a normal healthy desire when it is matched with mature altruism- ( I will accept their imperfections, I will honor their needs and desires...)

With BDSM, since we embrace things which are ordinarily shunned- pain, sacrifice, servitude- its easy to lose sight of the fact the normal dynamic still applies- instead of "I want him to buy me roses" it becomes "I want him to whip my ass with a thorny rose stem"- but it is still the first half of the equation. What remains to be seen is the second half- (I will lovingly defer my desire if he is tired or not in the mood).

(in reply to Tantriqu)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/8/2014 11:55:59 AM

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I really find this particular topic interesting. To be honest, I was mortified by what the sub said, and honestly...hard and soft limits should be known before height and eye color.
There has to be some level of appreciation for your sub, and the courage it takes to do a power exchange. All Doms differ in their philosophies, I get that. Some subs ARE inherently self destructive OR really have little to no limits on how far things could go. I have been offered body modifications upon FIRST MEETING a sub, I mean, how far can I push such an envelope without him requiring a hospital visit after every session? Now if he finds a Dom who fulfills that, good for him! As long as they're both happy with whatever kind of play they pursue.
I really think it boils down to the mutual enjoyment of both Dom and sub. YES, push your sub's limits...BUT NOT OVER A FREAKING CLIFF.
Someone on another thread mentioned screaming safe words til hoarse, I want to slap the shit out of her Dom. If a person is uncomfortable, you don't have the right to violate their inherent rights. It is PLAY which leads to the actual submission which is VERY cerebral. The play itself is essentially inconsequential in its context as long as that sub is getting to subspace.
If you are turning a sub off to a lifestyle they enjoy, you need to never Dom another human being, or even babysit a pet rock for that matter.
Irresponsible/inexperienced Doms should get a clue about what they're getting into before labeling their idiot selves as one. They give people an extremely distorted view of the lifestyle, and I think it has been distorted enough by the pretenders (you know who they are).

Yes, my dominance is selfish. I am very possessive, I like getting my way, marching to my drum and you follow, me me me...but the sub I take along for the ride is more than happy to indulge and their submission on some level is selfish as well because of the joy it brings them. If they didn't like it, they wouldn't comply. And some subs are best tested for the level of their selfishness an willingness to please you than fulfill some kink through chastity in my experience. There is no time I should have to be "sexual" with a sub to keep him, I DEFINE THE RULES.
And I have to bold letter this:
THE BEST KIND OF SUBMISSION FOR ME PERSONALLY, IS ONE THAT COMES FROM A PLACE OF SELFLESSNESS, you can see it in a sub's eyes when you first meet and know right away. Wonderful thing when they pass all the little tests. :)

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/8/2014 12:02:43 PM >

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The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/8/2014 12:18:15 PM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
There is no time I should have to be "sexual" with a sub to keep him, I DEFINE THE RULES.

Is 2 years a little too long?

My partner wouldn't have sex with me for that long. While we weren't D/s, I considered leaving and I'd expect a sub to as well. I just love the guy too much so I couldn't leave. At that point, only 2 years into a relationship before it went celibate, I started to think "ok, he really doesn't like me." Not an issue now, but I see there being limits on that one...

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to GoddessManko)

RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/8/2014 1:57:40 PM

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quote:

I marched into the shower, forced him to his knees and rode his face until I came [and he almost drowned].

See, that was *horny*. And it perfectly illustrates why I want a strong streak of selfishness in a woman.

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RE: Dominance and Selfishness - 3/8/2014 2:10:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
There is no time I should have to be "sexual" with a sub to keep him, I DEFINE THE RULES.

Is 2 years a little too long? My partner wouldn't have sex with me for that long. While we weren't D/s, I considered leaving and I'd expect a sub to as well. I just love the guy too much so I couldn't leave. At that point, only 2 years into a relationship before it went celibate, I started to think "ok, he really doesn't like me." Not an issue now, but I see there being limits on that one...

Hmmm...good question, I never deal with subs who have limits outside of the ones they give me, I make them fully aware of the limits and requirements. Chastity is hard for someone with a high sex drive, but I never put on my subs something I cannot handle myself so I know it's not "incredulous".
Being a Dom is work, planning, coordination. The sub pretty much just has to obey. There is SO much energy that goes into domming and I think that's something a lot of subs often overlook, and this is both with sexual or non sexual play.
If someone is dedicating their precious TIME that won't be regained to you, I think it should be appreciated despite the circumstances circumventing it. Unless this person goes out of their way to violate limits. That's something I find very little tolerance from, and there's nothing I abhor more than a defiant sub who wants to get his dick wet, LOL.
But you know, that's just me, I know for men, sex is a powerful tool, so controlling a man's cock for example is quite a thrill for me personally. Sex is an extremely huge deal for men mostly, they can put up with any pain but that's where the real intent shows I believe. :)
One example of subtle domming while sub is unaware of the test: politics. I once had a sub who I placed not only in chastity but I would debate him in politics just because of how furious it would make him. He would be googling away furiously and I'd be laughing in my head. That's a bit of sadism. Didn't mean I didn't like him, it was just another way outside of sexual context I enjoyed toying with him and it's the only time really he would defy me, I liked it, LOL. And he had no idea I was doing it purely for amusement. :)
But then, I posted on another blog that on the yahoo blogs pertaining to Lifestyle D/s, I was surprised that 7 out of 15 Doms who answered a question about CASTRATION as a YES.
That for me is a step into the extreme, but for some, it's completely OK, I once had an engineer strongly suggest to me he wanted such a thing. He said he was open to "body modification" and I didn't want to even look at his pics from his previous Dom.
On the other hand I have seen interesting things done with rubberbands and a cock that makes all kinds of strange colors emit from it, LOL.
So everyone's limits differ. It comes down to compatibility and respecting limits, whatever they are. If you make rules, RESPECT THEM, very big deal. Hope that offers perspective! :)

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/8/2014 2:16:51 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to pg4g)

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