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RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 9:39:08 AM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Her belief is no premarital sex. Where that belief comes from is totally irrelevant. To use the Bible or anything else in an attempt to change that belief makes one an absolute ass who will use whatever means necessary to get what they want. VERY much an attribute not of a dominant but of a narcissist who thinks only of themselves.
THIS. Exactly.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 11:28:24 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

Just because she is Christian does not mean that she only reads the New Testament and bases all her faith on that


It does. Her faith is not based on anything other than that. You confuse faith with knowledge and wisdom Christians gain from the entire Bible. Her knowledge and wisdom comes from all the books.

So, now you are putting words in her mouth and interpreting her faith for us.

Let me finish with this, she can decide. It is not about you or me although I know you like to write and so I encourage you to continue while at the same time wanting you to realize that statistically most people do not read anything longer than a few sentences. If you cannot make your point in a sentence or three, you cannot.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 11:34:12 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Her belief is no premarital sex. Where that belief comes from is totally irrelevant. To use the Bible or anything else in an attempt to change that belief makes one an absolute ass who will use whatever means necessary to get what they want. VERY much an attribute not of a dominant but of a narcissist who thinks only of themselves.
THIS. Exactly.



If that was her belief then there would be nothing to be conflicted about.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 11:40:34 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Just because she is Christian does not mean that she only reads the New Testament and bases all her faith on that


It does. Her faith is not based on anything other than that. You confuse faith with knowledge and wisdom Christians gain from the entire Bible. Her knowledge and wisdom comes from all the books.

So, now you are putting words in her mouth and interpreting her faith for us.

Let me finish with this, she can decide. It is not about you or me although I know you like to write and so I encourage you to continue while at the same time wanting you to realize that statistically most people do not read anything longer than a few sentences. If you cannot make your point in a sentence or three, you cannot.


So indeed, please tell me how if I write more than three sentences that I am unable to make a point? This I want to hear.

So, if I get you right, there are no religions or denominations that teach anything that is not inherently in the scriptures? We could debate the meaning of faith, but apparently for this person, she believes that sex before marriage is wrong, and because you say that isn't what the New Testament says, they are wrong to believe that, even though they have not been back to clarify anything. Anything.

Rock on my good man... it's your world, I am just an unwilling participant in it.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 1:39:39 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Her belief is no premarital sex. Where that belief comes from is totally irrelevant. To use the Bible or anything else in an attempt to change that belief makes one an absolute ass who will use whatever means necessary to get what they want. VERY much an attribute not of a dominant but of a narcissist who thinks only of themselves.
THIS. Exactly.



If that was her belief then there would be nothing to be conflicted about.

Her conflict came from being attached to a man despite having incompatible needs. It had nothing to do with her questioning her faith.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 4:00:45 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Not only was it not fun, it was not rational.
Your convoluted definition of fornication dismisses all dictionaries.

Most dictionaries give the modern English definition of the word, not its meaning in a Biblical context.

Most, that is, but not all:


Source

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

No it is not possible to snivel ones way out of the charge of adultry if one is married and fucking someone they are not married to.

It is also not possible to find anywhere that I said someone could. You have a nice day now.

K.



You cannot find one example in the Gospels where the word usage fits your definition.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 4:13:42 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Just because she is Christian does not mean that she only reads the New Testament and bases all her faith on that


It does. Her faith is not based on anything other than that. You confuse faith with knowledge and wisdom Christians gain from the entire Bible. Her knowledge and wisdom comes from all the books.

So, now you are putting words in her mouth and interpreting her faith for us.

Let me finish with this, she can decide. It is not about you or me although I know you like to write and so I encourage you to continue while at the same time wanting you to realize that statistically most people do not read anything longer than a few sentences. If you cannot make your point in a sentence or three, you cannot.


So indeed, please tell me how if I write more than three sentences that I am unable to make a point? This I want to hear.

So, if I get you right, there are no religions or denominations that teach anything that is not inherently in the scriptures? We could debate the meaning of faith, but apparently for this person, she believes that sex before marriage is wrong, and because you say that isn't what the New Testament says, they are wrong to believe that, even though they have not been back to clarify anything. Anything.

Rock on my good man... it's your world, I am just an unwilling participant in it.



Tell me why you cannot make your point in three or four sentences. Do all your points require so much to support them? Truth can be supported without such weighty prose. Jesus made his points in only several sentences. I do. You can. But we must stop diverting this thread. Now.

I don't think she believe what you say at all, which is why she is conflicted, the conflict is between her natural feelings, her faith and the teaching of whatever denomination she participates in. The first two conflict with the third and she has been made to feel bad about her natural feelings by a denomination that supplants the word of Christ with their own agenda. Fortunately we can all read the word and make our own mind up and so I suggest to the OP that she read what Jesus says for herself and not what I say or anyone else says. She needs to break the chains that have bound her to secular beliefs justified by those who twist the word of Jesus himself. Or not. It is her conflict and she can resolve it in many different ways.

Those are more than three sentences but I am addressing multiple points. Your writing style is verbose. Her belief and her conflict and how it can be resolved. Finally, how these issues of what Christians believe can be resolved not here but in the Gospels and incidently I have quoted what Jesus says about the subject and he is against adultery, abuse of children and prostitution and money changers in the temple which btw represents the use of his temple for secular motives including controlling a population by distorting his word.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 6/27/2014 4:21:46 PM >

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 4:16:24 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Her belief is no premarital sex. Where that belief comes from is totally irrelevant. To use the Bible or anything else in an attempt to change that belief makes one an absolute ass who will use whatever means necessary to get what they want. VERY much an attribute not of a dominant but of a narcissist who thinks only of themselves.
THIS. Exactly.



If that was her belief then there would be nothing to be conflicted about.

Her conflict came from being attached to a man despite having incompatible needs. It had nothing to do with her questioning her faith.


Incompatible? Then the real problem is she made a poor choice? I think that is a leap. The conflict is between what she knows and what she has been taught.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 4:48:29 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		FR

It is easy to be conflicted with your beliefs and your desires. The conflict is self imposed in all cases. This is because you have added a moral code that was not given by the Father nor the Son.

God has only a three sets of codes He imposes as "sins" or disobedience to his wishes. The first set are in the 10 Commandments. The second when Jesus indicates abuse of children will never be forgiven. The third is whatever you, yourself impose on yourself. God writes that whatever you consider wrong or a sin he will support in you while not holding another to your standard but he does hold you to your own personal code. If your own code or "commandment" to yourself is to never have sex before marriage then it is a sin in His eyes, He writes. The problem comes in when folks decide on their own code of morality and support it with their own spin on the Bible.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 5:13:43 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

FR

It is easy to be conflicted with your beliefs and your desires. The conflict is self imposed in all cases. This is because you have added a moral code that was not given by the Father nor the Son.

God has only a three sets of codes He imposes as "sins" or disobedience to his wishes. The first set are in the 10 Commandments. The second when Jesus indicates abuse of children will never be forgiven. The third is whatever you, yourself impose on yourself. God writes that whatever you consider wrong or a sin he will support in you while not holding another to your standard but he does hold you to your own personal code. If your own code or "commandment" to yourself is to never have sex before marriage then it is a sin in His eyes, He writes. The problem comes in when folks decide on their own code of morality and support it with their own spin on the Bible.



Oh, my freaking HELL. Arturas, with all due respect, you are full of crap. "God" is what we make of him. You have been drinking the Kool Aid--- which, actually, all things considered, really makes sense here.

The problem is when " folks decide on their own code of morality and support it with their own spin on the Bible." I am reminded of my favorite quote of all time...something about "religion being the opiate of the masses". Where does *your* spin come from? Some "correct" way that the masses doesn't see? When we make the assumption that people *should* believe the way that we do...we walk on a VERY tight rope.

So, Arturas, tell us...and prove me wrong....where does your view come from? Take Jesus out of it. Understand that many people do NOT believe that way.Without that crutch...give the OP some good advice without imposing your own views on it...


(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 5:24:14 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Her belief is no premarital sex. Where that belief comes from is totally irrelevant. To use the Bible or anything else in an attempt to change that belief makes one an absolute ass who will use whatever means necessary to get what they want. VERY much an attribute not of a dominant but of a narcissist who thinks only of themselves.
THIS. Exactly.



If that was her belief then there would be nothing to be conflicted about.

Her conflict came from being attached to a man despite having incompatible needs. It had nothing to do with her questioning her faith.


Incompatible? Then the real problem is she made a poor choice? I think that is a leap. The conflict is between what she knows and what she has been taught.
It's really not. People choose partners that are bad for them in the long term all the time. I'm sure you've done it, despite your all-knowing domly ways.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 5:26:21 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

FR

It is easy to be conflicted with your beliefs and your desires. The conflict is self imposed in all cases. This is because you have added a moral code that was not given by the Father nor the Son.

God has only a three sets of codes He imposes as "sins" or disobedience to his wishes. The first set are in the 10 Commandments. The second when Jesus indicates abuse of children will never be forgiven. The third is whatever you, yourself impose on yourself. God writes that whatever you consider wrong or a sin he will support in you while not holding another to your standard but he does hold you to your own personal code. If your own code or "commandment" to yourself is to never have sex before marriage then it is a sin in His eyes, He writes. The problem comes in when folks decide on their own code of morality and support it with their own spin on the Bible.
So when the OP decides that sex before marriage is a sin and decides not to do it, it would be wrong for her to compromise that belief for her dom.

It would also be wrong for her to compromise that belief on the encouragement of someone who told her on the forum that it's not a sin to begin with.

OP didn't say that nobody else should have premarital sex. In fact, she said nothing inherently wrong about her dom who wanted to have it in the first place. She said she didn't want to do that herself. Why exactly are we arguing again?


< Message edited by RockaRolla -- 6/27/2014 5:30:10 PM >

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 6:41:09 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

You cannot find one example in the Gospels where the word usage fits your definition.

Rather than engage with you on a subject that you're not equipped to debate, I hope you won't mind if I just content myself with demonstrating that you've been about your usual business of making shit up.

In the Gospels that word "fornication" is also used only in the context of sex with another man's wife.
Christ only speaks in the Gospels. In the Gospels he only uses the word fornication to describe adultery.

In reality, of course, the word "fornication" is not used only in the context of adultery, nor is it only used to describe adultery.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies ~Matthew 15:19
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders ~Mark 7:21

For your benefit should you plan to run your mouth further about the Gospels, try to remember that there's a trick to it. You have to actually read them first. I know, who'd have guessed. But that's the way it is.

You have a nice day now, and you're welcome.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/27/2014 7:38:48 PM >

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/27/2014 9:07:46 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


Tell me why you cannot make your point in three or four sentences. Do all your points require so much to support them? Truth can be supported without such weighty prose. Jesus made his points in only several sentences. I do. You can. But we must stop diverting this thread. Now.

I don't think she believe what you say at all, which is why she is conflicted, the conflict is between her natural feelings, her faith and the teaching of whatever denomination she participates in. The first two conflict with the third and she has been made to feel bad about her natural feelings by a denomination that supplants the word of Christ with their own agenda. Fortunately we can all read the word and make our own mind up and so I suggest to the OP that she read what Jesus says for herself and not what I say or anyone else says. She needs to break the chains that have bound her to secular beliefs justified by those who twist the word of Jesus himself. Or not. It is her conflict and she can resolve it in many different ways.

Those are more than three sentences but I am addressing multiple points. Your writing style is verbose. Her belief and her conflict and how it can be resolved. Finally, how these issues of what Christians believe can be resolved not here but in the Gospels and incidently I have quoted what Jesus says about the subject and he is against adultery, abuse of children and prostitution and money changers in the temple which btw represents the use of his temple for secular motives including controlling a population by distorting his word.


My writing style is just fine, don't like it? Don't read my posts. Don't like what I have to say? Don't read it. Don't want to see my posts, block me. There, I fixed that for you.

This is her belief, not your spin on her belief. My "spin" has been to support what she believes, don't bother explaining how that is contrary to anything... her system of belief is just fine. Your system of belief is just fine. Let it alone.



_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/28/2014 12:51:56 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		First, Christians follow the BIBLE as a whole, not simply the Gospels, or the few "red" phrases, attributed to the words of Jesus. If you are going to talk about what a particular denomination believes, at least comprehend it with more than your opinion.

1 Thessalonians (4, 3-8)

It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; tthat each of you should learn to control yourr own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or tak advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you the Holy Spirit.

Theoretically, modern day Christians follow the New Testament only, but that is theory. Regardlesss, the above is from the New Testament.

It is ALWAYS entertaining to watch some self proclaimed dominants prove through their words their ignorance of the minds of females, but it is disgusting that some would actually try to tell them their faith is wrong in orderr to coerce them into abandoning their faith for someone else's sexual gratification, ESPECIALLY when, through their own words, they show their ignorance of that person's faith.

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/28/2014 1:36:06 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Is that really true?

I had always understood that Christians weren't under any obligation to follow the Old Testament. Aren't Christians meant to be released from the "old law"?

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/28/2014 2:43:48 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Is that really true?

I had always understood that Christians weren't under any obligation to follow the Old Testament. Aren't Christians meant to be released from the "old law"?



If this were in either of the "religion" sections, I'm sure it would garner a few good answers. Here, I'm reticent about a gold-bordered mail for thread-jack.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/28/2014 2:53:56 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Is that really true?

I had always understood that Christians weren't under any obligation to follow the Old Testament. Aren't Christians meant to be released from the "old law"?

The problem here is that people are using the term "Christian" as if it were a very specific thing.
Unfortunately, the term is used to describe a very large and mixed umbrella.
It encompasses a huge variety of interpretations and each bible print and re-print has bits which are often phrased in such a vague way as to be almost meaningless.
Now add to that, each country has their own slant on the same (orginal) writings that the supposedly "same" version of the same book is now no longer an exact copy of each other.
Throw each individual interpretation of supposed same book into the mix with a pinch of personal circumstance, morals and teachings and you end up with a very (and I mean VERY) individualistic definition of that very same faith.
Just to complicate matters even more, the 'christian' faith has many different branches all under the same umbrella with each branch being significantly different to the other.
The term 'christian' is and of itself, a complete conumdrum.

So when people start paraphrasing or quoting specific bits in arguing the toss over certain meanings of text, it becomes a pissing contest of who's version is the one twue way to follow it.
Quite simply: there isn't a 'one twue way' and what works for one may not work for another.
They could both be correct or incorrect depending on your own perspective.

The OP stated that they are a strong christian and has also said that (for them at least) premarital sex is considered wrong and viewed with abhorent leanings.
What we don't know, and cannot even hazzard a sensible guess without knowing their entire life history and inner thoughts, exactly what branch of christianity they follow and who/what has embellished their personal interpretation of it. All we know for certain is that one aspect of their moral code, namely premarital sex, is as important to them as their faith (whatever version that is).
So to argue the semantics of religious texts is somewhat meaningless and utterly irrelevant in this case as LL neatly referred to earlier.

According to OP, she has met and has very strong feelings for a Dom that does not fit within her own personal faith box.
The conflict is between their own personal earthly feelings and their specific personal faith.
Some on here are telling them to abandon their faith and follow their feelings; others are saying to follow their own faith (and moral code) and effectively cut ties with the Dom.
To argue about what the faith is, or justify a different meaning of said faith to qualify a personal spin on the faith and thus quantify their reply to say it isn't a faith issue is a complete misnomer and red herring.


My take is the OP should follow whatever they feel is the most important to them with the usual caveat that they will have to deal with the consequences that may arise later.





_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/28/2014 6:30:55 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		*applauds freedomdwarf*

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Conflicted - PLEASE help! - 6/28/2014 6:36:57 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Is that really true?

I had always understood that Christians weren't under any obligation to follow the Old Testament. Aren't Christians meant to be released from the "old law"?

freedomdwarf1 explained this issue well, from the standpoint of how this would be relevant to the OP's situation or not, without muddying the waters; and LafayetteLady found an NT passage in alignment with the philosophical principle of parsimony (aka Occam's Razor), regardless of which branch of Christianity OP subscribes to.

I can say without too much ado, that just as Buddhists follow the teachings of Buddha (Siddhārtha Gautama), Christians follows Christ's teachings. These are contained in the NT, and there are Protestants who believe that this is sufficient.
Nevertheless, in order to fulfill Messianic prophecy, the OT Scriptures are referenced throughout the NT. Therefore, anyone who embarks upon making a more comprehensive study of their Christian faith incorporates the OT in with the NT.
This is especially critical for those who seek an understanding of eschatology, or End Times theology. Some Protestant denominations, such as Pentacostals and the Seventh Day Adventists, are very much prophecy-oriented.

Personally speaking as a Protestant, on an aside, I was raised with NT teachings which included the (OT) Book of Psalms. This is not uncommon with Protestants who believe that NT Grace supersedes or supplants the Old Law.
It wasn't until I was much older (in my late teens) that I chose to study the OT on my own, as many of my Catholic friends were already familiar with.

This doesn't answer your question, but I did want to provide you with a bit of background info as to how the OT ties in with the NT from the perspective of Bible study in my case, and how a fundamentalist Protestant approach may differ.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 100
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